My M is wrecked.

[Diokaef]

Originally Posted by lucid

Yes, I think you are wrong on several accounts. The reason I am taking the time to state this is because things like this are more likely to happen when people do as you suggest.

And you did that by saying, "If I had a kid..I would rather give him or her a sport bike than a scooter or moped."

And then when people (not me initially) disagreed, by claiming they didn't have "common sense"?

Did you actually read what you wrote?

I didn't say anything about my background, which is irrelevant. I am merely responding to what you wrote because of the reason I gave above.

This is a discussion forum. On a controversial topic such as this one, there will be strong opinions because these issues affect the safety of all of us. I don't know the OP's specific set of intentions for starting this thread, but once it started, people are free to voice opinion as long as it is related to what has been posted. That said, it is a private site, and the admins can intervene if they want.

This is not "nobody's business" as claimed by Diakoeff because whatever happened happened on a public road. It is ironic that one of his responses to the incident (while trying to shut the discussion down) was "S**** happens," and his sig says, "Speed limits only exist if you get caught." Is that what he would say if he were to lose a family member in such an accident?

This is all very real for the OP, and the passanger, who seems to be fortunately getting better, which I am really glad to hear about. But it is not truly real for people who haven't been affected by something similar. My guess is you would think very differently about most of what you said if you had been touched by something similar personally. I am in no way claiming you don't care, but I am pointing out that one's degree of proximity of something like this changes one's viewpoint on all of this. Unfortunately, I am saying that as someone who has gone through such a transformation.

I don't disagree or agree with you, the only thing that I have to mention is that we could keep this thread clean. I would however be delighted to enter in this conversation in a very personal level with you, if you were to open a separated thread for discussions. Also ironic or not, I do not race or put people in danger on the street, but I do not go by speed limits since they are there for only one reason....,(open for a new thread if you like to get deep on this matter)


SSKE92 I really wish Carlos get better soon, also I was wondering if was Carlos that I met in California with you?

[lucid]

Originally Posted by Diokaef

I don't disagree or agree with you, the only thing that I have to mention is that we could keep this thread clean. I would however be delighted to enter in this conversation in a very personal level with you, if you were to open a separated thread for discussions. Also ironic or not, I do not race or put people in danger on the street, but I do not go by speed limits since they are there for only one reason....,(open for a new thread if you like to get deep on this matter)


SSKE92 I really wish Carlos get better soon, also I was wondering if was Carlos that I met in California with you?

I think this thread is pretty clean actually. Nobody showed disrespect for the people involved as far as I can tell. I never claimed you "race" on public roads. Just quoted what you wrote. If you want to discuss how speed limits on narrow twisty public roads don't have anything to do with public safety, which seems to be what you are implying, shoot me a PM.

[BlackMoupe]

Gio- I believe you met Huan.

[Diokaef]

Originally Posted by SSKE92

Gio- I believe you met Huan.

Yeah I remember now. ;(
Things will get better man.

[gatorfast]

Happy to hear Carlos is doing alright.

[Diokaef]

Originally Posted by lucid

I think this thread is pretty clean actually. Nobody showed disrespect for the people involved as far as I can tell. I never claimed you "race" on public roads. Just quoted what you wrote. If you want to discuss how speed limits on narrow twisty public roads don't have anything to do with public safety, which seems to be what you are implying, shoot me a PM.

Okay I will talk about that. I opened a thread called ring of polemics that we can use for the matter. we may find that opinions will be different in some topics but equal in others. And we can really talk there since no ones life is on the line.

[MZHammer]

Originally Posted by SSKE92

I got to see Carlos for the first time since the accident. He was in great shape. They just reduced his medication and will be taking him out of the Coma over the next few days. I've been spending a lot of time with his 3 siblings this week to keep their minds off things and get them out of the house. He has a very kind and loving family, I love them like my own.

Terrific news. Hope things keep progressing well!

[BruceJ]

Sorry about your friend and your car. Glad he is doing better.

[R32]

sske92: you are a stand-up guy, and your humility and responsibility will carry you far in life. i pray that your friend does well, and that you get through this whole episode stronger for it!

i would just make a comment on car control in this circumstance. as you state, your car would not turn once you started braking. as you may know, when you have spent your "budget" of traction, you have to find traction first before you can expect to control the car again.

once you are sliding, both feet in and leave the road as straight as possible is usually best. the fact that your car shot back across the road once the rears got back on the pavement means that you were working hard to save the situation by countersteering and applying a good bit of throttle. this, i would guess, added quite a bit to your speed at the point of impact.

this brings me to two opinions i would make, one about cars and one about autocross.

first, the m coupe is pretty tail-happy. as we all know, the auto industry is steadily engineering oversteer out of cars. i think learning to oversteer and handle oversteer is the most fun and rewarding part of learning car control, but such things are obviously only appropriately learned on a track. for youths and 99.9% of the population, fwd or awd cars that are practically incapable of oversteer are safer.

second, i think that autocross does not improve road safety. autocross is full of abrupt car inputs. there are no consequences: if you have an off, there is no penalty but to your time. in this case, i wonder if your autocross experience inspired you to try to make a save that wasn't realistic.

track driving i feel improves road safety: you learn to raise your vision far ahead, you learn gradual inputs, you learn to catch and save, you learn to keep the damn car straight until you have enough traction to turn. offs are not usually dangerous, but often result in some cosmetic or suspension damage.

most of all, since i do the occasional track day, i drive like a grandma around town. street driving is so much tamer than track that punching it and tracking out on an onramp no longer holds any appeal.

i know it will likely be months or years before you feel like driving in anything resembling a "spirited" fashion again, but there's no reason why you can't continue to enjoy cars and motorsports! thank you for being a role model: i have gotten my 13 year old son to read this thread as an example of how to handle adversity.

[Huz-Z]

R32: well said.

If you ever find yourself in a similar situation, remember this:

1. Clutch to the floor.
   
2. No brakes.
   
3. No Gas.
   
4. Steer the car to clean pavement. (She will be very sluggish to respond, but she will!!)
   
5. Then use the brakes.

Keep your chin up!

[Kroy]

Originally Posted by SSKE92

I got to see Carlos for the first time since the accident. He was in great shape. They just reduced his medication and will be taking him out of the Coma over the next few days. I've been spending a lot of time with his 3 siblings this week to keep their minds off things and get them out of the house. He has a very kind and loving family, I love them like my own.

That's good to hear.

By the way.. can you edit your OP when you have updates? Hard to search through all the posts to dig out yours. That'll make it much easier for some of us whom are following this thread more sporadically.

[BlackMoupe]

Ya, I'm usually on my phone so no editing

Carlos got his brain activity monitors removed. He's moving around a lot, somewhat responsive to touch and directions. Looking great

[alvinli217]

Originally Posted by SSKE92

Ya, I'm usually on my phone so no editing

Carlos got his brain activity monitors removed. He's moving around a lot, somewhat responsive to touch and directions. Looking great

good news!!!!

glad he is alright man

[l4zy]

[crfine88]

Glad to here things are looking good

[inTgr8r]

That's great news about Carlos!!!!

[Hawkeye]

That is good news. Hopefully he keeps progressing at the same rate!

[Twisted Six]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

That is good news. Hopefully he keeps progressing at the same rate!

x2 !!

[MIKe86]

Any update?

[BlackMoupe]

.

[krnnerdboy]

Sorry to hear brother! I'm sure things have become much more difficult, but try not to find your worth in this incident, and keep your chin up through all circumstances

You will definitely want to seek legal council regarding the D/A as they are pretty ruthless. Character witnesses are key in this type of situations, since there won't be any witnesses of the accident at the time of occurrence.

[burton727]

best wishes go out to you and your friend, can relate and its not fun. but things do get better keep your head up