s54 on the bottle vs the ls3....dun dun dun

[krnnerdboy]

3rd gear pull added
60-65 mph 3rd gear

Ls3 3500rpm
Z4m 4100rpm

[ZStig]

how much does a 50 shot kit like that cost to buy/install and recharge the bottle?

[fr8tdog]

Originally Posted by krnnerdboy

Fr8tdog can probably vouch for the nitrous system being better for dragging but thats all your limited to. The torque curve is similar to what a turbo car would be on race gas tune but better. You can look up my track times in the track section for better comparisons

Now nitrous and s/c would be amazing... Hint hint

I'll get it dialed in for a 100 shot eventually when I head to the dyno, hopefully in a month

The TQ from nitrous is beautiful I had a 75 ZEX wet shot and it was sooo much damn fun!! This kind of nitrous shot is very safe if set up properly. The problem you will see with nitrous and a supercharger will be the tune. I'm having an issue with my smaller pulley with 93 octane. THe tq goes way up to 6000rpm and then it nose dives. You need at least 100 octane to run anything over 7 psi, at least with an ESS kit. So if you throw on nitrous on top of an ESS kit your car will not respond properly without a tune modified for this. Nitrous and the S54 are very happy together! Iron block, forged rods and crank don't hurt either.

[Z4Murder]

info on your nitrous setup?

[fr8tdog]

Originally Posted by Z4Murder

info on your nitrous setup?

KRNNERDBOY...don't mean to thread jack.

My setup is on my garage floor I had a ZEX wet 75 shot.. meaning nitrous and a fuel jet together. I used the recommended jetting by ZEX. I had a WOT switch based off the TPS wire along with a ZEX traction control that basically let's you select which RPM you want nitrous activation and which max RPM you want it to shut off. I feel this is an extremely important safety measure. I would not recommend nitrous activation below 2500 rpm regardless of engine load and shutoff at 7500 max. If your in first gear you can get away with lower rpm activation, but I wouldn't personally do it. So, as long as you have an arming switch it's all automatic and controlled by wide open throttle sensing and rpm you preselect....very safe. I recommend a bottle heater to bring up nitrous bottle psi in the winter or just cool temps in general. you want about 900-1000psi for proper nitrous flow. The Zex system is nice because it will vary fuel based on bottle psi..smart system. I also had an automatic bottle opener, purge switch, bottle heat switch and nitrous arm switch. You want a nitrous psi gauge as well to make sure you have proper psi and it also doubles as quantity gauge. The purge is needed to clear out air in the line so that you get pure nitrous flowing for injection.

THINGS YOU SHOULD KNOW:

1) if you tap into the TPS wire you will eventually experience limp mode issues.... unless you get a line isolator. Zex can provide this.

2) The inline 6 will not get even nitrous/fuel distribution in all cylinders. I think 3 and 6 will be slightly leaner. For this reason you should limit your single fogger WET system to a 75 shot max and 50 is much safer. If you go to 100 or 150 then you better do a Direct port injection system. If you go up to 200 or 250 you better have a 110 LEADED fuel cell for your fuel addition. This is non oxygenated leaded race fuel and this is a must with these high 200 250 nitrous shots. I personally wouldn't go over 200 with stock internals.

3) use a spark plug with a 1 step cooler range for 75 shot or less

4) place nozzle about 6 inches from manifold facing driver seat for best distribution.

5) limit nitrous runs to 10 seconds

6) its a good idea to have a wide band AFR gauge to monitor system health and to keep your AFR's at 12-12.5

7) I recommend an EGT gauge.. but that's just me.

8) I also recommend a lean cut out switch from dyno tune that will shut off your nitrous system if it sees a lean spike

9) I think I got most of the important stuff. KRNNERDBOY can chime in if I missed something. He has had his system for a long time and I'm sure he has a ton of insight.

Sorry for the long post. Cheers

[johanness]

Good to hear u pulled on the Vette OP. I wouldn't have let him get the jump either, so more power to ya!

As for nitrous, a plate system or Direct Port is the only way to go for our cars imo. There's a video here (http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=508192) that shows this system on his Z4M. Looks like with good success too.

So what exactly on our internals are forged?

[fr8tdog]

Originally Posted by johanness

Good to hear u pulled on the Vette OP. I wouldn't have let him get the jump either, so more power to ya!

As for nitrous, a plate system or Direct Port is the only way to go for our cars imo. There's a video here (http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=508192) that shows this system on his Z4M. Looks like with good success too.

So what exactly on our internals are forged?

Direct port is the best way to go for even distribution at higher power levels. if you want to keep the power level low for safety and not suck the bottle dry every 2 days then you are kind of limited to single fogger because of nozzle size limitations. If you spread a 75 shot across 6 cylinders that is about 12 per cylinder and the nozzles become to small. This can be dangerous because then you risk a clogged nozzle being to small. You wont see this on your AFR gauge either. Just some food for thought. I know for a fact that the S54 has a forged steel crank and I've been told and read that the rods are forged. The S54 is pretty much a F'n tank

[pokeybritches]

Thanks for the great info Joe! Nitrous is an unknown for me, although I do have a couple books on it that I've yet to read.

IIRC the pistons are not forged. They're graphite coated though, but I'm not sure why. I haven't looked into it too much. I'm sure there's all kinds of info on google about the benefits of graphite coating, be it temperature or friction properties.

[fr8tdog]

Originally Posted by pokeybritches

Thanks for the great info Joe! Nitrous is an unknown for me, although I do have a couple books on it that I've yet to read.

IIRC the pistons are not forged. They're graphite coated though, but I'm not sure why. I haven't looked into it too much. I'm sure there's all kinds of info on google about the benefits of graphite coating, be it temperature or friction properties.

Cool! no problem. I dove into the nitrous pretty deep when I installed because the motor does have a heavy price tag I'm not sure why they didn't forge the pistons? I'm told the rods are forged and have read this several places. I guess being an 8000+rpm motor the rods need to be strong and of course the forged steel crank is amazing. Iron block and many other personalty parts to this motor make it quite an amazing build. The tuner of my ESS kit explained that the S54 loves it a bit lean up top, which also makes it a more capable nitrous engine. A very intelligent ECU that knows how and when to pull timing makes a 75 shot a walk in the park even for a monkey. Cheers

[fr8tdog]

This is for everyone's reading pleasure. It does talk about steel forged crank and forged steel connecting rods. Enjoy and be proud of this beautiful motor. Cheers guys!



http://www.topspeed.com/cars/bmw/z-s...er-ar1830.html

[pokeybritches]

You are correct in that the rods and crank are forged.

http://www.billswebspace.com/S54S65.htm

I did a little digging on the pistons for those interested:

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...et_coated.aspx

As one sprint car engine builder stated, "I won't install uncoated pistons. The coated ones look so good when they come out of an engine it's hard to believe they've been run for more than a race or two. We're now able to use a set of pistons for a whole year and that really cuts down on maintenance expense."

.......

"Inside an engine, metallic/ceramic coatings are frequently used on piston crowns and valve heads to reduce heat transfer and its attendant power losses. A metallic/ceramic coating material, specifically formulated for high temperature applications, can withstand typical combustion chamber temperatures even though they're only .001" to .0015" thick.

In addition to keeping heat in the chamber where it can produce power, metallic/ceramic coatings, by virtue of the fact that they present a barrier to heat transfer into a piston, reduce skirt expansion. Some engine builders have found enough of a difference in skirt expansion to allow a tightening of piston-to-wall clearances.

The underside of a piston with a coated crown speaks volumes about the effectiveness of thermal barrier coatings. After any length of service, the underside of an uncoated piston typically has a brownish color to it, like the inside of an aluminum pan that has been used for frying. The underside of a coated piston looks brand new because it didn't cook any of the engine oil that contacted it. "

The article also talked about how graphite coating adds an extra layer of protection during oil starvation, though that was with regards to bearings and rods.

[Z4Murder]

alot of good information coming out of this thread. i always go back and forth with nitrous on this car. i know a good bit about nitrous but two things concerned me: 1 being the engine internals, but my worries are aleviated since hearing some of these posts and knowing that i would go with a small shot, probably 75. and 2 being the physical nitrous kit being installed. i didnt want to hack up this car with gauges, bottle mount, etc... not to mention the small enough trunk that we have to work with. hmmmm...

[fr8tdog]

Originally Posted by pokeybritches

You are correct in that the rods and crank are forged.

http://www.billswebspace.com/S54S65.htm

I did a little digging on the pistons for those interested:

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...et_coated.aspx

As one sprint car engine builder stated, "I won't install uncoated pistons. The coated ones look so good when they come out of an engine it's hard to believe they've been run for more than a race or two. We're now able to use a set of pistons for a whole year and that really cuts down on maintenance expense."

.......

"Inside an engine, metallic/ceramic coatings are frequently used on piston crowns and valve heads to reduce heat transfer and its attendant power losses. A metallic/ceramic coating material, specifically formulated for high temperature applications, can withstand typical combustion chamber temperatures even though they're only .001" to .0015" thick.

In addition to keeping heat in the chamber where it can produce power, metallic/ceramic coatings, by virtue of the fact that they present a barrier to heat transfer into a piston, reduce skirt expansion. Some engine builders have found enough of a difference in skirt expansion to allow a tightening of piston-to-wall clearances.

The underside of a piston with a coated crown speaks volumes about the effectiveness of thermal barrier coatings. After any length of service, the underside of an uncoated piston typically has a brownish color to it, like the inside of an aluminum pan that has been used for frying. The underside of a coated piston looks brand new because it didn't cook any of the engine oil that contacted it. "

The article also talked about how graphite coating adds an extra layer of protection during oil starvation, though that was with regards to bearings and rods.

Excellent info..Thanks

[fr8tdog]

Originally Posted by Z4Murder

alot of good information coming out of this thread. i always go back and forth with nitrous on this car. i know a good bit about nitrous but two things concerned me: 1 being the engine internals, but my worries are aleviated since hearing some of these posts and knowing that i would go with a small shot, probably 75. and 2 being the physical nitrous kit being installed. i didnt want to hack up this car with gauges, bottle mount, etc... not to mention the small enough trunk that we have to work with. hmmmm...

I understand your concerns...as I went crazy with the gauges, especially the A pillar I have to laugh at myself on that one. If you decide to do it, at a minimum get a nitrous psi gauge and a wide band. Tons of creative options out there

[Z4Murder]

where do you have the bottle mounted? side of the trunk? i assume you have it on an angle with the nozzle at the top?

[krnnerdboy]

Originally Posted by Z4Murder

where do you have the bottle mounted? side of the trunk? i assume you have it on an angle with the nozzle at the top?

for all of your install questions
http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthre...hlight=nitrous

[fr8tdog]

Originally Posted by Z4Murder

where do you have the bottle mounted? side of the trunk? i assume you have it on an angle with the nozzle at the top?

I've been trying to find a picture of the inside of a nitrous bottle that clearly illustrates the siphon tube inside. I can't find it, but yes make sure you place the bottle so that the siphon tube is at the bottom of the tank as opposed to pointing up. The siphon tube angles down from the nozzle at a 45 degree angle. The best setup would be a bottle that has the nozzle toward the front of the car and the bottom of the tank at the back of the car in parallel direction mounted at an angle. The front(nozzle ) side of tank is mounted higher than the back of the bottle(tank). On the Z4 the trunk is so small that I mounted mine side ways with absolutely zero issues. You can twist the bottle in this case so that the nozzle is turned towards the front of the car so that under acceleration the nitrous flows toward the bottom of the siphon. I never had any issues mounting sideways. Cheers

[fr8tdog]

Originally Posted by krnnerdboy

for all of your install questions
http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthre...hlight=nitrous

Awesome write-up

[Z4Murder]

awesome! good nitrous info. thanks guys

[crfine88]

The surprise in your buddy's voice made me LMAO "God, he is like neck and neck dude!"

Great vids