ESS supercharger VS HPF turbo

[IronZ4M]

a something that made me confused it is actually a question. What would you prefer to have in your car HPF turbo or ESS supercharger? people who already running their cars on ESS if you haven't got ESS supercharger would you go for HPF turbo?

[Endless619]

Once the HPF kit becomes available it will be offered in Stage 1 through Stage 5 so you can count on a 2800-2900 pound coupe with 1100 hp. It will walk all over the M3 if done right and I am talking about a weight reduction Z4MC.

I wouldn't spend money on a SC kit at this point with HPF right down the road. Either way though in all honesty the car will be fast.

Just waiting on the new 2012 Z4MC with twin turbo and 400+ hp. The new M coupe will be a Volkswagon R8 killer for sure....Maybe not the V10 but certainly the V8.

[ZStig]

Beedub will step in and say that the power delivery of the VT2-500 kit matches the original spirit of the car perfectly, basically moving up the torque curve a few notches. Someone here with a VT2-500 ran a 11.8@122, which is up there with what I've seen HPF cars run.

The turbo car will probably be faster from a roll, and on the highway, but it won't have the linear and smooth power delivery.

Still, the ESS VT2-500 kit is $11k, and the HPF kit will be about $16k, with slightly more torque. I see more value in the supercharger kit

Depends on what your goals are for the car. Mine is to beat a stock gen 2 Viper GTS, and have 500rwhp

[MIKe86]

Originally Posted by Roffle Waffle

Beedub will step in and say that the power delivery of the VT2-500 kit matches the original spirit of the car perfectly, basically moving up the torque curve a few notches. Someone here with a VT2-500 ran a 11.8@122, which is up there with what I've seen HPF cars run.

The turbo car will probably be faster from a roll, and on the highway, but it won't have the linear and smooth power delivery.

Still, the ESS VT2-500 kit is $11k, and the HPF kit will be about $16k, with slightly more torque. I see more value in the supercharger kit

Depends on what your goals are for the car. Mine is to beat a stock gen 2 Viper GTS, and have 500rwhp

Under the knife today no? Good luck bud..

[onelove]

I'd prefer a Supercharger on the car, with a proper tuning setup that can be driven at the track hard with no worries about temp or limp modes. HPF would be great, but can't see the power being much fun on the tire widths were limited to.

[krnnerdboy]

I was looking into the hpf m3's for a while, and came to the conclusion that they are more bragging rights cars over track/performance cars. Would I get one hell yes! stage 1 on race gas will likely trap 130 on our cars

[ZStig]

Originally Posted by MIKe86

Under the knife today no? Good luck bud..

yup, thx

[Beedub]

s/c all the way......

short wheel base, big turbo tq = an uncontrollable car, let alone one thats trackable....

now this will get the crows squarking..... the HPF cars are awesome but quite simply from what i see, they are are highway blasters, and dyno queens, theirs now doubt what hpf can do for the s54 which is like germanys 2jz ;-)
Strong block, forged internals, graphite coated pistons from stock, the high compression is the area of concern.... imo unless your building the engine hpf have reliability issues, hell i may have on issues on my ess car but comparing the track records for each company is very revealing, do some research :-)

the ess makes it power very differently to the hpf cars, and in reality each solution is awesome in its own right, i just prefur the way the ess kit delivers power, if i can explain it to you, it simply feels like an engine swap to a high reving v8..... This is my first s/c car after a whole host of turbo beasties, including the ttrs, and r35 gtr....... put it simply.... i wont be buying another turbo car unless its the new 2011 GTR, or the mclaren mp4 12-c..... im completely in love the the s54 with a blower bolted onto it...... its Awesome.

all in all both are awesome, i cant lie, the twin turbo kit they offering for the m3 really does intrigue me!!!! that is fabulous!!

[Beedub]

tom, pics pics pics pics pics pics!!!!!

build thread in engine room NOW!!!!

[ZStig]

I HAVE been taking pics along the way at RMM Motorsports, taken with a phone because the camera is out of town, unfortunately. I will start posting them after tomorrow's progress. So far, the instructions have been very clear, and we can zoom in pretty well on the high-res images. Like I said before, the intercooler brackets are a bit off, which is annoying, but its mounted straight and strong

[BMW Maniac]

Since I own a turbocharged M3, I think the SC is a perfect setup for the Z4M. This car has plenty of get up and go, and all I would want is more power along the curve without changing the characteristics of the power delivery.

I've always wanted a HPF E46 M3, but I want a ESS SC Z4M.

[ZStig]

Originally Posted by BMW Maniac

Since I own a turbocharged M3, I think the SC is a perfect setup for the Z4M. This car has plenty of get up and go, and all I would want is more power along the curve without changing the characteristics of the power delivery.

I've always wanted a HPF E46 M3, but I want a ESS SC Z4M.

very interesting..

[Endless619]

Originally Posted by Beedub

s/c all the way......

short wheel base, big turbo tq = an uncontrollable car, let alone one thats trackable....

now this will get the crows squarking..... the HPF cars are awesome but quite simply from what i see, they are are highway blasters, and dyno queens, theirs now doubt what hpf can do for the s54 which is like germanys 2jz ;-)
Strong block, forged internals, graphite coated pistons from stock, the high compression is the area of concern.... imo unless your building the engine hpf have reliability issues, hell i may have on issues on my ess car but comparing the track records for each company is very revealing, do some research :-)

the ess makes it power very differently to the hpf cars, and in reality each solution is awesome in its own right, i just prefur the way the ess kit delivers power, if i can explain it to you, it simply feels like an engine swap to a high reving v8..... This is my first s/c car after a whole host of turbo beasties, including the ttrs, and r35 gtr....... put it simply.... i wont be buying another turbo car unless its the new 2011 GTR, or the mclaren mp4 12-c..... im completely in love the the s54 with a blower bolted onto it...... its Awesome.

all in all both are awesome, i cant lie, the twin turbo kit they offering for the m3 really does intrigue me!!!! that is fabulous!!

They are about the numbers and high speed passes.

There is a thread on one of the forums comparing the E46 M3 Stage 5 Turbo with the UR Stage 2 Kit for the Lambo Murc. and Lambo Gallardo.
IMO once you get to that level they are insane beasts and the Z4M willl never touch them in a straight line comparison. But I agree with some of you that a SC kit would be smooth delivery and possibly more reliable for the track. If you want straight line speed and top speed HPF is where you stop at.

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by EndlessZ4M

They are about the numbers and high speed passes.

There is a thread on one of the forums comparing the E46 M3 Stage 5 Turbo with the UR Stage 2 Kit for the Lambo Murc. and Lambo Gallardo.
IMO once you get to that level they are insane beasts and the Z4M willl never touch them in a straight line comparison. But I agree with some of you that a SC kit would be smooth delivery and possibly more reliable for the track. If you want straight line speed and top speed HPF is where you stop at.

i agree with you....... but here in europe we are simply not interested in outright straightline speed!! each excels in certain instances!!

[onelove]

Originally Posted by EndlessZ4M

They are about the numbers and high speed passes.

There is a thread on one of the forums comparing the E46 M3 Stage 5 Turbo with the UR Stage 2 Kit for the Lambo Murc. and Lambo Gallardo.
IMO once you get to that level they are insane beasts and the Z4M willl never touch them in a straight line comparison. But I agree with some of you that a SC kit would be smooth delivery and possibly more reliable for the track. If you want straight line speed and top speed HPF is where you stop at.

The problem with the E46 and Z4M turbos at that level is traction. Sure the HPF cars have traction control, but all that's doing is limiting power vs. the Lamborghinis that are at full power in every gear.

I think the SC kits maximize the grip potential of these cars on their stock tires, anything crazier and you need a widebody/ flared fenders for traction anyways.

[ZStig]

There are already traction issues with the ESS VT2-500 kit...

I think the cheapest solution is a 285 wide Bridgestone RE-11 in the rear, using stock bodywork.

Flaring the rear costs about $3000 + paint

[onelove]

Originally Posted by Roffle Waffle

There are already traction issues with the ESS VT2-500 kit...

I think the cheapest solution is a 285 wide Bridgestone RE-11 in the rear, using stock bodywork.

Flaring the rear costs about $3000 + paint

For the turbo cars with 600+hp a 285 likely isn't going to cut it without running a tire that's going to eat itself up after 6-8k miles.

With the right offset a 285 RE-11 might fit with juts a simple at home flare using an eastwood roller. I know I fit my square 275 NT01 in the rear now with ease.

I've owned quite a few 600-1,100hp cars, and quite honestly I'd never do it again without AWD. Anything more than 450-500 on RWD and a proper tire is plenty enough.

[Endless619]

Originally Posted by onelove

The problem with the E46 and Z4M turbos at that level is traction. Sure the HPF cars have traction control, but all that's doing is limiting power vs. the Lamborghinis that are at full power in every gear.

I think the SC kits maximize the grip potential of these cars on their stock tires, anything crazier and you need a widebody/ flared fenders for traction anyways.

I agree with you. Remember most of the real high hp HPF cars are widebody and have crazy wide tires/wheels so traction is not an issue to some degree at that point.

But AWD and 1500 hp is just crazy and at 2900 pounds? I think the most the Stage 5 kit is pushing is 1300 hp on meth/race gas and is a tad over 3000 pounds.

[onelove]

Originally Posted by EndlessZ4M

I agree with you. Remember most of the real high hp HPF cars are widebody and have crazy wide tires/wheels so traction is not an issue to some degree at that point.

But AWD and 1500 hp is just crazy and at 2900 pounds? I think the most the Stage 5 kit is pushing is 1300 hp on meth/race gas and is a tad over 3000 pounds.

Again, event with a 325/50/15 Mickey Thompson drag radial on my Supra with 1,100whp it wouldn't hook until top of 2nd bottom of 3rd gear with full power. Most of these M3s are running much shorter tires that won't even think about hooking that good, beyond that they still handle like shit with such a tire on them.

[RevsPlease]

Personally, If you put a gun to my head and made me choose between big turbo or super charger, for this car, i would choose the S/C. Big turbo setups definitely do not deliver power smoothly, and i feel that this would ruin the driving characteristics of the M. S/C is a better option because it simply (like stated before) moves the TQ curve UP, instead of UP and to the RIGHT with a big turbo. This obviously means smooth power delivery that retains the stock driving characteristics. To each his own anyway i guess. That's just my opinion!

[FerRrari]

N/A

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by FerRrari

N/A

yes...... if its the 458 V8 :-)