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      11-26-2012, 06:55 PM   #1
strokeoluck
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Best HP ROI

Come spring time I'd like to soup up my MR a bit. I already plan on upgrading the exhaust and wheels, but neither one will do much to increase HP. The 330 horses were crazy fun for the first few months, but now I find myself wanting more. So, what are the best bang for the buck options to increase horsepower? Let's say the budget is $1000. FYI I am NOT a do-it-yourselfer. Thanks!
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      11-26-2012, 07:16 PM   #2
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You're not going to get any horses for a paltry one grand. Don't waste you're money on CAI or intake scoops if you're looking for more horsepower; your car will be faster because your wallet is lighter. Speaking of lighter your best way to get more horsepower is reduce the weight of the car by installing racing seats and a lighter exhaust system . Your $1000 budget won't be enough to cover these items. Or go on a diet
Another way to go faster is do a high performance driving school




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Originally Posted by strokeoluck View Post
Come spring time I'd like to soup up my MR a bit. I already plan on upgrading the exhaust and wheels, but neither one will do much to increase HP. The 330 horses were crazy fun for the first few months, but now I find myself wanting more. So, what are the best bang for the buck options to increase horsepower? Let's say the budget is $1000. FYI I am NOT a do-it-yourselfer. Thanks!
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      11-26-2012, 08:55 PM   #3
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Buy used set of euro headers for $650-700 and get them installed since you aren't a DIY'er. Might go over your budget slightly but best bang you will get for that small price. You can then either get coding or relocate the O2's, but that will cost you more money. Or live with the check engine light.

My suggestion. Driver training courses. Fifth Gear did a segment on this. They modified the car with the usual, exhaust chip and tires and the end result was that driver training provided the fastest time.
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      11-26-2012, 09:39 PM   #4
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Reflash and Dyno, 30HP $790.00

http://www.brentuning.com/pricing.html
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      11-26-2012, 11:03 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Shota15 View Post
Reflash and Dyno, 30HP $790.00

http://www.brentuning.com/pricing.html
Thanks, and can you help me understand what this is? What does "reflash" mean?
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      11-27-2012, 01:17 AM   #6
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A flash will not get you 30hp. Flash + headers maybe, but it's still optimistic. I don't think tunes are worth the money unless you also have headers.

The other thing I'd throw out there is 3.91 or 4.10 gears. You can buy the gears and have them installed for less than 1k if you find a good differential shop. Bang for the buck that's probably the highest for under 1k.

Other than that, our engines are extremely efficient. The 2012 porsche cayman R, has a 6 cylinder 3.4 liter engine and it has almost the exact HP/torque figures as the S54, and the S54 is a 3.2 liter engine.

Bang for the buck you're looking at: supercharging > gears > headers > lightening > > > everything else. Ported throttle bodies only provide 8-12+ hp, carbon airbox is only 15hp or so. If these large, expensive but proven engine mods give this little, you can figure out on your own that almost everything else is snake oil.
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      11-27-2012, 06:01 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strokeoluck View Post
Thanks, and can you help me understand what this is? What does "reflash" mean?
Check out their Facebook page, They have a lot of dyno results and video of vehicles they have done. I'm sure there is someone in your area that does the same type of work.

http://www.facebook.com/brentuning
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      11-27-2012, 09:32 AM   #8
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If I'm not mistaken someone got 26hp out of a shop exhaust swapping the middle cats for a 2 in-2 out magnaflow and going straight back to the tips...
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      11-27-2012, 10:53 AM   #9
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If you can't learn to go fast with 300+ hp, adding more won't help.
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      11-27-2012, 01:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirko View Post
My suggestion. Driver training courses. Fifth Gear did a segment on this. They modified the car with the usual, exhaust chip and tires and the end result was that driver training provided the fastest time.
Exactly. When you say you want horsepower ROI, why do you want that ? Are you interested in actually going faster, or just interested in a more impressive Dyno Number?

Their test starts just after the 18 minute mark.

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      11-27-2012, 02:25 PM   #11
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Thumbs up Driver Training Rules

Here's how we do both car control as well as high performance driving schools.

Guess who that is in the IR Z4MC?
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      11-27-2012, 04:02 PM   #12
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How about a high performance pulley kit? Allegedly produces improved low end response and about 15 more horses for $300-$500. Has anyone tried this?
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      11-27-2012, 07:07 PM   #13
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BrenTuning

I had to smile.

Having driven a 2009 Gallardo LP-560-2 (yes it was monster fun - during spirited driving... heck, even around town) I see that $2500 would get me 15 extra HP and 8 extra torque. Really?

Having done the header/hp research like many others on this board...

A set of headers from ///M3AN ONE would be $320 shipped conus including paypal for Stainless and $530 shipped for
Black ceramic coated. Any decent exhaust fab shop can relocate the secondary sensors for another couple hundred at the most.

Alternatively, you can apply the sensor relocation costs to partly cover a tune that ignores the secondary sensors and jazzes it up a bit overall.

I would suggest that would be the best bang for your buck with change left over for trans mounts, a clutch stop, CDV delete, and a fluids upgrade.

Just sayin'

Cheers.

Last edited by EenyBear; 11-27-2012 at 07:16 PM..
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      11-27-2012, 09:00 PM   #14
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headers/tune/gears for $~3k for ~310rwhp

then supercharge if you plan on keeping the car for a while $10k for 420rwhp

and then start upgrading the supercharger kit to 10psi for another $2k or so for 500rwhp

then go low compression build and 16psi upgrade for about $10k for 600rwhp
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      11-28-2012, 11:05 AM   #15
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Thanks guys. I shouldn't have sounded so harsh in my first post, so let me be clear...I love my M. Really, I do. I'd love to get a little more pop out of first gear, and generally want the car to sound a little meaner. I think once I get a new exhaust that will take care of 75% of my desire to get a little more "oomph" feel and sound out of the car. Hey, if we didn't all want "a little more" now and then, there wouldn't be huge demand for breast augmentation...would there?!

My Dad's always been a Vette guy, and I recently saw and heard the 60th anniversary Corvette convertible. No, this is not meant to be a "please compare the Z to the Vette" post. I realize the Vette is raw and his it's downsides. But man, when you hear those 500+ ponies fire up and you watch videos of that thing going around the track, I get a little jealous sometimes. My Dad likes to poke (gentle) fun at my 6-banger, though he admits the Germans did a terrific job building the car. He still can't get over how big the standard brakes are on the M.

I'll have to do some research here on the headers. Whenever my Dad put them on his Vettes I recall them being insanely loud, but I have to believe there are solutions for that these days. There's also a good indie shop I go to so I'll ask them about that option. That might kill two birds with one stone - a few extra HP and some tougher sound.

Thanks guys.
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      12-02-2012, 11:29 AM   #16
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A set of Euro M3 headers on my Z4MC netted 17whp on the dyno and more mid-range torque that was immediately felt by seat-of-pants. I am running stock tune and relocated O2 sensors and even passed NJ inspection (OBD2 readiness) earlier this year without issues.
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      12-02-2012, 04:55 PM   #17
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Depending on your goals, you may get more joy putting that $1k into suspension mods or better rubber.
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      12-02-2012, 11:03 PM   #18
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Had a kid in a newer VW Golf (or so it looked) next to me at a light as we were waiting to turn left onto a two lane on ramp for a hwy bypass. He gunned it when the light turned green, clearly looking for some action, so I obliged. Once I popped it into second gear I went past him on the ramp, but frankly I was surprised at how he stayed relatively close to my bumper through third gear. Once I hit fourth I was putting some distance between us, and then I topped out at 130 in fifth gear (my limit, not the cars). Either he couldn't or wouldn't hit that speed so I finally left him in my dust.

Now, for all I know he had the car subtly modded, but it sure looked fairly stock. Maybe a GTI (do they still make those?) at most. But I guess that's what surprises me a bit about this 330 HP. It feels very spirited when I'm not racing someone...but when it comes time to go head to head, it appears a VW can almost keep up?! Thank God I wasn't next to a 10 year old Mustang! ;-)
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      12-03-2012, 02:17 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strokeoluck View Post
Had a kid in a newer VW Golf (or so it looked) next to me at a light as we were waiting to turn left onto a two lane on ramp for a hwy bypass. He gunned it when the light turned green, clearly looking for some action, so I obliged. Once I popped it into second gear I went past him on the ramp, but frankly I was surprised at how he stayed relatively close to my bumper through third gear. Once I hit fourth I was putting some distance between us, and then I topped out at 130 in fifth gear (my limit, not the cars). Either he couldn't or wouldn't hit that speed so I finally left him in my dust.

Now, for all I know he had the car subtly modded, but it sure looked fairly stock. Maybe a GTI (do they still make those?) at most. But I guess that's what surprises me a bit about this 330 HP. It feels very spirited when I'm not racing someone...but when it comes time to go head to head, it appears a VW can almost keep up?! Thank God I wasn't next to a 10 year old Mustang! ;-)
I've found that there are a lot of cars that are faster straight line than my Z4M. I followed a Mustang Shelby version on a back road and he consistently walked away from me. But he slid around the corners while the Z4M stayed glued to the road. I wouldn't mind 100 more horses to keep up on the straights but I don't like the car enough to supercharge it.
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      12-03-2012, 04:26 PM   #20
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If this is representative of you driving manners on public roads then you would definitely benefit from participating in a club high performance driving school. 130 MPH on a public highway is not only immature it's insane. Grow up.

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Had a kid in a newer VW Golf (or so it looked) next to me at a light as we were waiting to turn left onto a two lane on ramp for a hwy bypass. He gunned it when the light turned green, clearly looking for some action, so I obliged. Once I popped it into second gear I went past him on the ramp, but frankly I was surprised at how he stayed relatively close to my bumper through third gear. Once I hit fourth I was putting some distance between us, and then I topped out at 130 in fifth gear (my limit, not the cars). Either he couldn't or wouldn't hit that speed so I finally left him in my dust.

Now, for all I know he had the car subtly modded, but it sure looked fairly stock. Maybe a GTI (do they still make those?) at most. But I guess that's what surprises me a bit about this 330 HP. It feels very spirited when I'm not racing someone...but when it comes time to go head to head, it appears a VW can almost keep up?! Thank God I wasn't next to a 10 year old Mustang! ;-)
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      12-03-2012, 05:51 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strokeoluck View Post
Had a kid in a newer VW Golf (or so it looked) next to me at a light as we were waiting to turn left onto a two lane on ramp for a hwy bypass. He gunned it when the light turned green, clearly looking for some action, so I obliged. Once I popped it into second gear I went past him on the ramp, but frankly I was surprised at how he stayed relatively close to my bumper through third gear. Once I hit fourth I was putting some distance between us, and then I topped out at 130 in fifth gear (my limit, not the cars). Either he couldn't or wouldn't hit that speed so I finally left him in my dust.

Now, for all I know he had the car subtly modded, but it sure looked fairly stock. Maybe a GTI (do they still make those?) at most. But I guess that's what surprises me a bit about this 330 HP. It feels very spirited when I'm not racing someone...but when it comes time to go head to head, it appears a VW can almost keep up?! Thank God I wasn't next to a 10 year old Mustang! ;-)
That is the DUMBEST measurement of "power" in cars. And while I do not condone "street racing," it's not the street racing part that's dumb.

Did you know that for two cars with a 1 second gap in 0-60 time, the difference, by the time you hit 60 for both cars, is about 1/2 of a car length? Go ahead. Do the math. That means, if say, your MZ4 Coupe is as spec'ed hits 60mph at 4.7 seconds, and the Vee-Dub hits 60mph at 5.7 seconds, by the time you BOTH hit 60 mph his front bumper will be at about your door?

All those internet talks of so-and-so "walking" his opponents by bus-length are all urban legend. No one is walking anyone else by bus-lengths. NO ONE. Walking someone else by bus-lengths is in the realm of cars with 200+ HP difference, or between a guy that has little clue on how to properly launch a car, or a guy who has no interest in staying in it.

Case in point, I once passed a Porsche 996 Turbo S in my puny Z4 3.0i by "OUT-DRAGGING" him down a straight. The HP difference between the two cars was 200+. How is that possible? I tucked into his wake as we exited the turn and I got a slight jump on him. By the end of the LONG straight he was maybe only about 1.5 car length ahead of me, which allowed me to brake extra late and take the pass on the inside (this was with some eggin' on by the chief instructor, otherwise I would have NEVER taken a pass without a point). TWO HUNDRED FREAKIN' HORSES difference.

I laugh every time I read a story about how some idiot "killed" another car by bus lengths, or someone expecting to pull car-X by said car lengths. It is clearly a sign of someone who does not know what they're talking about, has not had enough experience driving cars and drag racing. It can't be done. It doesn't happen. The only time said car beat another car by "bus length" is when car that was beat gave up.
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      12-03-2012, 07:01 PM   #22
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Jim, not arguing the 130 thing. I'm grown up 99.9% of the time and let the teenager in me come out when this kid pulled up alongside of me. I didn't describe the road or traffic situation at the time, but there were very few people out on this four lane road with us. No excuse, but we weren't bobbing and weaving through heavy traffic.

Hack, never did the math but what you're saying makes sense. Makes me feel a little better. Though I'm sure the VW kid still thinks he almost smoked me. ;-)
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