Oil pan woes....

[onebluemcm]

I fear that the threads in the oil pan for the drain plug are about to let loose like the morning after too many burritos and bad potato salad.

I took it in for Insp 1, which all it really netted me was an oil change that wasn't needed and a new air filter. I skirted by with no problems at the dealer because, based on advice from non-dealership people, I was able to identify a specific tech to have do the work.

He said that when he went to remove the plug it unthreaded like it was kind of tight - upon hearing this I instantly was worried that the dealer that did the previous oil change when the car was in the hands of the prior owner f'd the pan threads. The tech said that when he went to put it back it, it tightened down against the seal but didn't feel like it would ever sit tight, like the threads were weakened, mushy. I have no reason to doubt him, very experienced master tech here, and I spoke directly with him about it. It sealed and is not leaking, but I'm not driving it much until we figure this out. He is more worried about future oil changes and having a major thread stripping issue.

This dealer is supposed to be contacting the previous dealer that did the oil change where we suspect the threads got f'd. Evidently, the local dealer has to get them to pay for it - I'm told it's not a warranty issue, it's a we-f'd-up, we'll cover it issue, but it's the other dealer that has to agree to cover it.

Questions:
Does the motor have to be pulled or substantially lifted/disconnected from the car to change the oil pan?
What special or important issues go along with changing the oil pan?

Even though I seem to have found a descent tech, I'm very nervous about this whole problem. He told me he personally pulled 15-20 oil pans on early E46 M3s to do the rod bearing recall work, so I believe that he has the experience to do this.

I'm basically in find-out-all-I-can mode right now. I don't even know if they will follow through on getting the other dealer to compensate for this work. If they do, I want to be fully knowedgable about what could go wrong. If it can be done without having to pull the engine, I may just do it.

Any and all help is well appreciated.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by onebluemcm

I fear that the threads in the oil pan for the drain plug are about to let loose like the morning after too many burritos and bad potato salad.

I took it in for Insp 1, which all it really netted me was an oil change that wasn't needed and a new air filter. I skirted by with no problems at the dealer because, based on advice from non-dealership people, I was able to identify a specific tech to have do the work.

He said that when he went to remove the plug it unthreaded like it was kind of tight - upon hearing this I instantly was worried that the dealer that did the previous oil change when the car was in the hands of the prior owner f'd the pan threads. The tech said that when he went to put it back it, it tightened down against the seal but didn't feel like it would ever sit tight, like the threads were weakened, mushy. I have no reason to doubt him, very experienced master tech here, and I spoke directly with him about it. It sealed and is not leaking, but I'm not driving it much until we figure this out. He is more worried about future oil changes and having a major thread stripping issue.

This dealer is supposed to be contacting the previous dealer that did the oil change where we suspect the threads got f'd. Evidently, the local dealer has to get them to pay for it - I'm told it's not a warranty issue, it's a we-f'd-up, we'll cover it issue, but it's the other dealer that has to agree to cover it.

Questions:
Does the motor have to be pulled or substantially lifted/disconnected from the car to change the oil pan?
What special or important issues go along with changing the oil pan?

Even though I seem to have found a descent tech, I'm very nervous about this whole problem. He told me he personally pulled 15-20 oil pans on early E46 M3s to do the rod bearing recall work, so I believe that he has the experience to do this.

I'm basically in find-out-all-I-can mode right now. I don't even know if they will follow through on getting the other dealer to compensate for this work. If they do, I want to be fully knowedgable about what could go wrong. If it can be done without having to pull the engine, I may just do it.

Any and all help is well appreciated.

To change oil pan, support engine with engine bar, tke out front suspension and subframe, remove power steering pump, Remove bolts and oil pan. Opposite for reinstallation. He probably wont take the subframe completely out though and just drop it down some, it makes it wayyyy easier to do the job right by taking it out completely but really requires a realignment. Technically slacking the subframe also require realignment but it's not as big of a deal.

Almost all drain plugs feel tight, if it was crossthreaded he would have known instantly, maybe they overtightened it and warped the threads some. Very common and unless you're the only one who does it, ever, almost a guarantee.

Cars that have there oil pans removed and replaced in the car ALWAYS leak prematurely, it's impossible to put the gasket on perfectly the first time and not contaminate with oil/seat well on gasket maker.

[onebluemcm]

I was hoping you'd comment.

You state my concerns exactly - leaky pan in the future, a lot of thing have to be disconnected, yikes.

I asked him directly if the threads had been cross threaded. I wish I could have seen them for myself, but he had the oil back in it already. Probably not used to my type of customer, wanting to see things first hand. He said they were not cross threaded, just felt tight as you state. What was odd to him anyway, was that once the plug appeared to be in all the way, it didn't seat like he would expect it to, as if it might just keep on turining. Sounds like what you mention about warped threads.

Any chance this is going to hold up over the years without needing a repair? Even if I'm doing them, it's a touchy thing with an aluminum pan trying to get it just tight enough with out going too far on damaged threads.

Repairs for not doing the whole pan....thoughts? On the E46 M3 forums, I came across a few ideas. On guy tapped it with a SAE 1/2-20 thread and went to a 1/2-20 plug no problems so far but this was recent. I do not think he drilled it, said the 1/2 = 12.7 mm, so he just cut new threads.

Another thing that came up is Time Sert ( http://www.timesert.com ), similar but entirely different that a helicoil, which I know would be bad for this problem. The timesert seems like it could be done without too much problem. Any thoughts on this?

[jdl1pt]

Freakin great!

Sorry to hear about your issue. I had NO CLUE it was such an involved job. On my last oil change I was told that I had a very small leak in the oil pan and I should have it replaced before my warrenty expires. Didn't think it was that big of an issue. What's worse, I just had the car aligned at a local race shop. I'm sure the dealer will only align in back to stock.

Subscribing to your thread, hope it works out for you.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by onebluemcm

I was hoping you'd comment.

You state my concerns exactly - leaky pan in the future, a lot of thing have to be disconnected, yikes.

I asked him directly if the threads had been cross threaded. I wish I could have seen them for myself, but he had the oil back in it already. Probably not used to my type of customer, wanting to see things first hand. He said they were not cross threaded, just felt tight as you state. What was odd to him anyway, was that once the plug appeared to be in all the way, it didn't seat like he would expect it to, as if it might just keep on turining. Sounds like what you mention about warped threads.

Any chance this is going to hold up over the years without needing a repair? Even if I'm doing them, it's a touchy thing with an aluminum pan trying to get it just tight enough with out going too far on damaged threads.

Repairs for not doing the whole pan....thoughts? On the E46 M3 forums, I came across a few ideas. On guy tapped it with a SAE 1/2-20 thread and went to a 1/2-20 plug no problems so far but this was recent. I do not think he drilled it, said the 1/2 = 12.7 mm, so he just cut new threads.

Another thing that came up is Time Sert ( http://www.timesert.com ), similar but entirely different that a helicoil, which I know would be bad for this problem. The timesert seems like it could be done without too much problem. Any thoughts on this?

Lucky for you tapping the oil pan drain is very easy on this oil pan. That's because the oil pump pickup has a removable (easy from the bottom) screen that provides you enough access to stick your whole hand with a towel up into the oil pan to clear any shavings. So if in the future you do need to retap it it can be done without removing the pan.

I'd love to tell you if it was going to hold up, but can't without seeing/feeling it.

[onebluemcm]

Originally Posted by O-cha

Lucky for you tapping the oil pan drain is very easy on this oil pan. That's because the oil pump pickup has a removable (easy from the bottom) screen that provides you enough access to stick your whole hand with a towel up into the oil pan to clear any shavings. So if in the future you do need to retap it it can be done without removing the pan.

I'd love to tell you if it was going to hold up, but can't without seeing/feeling it.

Point taken, I don't even know what it looks or feels like since I didn't do the work this time.

So, if the pick up screen can drop down easy, I am very interested in doing the Time-Sert fix. Metal shavings in the pan were and are my main concern for doing a fix on the car however, sounds like there's not too much to worry about by dropping that screen cover. And, I've got some small inspection tools I can use to probably visually inspect it from the inside to before buttoning it all up. I like the Time-Sert idea because it's then steel threads, much, much less to worry about down the road.

What I really need to know is what the thickness of the pan is where the plug is located. Ordering the Time-Sert kit, you have to know the thickness of the material it's going in to, it cannot be longer than the material is thick because of the way it locks in place. I attached the PDF for how it works in a drain pan app, and the catalog, see what you think if you get a chance - O-cha, or anybody else. I won't be doing this until I either get a leak or the next oil change is due, but I want to be ready.

[SCHMOUPE]

Bumping up this thread

Pulled the car out of storage and did an oil change. Tried to put the new plug in and it spins and spins and spins. Been looking online the past few hours and seems time Serts are the best way forward. Ordering the set now and doing the install next weekend. Sigh

[fdagen]

I bought the car from someone, with the same issue. Had a timecert put in by a reputable Indy. Cost $150 and only took a couple hours. In my opinion BMW oil plugs are junk. I will be using a fluid vac going forward to ensure this doesn't happen again.

[SCHMOUPE]

Originally Posted by fdagen

I bought the car from someone, with the same issue. Had a timecert put in by a reputable Indy. Cost $150 and only took a couple hours. In my opinion BMW oil plugs are junk. I will be using a fluid vac going forward to ensure this doesn't happen again.

Problem for me is the car is sitting on jack stands at my parents without a drop of oil in it. Only way to transport it is via a flatbed. Problem is using aluminum for a part of the car that sees a lot of action ie drain plug. sigh

[fdagen]

I had the same issue. The oil plug though it spun, was still holding oil. I was able to get it off the stands and to the shop with no issue. I just couldn't stand the thought of impending doom. Worse comes to worse, if it's holding oil, put a piece of duct tape over it till you get it to the shop. It's probably fairly snug. I would try it.

[fdagen]

If you don't do the times set completely straight you will need a new oil pan.

[SCHMOUPE]

I am legit scared of moving the car with a loose drain plug. Even if it may be holding oil, if it falls and dumps the oil, I am toast. I ended up buying the time sert kit that has a guide to keep the tap perpendicular to the pan. Will give it a shot next weekend. fingers crossed

[fdagen]

I got it. I wasn't comfortable doing the timecert and I know I didn't strip it so, my car had been like that for a while previously. I tested it quite a bit, and then brought it in. Good luck.

[seank]

You can also upsize the bolt. This is fairly common on all things on M's (see nce 1988) including spark plug threads. That is why it is important to use a torque wrench. Ask me how i know.

You cant upsize the spark plug.

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by SCHMOUPE

Problem for me is the car is sitting on jack stands at my parents without a drop of oil in it. Only way to transport it is via a flatbed. Problem is using aluminum for a part of the car that sees a lot of action ie drain plug. sigh

Originally Posted by fdagen

I had the same issue. The oil plug though it spun, was still holding oil. I was able to get it off the stands and to the shop with no issue. I just couldn't stand the thought of impending doom. Worse comes to worse, if it's holding oil, put a piece of duct tape over it till you get it to the shop. It's probably fairly snug. I would try it.

Sorry to hear that guys!

I had assumed that this problem was due some wrench monkey that over tightened it.
......looks like that's not the case.

I guess is time to rethink about using a topsider.

[fdagen]

The problem was definitely due to some wrench monkey. I bought mine this way. First time I changed the oil I found it. The entire thing is a bad design imho. This wouldn't happen on my jeep. I will be using a top sider to eliminate any possibility of this happening again.

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

Sorry to hear that guys!

I had assumed that this problem was due some wrench monkey that over tightened it.
......looks like that's not the case.

I guess is time to rethink about using a topsider.

[SCHMOUPE]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

Sorry to hear that guys!

I had assumed that this problem was due some wrench monkey that over tightened it.
......looks like that's not the case.

I guess is time to rethink about using a topsider.

I'll say I was the culprit although I have used a torque wrench almost every time. What I didn't know is how delicate the plug and threads are. Shitty design indeed! I was on Amazon just a few hours ago reading reviews on Mityvacs. I think I am going to get one once I am out of this pickle.

[inTgr8r]

^ lol... I was doing the same.
It was pretty hard to draw any conclusions though.
It seamed that many of them develop leaks etc in a relatively short time.

I saw more than one recommendation to get something inexpensive and just toss it when it fails.
Of those, I saw several recommendations for the Pela 6000 in the $60 range.
Eg http://ca.binnacle.com/product_info....oducts_id=3291

IDK what others here are using with good success.

[Reborn_]

For what it's worth, I replaced the oil pan on my rsx (myself) 150k miles ago. Has not ONCE leaked. The RSX uses honda-bond only (liquid gasket) - no physical/solid gasket is used. I wouldn't be too concerned about leaking if you replace the oil pan.

[SCHMOUPE]

Originally Posted by Reborn_

For what it's worth, I replaced the oil pan on my rsx (myself) 150k miles ago. Has not ONCE leaked. The RSX uses honda-bond only (liquid gasket) - no physical/solid gasket is used. I wouldn't be too concerned about leaking if you replace the oil pan.

That's my plan B. The pan itself is 650. Ouch!

[SCHMOUPE]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

^ lol... I was doing the same.
It was pretty hard to draw any conclusions though.
It seamed that many of them develop leaks etc in a relatively short time.

I saw more than one recommendation to get something inexpensive and just toss it when it fails.
Of those, I saw several recommendations for the Pela 6000 in the $60 range.
Eg http://ca.binnacle.com/product_info....oducts_id=3291

IDK what others here are using with good success.

Are we supposed to smoke out of that thing or extract the oil with?

[Reborn_]

Originally Posted by SCHMOUPE

That's my plan B. The pan itself is 650. Ouch!

Ouch indeed!