Cayman GT4 & Z4Mc

[ajw45]

After driving both back to back, I just wanted to remind all my fellow Z4M coupe owners how special the Z4M is! Even with a decade of engineering and advancement between the two cars, the Z4M's mega quick hydraulic steering, S54 engine, design (interior and exterior), and overall driving experience compares favorably with Porsches latest and greatest "driver's car". Sure the GT4 is faster, more competent, and more capable but the Z4M is the more aggressively tuned car (more direct/faster steering, sharper throttle response and more sensitive pedal mapping, shorter gearing, etc) and a more entertaining ride at sensible speeds as a result.

It's too bad BMW doesn't make cars like the Z4M anymore. The E89 got fat and turboed and Porsche is heading in the same direction across their lineup. The classic sports car formula of small coupe + screaming naturally aspirated engine + manual transmission might be gone in a few years so enjoy your Z4Ms!

[Vanne]

Cheers mate, I will

gotta say though, that Cayman sure is nice too

[ga41]

Do you own both or had a test drive with the GT4? I reckon the GT4 is a grower much the Z4M is. Hard to tell a car's character from a quick drive I think..

[Beedub]

ohhh man you NEED to give us more of a review, I'm pretty certain the GT4 is nothing short of insane , I'm trying to find one so i can have a good long drive and really appreciate it. I have to ay on looks alone, the z4m looks better when given some of the tweaks we often do on this site.

[krusty]

Your Z4M looks better than the Cayman GT4. The first Caymans looked super ... the latest incarnation looks a bit bloated.

[CBS]

Originally Posted by krusty

Your Z4M looks better than the Cayman GT4. The first Caymans looked super ... the latest incarnation looks a bit bloated.

+1 however the latest incarnation is HOT on the track!

[CBS]

Originally Posted by ajw45

It's too bad BMW doesn't make cars like the Z4M anymore. The E89 got fat and turboed and Porsche is heading in the same direction across their lineup. The classic sports car formula of small coupe + screaming naturally aspirated engine + manual transmission might be gone in a few years so enjoy your Z4Ms!

I would agree with you - I am finding I am interested more in older models than the newer metal. Cars used to have more heart and soul!

[deemo319]

Interesting.

[pal]

This is a great topic. I absolutely love the idea of the GT4 and consider that to be the Z4MC replacement for me down the line. While your post dampens my excitement for the GT4 while making me want to keep the Z4MC even longer, I suspect the GT4 will shine on track and be quicker than the Z4MC.

[ajw45]

I didn’t mean to take anything away from the GT4, it’s amazing and I can’t stop driving it. It’s just that with all the media hype, raving automotive journalists, and marketing teams working hard to make every new car the most drool worthy ultimate driving machine that’s ever existed, I think it’s great to have some perspective and appreciate how lucky we are to drive the last naturally aspirated straight 6 ///M car. Particularly for this segment of enthusiasts that wants an old fashioned three pedal transmission attached to a gas guzzling high rpm naturally aspirated engine packed into a claustrophobic impractical sports car chassis, is “newer” better?

Full disclaimer, I’ve owned used BMWs all my life (E24 M6, E28 M5, E34 M5, E31 6-speed) so I’m definitely BMW biased and have a handful of auto-x and hpde days on my modified Z4M which isn’t stock so my perspective might be a little skewed. The GT4 is my first new car purchase, ever, and I only have about 2k street miles on it so far.

What I love about the new GT4:

I can’t believe this is an OEM suspension! The PASM adaptive dampers provide amazing control AND comfort even with the monster 20” wheels. At the same time, the stock set-up includes height adjustable coilovers and adjustable sway bars so other than a few shims and adjustable arms, the stock suspension is only a corner balance and aggressive alignment away from track ready. It’s all just a little soft and slow compared to the AST set-up on my Z4M which is really responsive and probably over-sprung at 550/650 but also so much more comfortable and streetable. I get the same occasional spring noises and clunks from the front springs moving around on both cars, cool. The stock Z4M suspension was crap.

Between the amazing suspension and mid-engine balance, the way the GT4 takes a corner is totally confidence inspiring. You sit right in the middle of the car, the front responds happily without a huge iron block sitting over the wheels on corner entry, and mid corner the car’s weight feels evenly distributed between the axles right along the outside line of the car. The Z4M on the other hand is more work to manage the distant feeling front end while sitting over the rear axle which, once you’ve managed the understeer up front, is now clawing every which way on the pavement for grip seemingly happier to swing sideways into oversteer than to actually push the car forward on corner exit. It’s super rewarding to get both ends to work together through the corner but I’m excited to get the mid-engine car on the track next year.

A side effect of the mid/rear engine layout and the transmission being directly connected to the engine is that the whole drivetrain feels more solid and responsive. I didn’t know what having a long driveshaft did to the feel of a car until it was gone but on rev matching, shifting, and on power application the connection between the engine and the rear wheels feels more immediate and direct. The engine also revs faster and more freely than the S54, it feels like the rotating assembly must weighs nothing in the flat 6. Above 4k rpm the engine really rips.

The steering, pedals, and shifter on the GT4 are heavier and more progressive than the Z4M. I hopped into the GT4 and drove away immediately feeling comfortable with the clutch and shifter and never giving them a second thought. It was like I had been driving the car forever. When I first drove the Z4M it made me feel like I didn’t know how to drive a manual with it’s combination of numb clutch and touchy gas pedal. It’s always bugged me that the brake and accelerator pedals felt relatively light and over boosted/sensitive especially compared to the clutch and steering on the Z4M.

Perhaps what makes the GT4 so appealing to me is that all the modifications I might make or already have made to the Z4M were either standard or options on the GT4. Oversized brakes with huge calipers and OEM brake ducts front and rear which I’ll never fade. Carbon fiber fixed back seats to support multi-point harnesses, built in airbags, and no stupid airbag light in the dash from installing aftermarket seats. Switchable exhaust to keep the neighbors happy and scream at the track. Awesome. I'm hoping to spend nothing on aftermarket parts for the car.... though I wouldn't mind some more power....

What I miss in the Z4M:

The steering! I always thought the steering in the Z4M was sorta numb but what makes it amazing is how fast and direct the rack is. There’s zero on play on center and it requires so little angle to get into a turn it’s like a video game. The GT4 might actually improve on the feedback side but it’s a slower ratio and there’s an artificial quality to it. It’s electric and a progressive rack with more boost at low speeds, less at high speeds, which actually gives it some good feel while on the move but it just doesn’t feel as consistent or authentic as the Z4M.

The gearing is stupid long on the GT4. Maybe this is a philosophical debate since the Z4M is geared similar to the E46 M3 and other ///M cars while the GT4 is geared similar to the 997 GT3 and other GT cars so I’m sure Porsche has their reasons but I miss the gearing in the Z4M. Gears 1-4 on the GT4 are way longer (2nd gear tops out at ~87mph!) and 6th is shorter so the low gears are slower and my cruising gear is higher. Go figure. I bet it’s faster on the Nurburging or somewhere else I’ll never drive. The shorter gearing and fatter torque curve on the low end actually makes the S54 feel equal if not more responsive around town under 4k rpm.

The layout and quality of the switchgear in the Z4M is way better. I’m sure I’ll get used to it but the GT4 layout is a crazy flight deck of buttons, most of which I almost never use but the commonly used buttons are the same size as the never used ones. The biggest surprise though is how clicky and cheap the buttons and turn signal stalk feel. In the Z4M all the buttons are soft touch with good travel, in the GT4 everything feels light, has little travel, and comes with a cheap feeling clickiness. This is all the more out of place given how lux the rest of the cabin is draped in alcantara, leather, and (fake) carbon fiber.


Sorry for the long post! Overall the GT4 is a great package and I'm super excited to get some track time with it in the spring. I'm sure it'll be faster on the track than the Z4M while also being the more comfortable road car but for just flat out enjoyment and driving fun, I think both the GT4 and a modded Z4M are up there.

For a fun afternoon drive in the mountains I would feel equally good grabbing the keys to either one.

[ga41]

That's an awesome post. Thanks for writing that. The GT4 is one of my favorite cars and I envy you so bad for having both!

[TexasZed4MC]

I just had a long conversation with another friend of mine about this same subject. The one real car that interest me was the Cayman GT4. I don't like the turbo boosted new M3/4 iterations, though they are wicked fast. I couldn't find anything really close enough to the Z4MC to make any switch to, well without spending over $85k. I know its blasphemy
to utter these words here but the new Mustang GT350R on paper looks promising. but the weight of that car is too much and in reality it is still just another FORD.

[Beedub]

really enjoyed that post and from someone that owns both is for me at least something i take much more seriously than your average journalist.

[jdoublehcubed]

Originally Posted by ajw45

It’s electric and a progressive rack with more boost at low speeds, less at high speeds, which actually gives it some good feel while on the move but it just doesn’t feel as consistent or authentic as the Z4M.

So sick of seeing engineering choices made almost solely for women who can't handle a real steering system. A friend of mine at work just traded his M335 for an M235 (since you can't get a 2 door M335 any more), and he said the electric steering is absolute shit compared to the classic hydraulic setup. For those wondering why anyone would make such a poor decision, the M335 was leased and he had to give it up.


On another note, its amazing how much better your Z4M coupe looks than that Cayman. I mean seriously, there's no comparison. When I opened the page and just glanced at the image I thought you had a mitsubishi evo parked there with the M.

The last generation Cayman was beautiful, I think it actually looks better than the 911 until you go all the way back to the 993 generation, I don't understand what happened with this newer generation. They even managed to make the boxster look halfway decent, and that can't have been easy.

I've started thinking about my next car and there's nothing on the marked that interests me any any reasonable price point. The 2 door hard top convertible M3 looked tempting, but even those are done now. 993 is looking more and more attractive.

[KevinM]

Thanks for the post. Nice comparison between the two cars.

Originally Posted by ajw45

When I first drove the Z4M it made me feel like I didn’t know how to drive a manual with it’s combination of numb clutch and touchy gas pedal.

Just out of curiosity, did you remove the clutch-delay valve (CDV) when you bought your Z4M? Along with a shorter shift knob, this really improved the shifts for me.

Enjoy the GT4 - for the track, it has to be among the best cars out there.

[ajw45]

Awesome, happy to share! It would be great if they just made more of these cars (GT4, GT350r, etc) so we could all walk over to our local dealer for a test drive and find out for ourselves. With the limited production/exclusivity model we instead have to let the journalists tell us what to buy since they're the only one's with access to the cars, and that's only if they play nice. /Rant

Anyway, agree with everyone that there's a pretty limited selection of these kinds of cars in today's market! The sales numbers for small two door coupes are mostly in the toilet across the industry so it's hard to blame the manufacturers for not selling more things no one buys. BMW sold 81 Z4's in the US last month compared with 8433 3 series cars. 81! I can't believe they haven't flat out just killed the Z4 dead. Maybe there just aren't enough real buyers to support building the kinds of cars we’re excited about?

Even though it is totally redundant, I might just keep the Z4Mc. They aren't depreciating much if at all, the shape and layout is classic, it will always be a fun car, and no one makes this kind of car anymore. I wish I had that same perspective with my past cars which have all gone up in value dramatically since I sold them

[pal]

Originally Posted by ajw45

Particularly for this segment of enthusiasts that wants an old fashioned three pedal transmission attached to a gas guzzling high rpm naturally aspirated engine packed into a claustrophobic impractical sports car chassis, is “newer” better?

Your review is what I expected the GT4 to be, esp after instructing a couple of Cayman S drivers recently. Thanks and look fwd. to your track day reviews.

[spiceyxi]

Originally Posted by ajw45

My goal a year or two from now is to re-create a similar photo with a Cayman S/Boxster S and my (wife's) Z4. Great choices and thank you for the write up and comparison.

[007MCoupe]

Originally Posted by ajw45

Sorry for the long post! Overall the GT4 is a great package and I'm super excited to get some track time with it in the spring. I'm sure it'll be faster on the track than the Z4M while also being the more comfortable road car but for just flat out enjoyment and driving fun, I think both the GT4 and a modded Z4M are up there.

For a fun afternoon drive in the mountains I would feel equally good grabbing the keys to either one.

Thanks for that. As everyone has said it's great that you own both cars and can give that sort of review. I've been eyeing the GT4 since it came out when I was still in Germany and now that I'm heading back, I've been doing more than my fair share of "window shopping" online.

You know there's only one way to find out which is faster haha...take both to the track on the same day and drive them both! Assuming you have a friend/significant other you trust to drive one of your babies there and back haha

Did you consider/test drive any other cars before you made the decision on the GT4? Just curious if you have opinions/reviews on anything else.

[Cyclops]

What I find very interesting is that a lot of Mcoupe guys have the pull towards the Cayman. On boxing day I test drove a Cayman GTS and really liked the car. Though it wasn't a GT4, I can say that I'd consider this as my next car but I don't think I'd replace the Coupe. What I like about coupe is just the raw growling power in your ass which you can whip around and feel like your in a race car. The GTS did have an amazing sport exhaust which burped and blurped every time when you eased off the throttle. Also I really liked the red stitched alcentara interior with carbon fiber accents which I would love to bring into the coupe somehow. One day I would love to own both of these together.

[ajw45]

Originally Posted by 007MCoupe

You know there's only one way to find out which is faster haha...take both to the track on the same day and drive them both! Assuming you have a friend/significant other you trust to drive one of your babies there and back haha

Did you consider/test drive any other cars before you made the decision on the GT4? Just curious if you have opinions/reviews on anything else.

Haha, that's an awesome idea. Maybe we'll start with an auto-x in the spring. I didn't test many cars since there really just aren't that many cars available in this category but I did manage to get over to the Porsche roadshow during the summer to drool over a GT4 revving by the tents and toss around the 911 S/GTS and the Cayman S/GTS. They move people through there pretty fast so there's not much time in each car but I came away with a few things that really cemented my decision to keep up the search for a GT4 allocation.

1. Cayman S/GTS - I really couldn't tell the difference between the two. Maybe the GTS felt sharper? Maybe I'm not that good a driver. Both cars were handled great, sold me on the mid-engine platform.

2. 911S was surprisingly bad. It felt the slowest, most lethargic, least fun car out there that day. Do not want.

3. 911 GTS - Similar to the Cayman S vs GTS, I wasn't expecting much difference from the 911S but happily there was a mile of improvement between the S and GTS. The extra HP in the GTS was quite noticeable and it felt like a monster of a 6 cylinder engine. The S54 is great and all but the flat 6 at 430 HP felt almost like a small v8. The GT3 must be ridiculous. It was more exciting than the 911S and (shhhh) still feels like a step up from than the GT4. The extra width/rubber at the rear made it noticeably more grippy at the rear than the 911S but that was really just when I was purposefully throwing the car around like an idiot since the rear-engine is so stable and friendly now compared to the older Porsches.

4. 911 vs. Cayman - Even though the 911 isn't really that much bigger than the Cayman (just a few inches here and there) the Cayman felt/drove smaller, lighter, and sharper. The 911S was a total downer after coming from the Caymans and though the 911 GTS did feel like a special car in the group with that engine, the smaller Cayman seemed like more fun.

On the way home from the roadshow in the Z4M I was struck by how amazing the grip and balance were in the Caymans but disappointed in the power. The S54 felt equally powerful and more responsive and I began to worry the GT4 would feel lazy like the 911S (it doesn't thankfully).

My friend/co-driver and I also couldn't get over how poor an experience the 911S was. Maybe we had a dud, but it seemed insulting given where the MSRP is for those. If the GT4 didn't exist, I think a 911 GTS manual would be a great buy after a year or two of typical 911 depreciation softens the prices a bit.

[Kgolf31]

I've had bad thoughts of selling the Z4M in the future for a GT4. About the only car currently I'd consider replacing the Z4M with. Great post.