Starting issues

rmousir · 03-26-2016, 10:38 AM

Hey Z Peeps!

I am having a problem with my beloved Z.

2006 Z4 3.0 SI auto sport shift with 50k on the car.

For the last year or so, the car would every now and then not start. To resolve this issue I have done the following:

1-Brand new battery with as much power as I could get.

This car seemed to act like the battery was dead so I swapped out the battery and went on. I got the battery that was recommended on this forum. Then it continued to happen.

2-Brand new battery maintainer and use it daily

Again it seemed like the battery was dead so I bought a battery maintainer.

Several months later with the new battery and maintainer every now and then the car does not want to start. Yesterday the car would not start and hasn't started since.

The battery is completely charged. The maintainer is doing the job. The normal lights that come on when you start the car are on. No signs of problems. Then when you go to start the car, nothing. Not even a click. I've tried this in neutral as well (its a auto car) and nothing.

Thoughts there? I am thinking it is time to change the starter. Anything else I need to check?

Thank you very much for any and all comments and suggestions. I want to get my car back on the road now that the weather is great.

Richard.

Westersund · 03-26-2016, 10:47 AM

Either the ignition switch is bad. Common problem and pretty cheap to replace, it's an easy DIY.

Or your starter have gone bad. But I would change the ignition switch first as that is easy to replace and cost way less. The starter is several hours of labor. I know this because I replaced my battery and then starter when I had trouble starting the car. It was the ignition switch.

Vanne · 03-26-2016, 02:27 PM

^^^ what he said ;-)

Roadroach · 03-26-2016, 02:42 PM

Ignition switch. Had same problems with mine in January. My local auto zone actually had the replacement switch. Took me about 10 minutes to replace. There's a diy in the maintenence section.

rmousir · 03-26-2016, 09:33 PM

My part will be in tomorrow morning. Pulled the ignition switch out of the car today by following the DIY in the forum. Great DIY by the way. I will pop in the new one tomorrow. I'll keep you posted. Thanks.

rmousir · 03-27-2016, 12:39 PM

OK.. part came in today. I installed it.. and ..... well now the battery is so dead that the windows don't move, the radio doesn't come on, etch. So I've got the maintainer on again giving the battery a charge.

I mentioned that I've had this problem off and on since I got the car. I believe now that I'll need to use a voltmeter and see if I have a short. I should not need to have my car on a maintainer every day. Something is draining the power.

Any suggestions on how to trace a short in a car? I've never done it before. Hope that I can find this. Other wise I'm trading this car in.

Punisher3.0si · 03-27-2016, 04:28 PM

To check for a parasitic draw you need a dvom or an amp clamp. Wait for an hour with the key out of the ignition and all doors closed or bypassed. For an amp clamp put it around the negative cable at the battery. For a dvom disconnect the negative cable at the battery and put one lead at the battery terminal and the other on the negative cable (in series). Set the meter to DC amps (I recommend 10A) and look at your reading. Expect it to be around 50ma or less. If it's significantly more then you need to start pulling fuses one at a time while watching the meter. The fuse that drops the current to the correct draw is the offending circuit.

rmousir · 03-29-2016, 12:54 PM

Alright folks.. I had the battery tested.. and it checked out. Had it fully charged.. Its set. Put it back in the car.. hooked up the positive and left the neg off. hooked up my meter between the neg and the battery. Had the meter set to show the draw.

pulled the light out of the trunk and out of the glove box (which needs to be open to get to the fuses.

Waited for the interior light to shut off and watched the draw.. if you wait a min or two the draw drops but for the first min or two it sits up about .8 amps.. which is a lot. So I went one by one, pulling fuses and putting them back to see any changes. I ended up pulling a couple fuses, ( I wrote down the numbers) and the amps dropped.. One fuse was for the OBD.. the other one was for lights/temp.

I also discovered that I was missing a fuse according to the manual, and I had a 20 amp fuse in a 30 amp slot. Not sure that had any affect. So I made sure that was corrected.

Then I took a break. All of the fuses were in the car and in the right order and amps according to the documentation. So then I checked the car and the draw was .024 which from my understanding was perfect.. So now I'm really puzzled.

So, I hooked up the battery.. took the car out and drove it. yesterday I checked the amps on the battery (remember everything is hooked up) and its 12.7.. Last night about 12.7.. this morning about 12.3.. I'll check it again this afternoon.. see what it is and go from there.. I expect the amps to drop some with the clock on etc.. I DID NOT TURN ON THE ALARM OR LOCK THE CAR..

I'll check the amps again this afternoon.. I'll be driving the car this evening and I'll check it again.. what I was hopping was that this am the amps would show 10 or 11 or something.

So currently it seems normal.. So still a mystery.

Thoughts?

rmousir · 03-30-2016, 01:01 PM

So the last two days, battery has read 12.4.. no problems starting the car.. have not locked the car or used the alarm.. parked in the garage last night.. battery read is 12.4.. this am the battery reads 11.6 and the car almost doesn't start.

nothing was on last night. What systems will wake up and draw power?

chickdr · 03-30-2016, 01:17 PM

Are you sure the light in your center storage is turning off? Lots of folks have issues with that. You should have a plastic tab at the bottom center of the door to turn the light off. It frequently breaks off. It is hard to see the light on once you close the compartment door.

elerner61 · 03-31-2016, 12:43 PM

If you have navigation, that is also something that will stay on after you shut off the car. What about your trunk light?

rmousir · 04-11-2016, 01:41 PM

Issue has been resolved, at least so far.. The alternator voltage regulator was failing when I had the lights on.. This explained whey it would some days start and some days didn't.. it depended on when I had the lights on. Put in a nice new alternator (actually two, but that is a different story) and haven't had a starting issue since.

elerner61 · 04-11-2016, 02:34 PM

So do we put this in the "crazy/sensitive" Z4 electronics file? Since a voltage producing alternator isn't required to start a car with a fully charged battery a wonky voltage regulator shouldn't matter.

rmousir · 04-11-2016, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elerner61

So do we put this in the "crazy/sensitive" Z4 electronics file? Since a voltage producing alternator isn't required to start a car with a fully charged battery a wonky voltage regulator shouldn't matter.

The only thing I can think of is when I had the lights on, the battery would not charge and some how lost charge. I had the alt tested on two different machines and it only failed on that one part which dealt with the the voltage regulator and when the lights are on.

Finnegan · 04-11-2016, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elerner61

So do we put this in the "crazy/sensitive" Z4 electronics file? Since a voltage producing alternator isn't required to start a car with a fully charged battery a wonky voltage regulator shouldn't matter.

It would appear so!

spiceyxi · 04-11-2016, 10:32 PM

Interesting. Our Z4 is back in the shop being looked at for not starting. Stopped working 2 Thursday nights ago and sent it to the dealer. Replaced the starter (and front thurst bushings) and got the car back the following Tuesday. Together the repairs were $1,700, but thanks to maxcare it cost me $200. However, Saturday we went out and it took 3 tries to start the car. Got to where we were going and then went to leave took another 4-5 tries to start. We kept the car running for hour and took it back to the dealer. Didn't start there either and they are still trying to figure out what the issue is.

I will follow up with what is discovered once I know. Hopefully soon.

We installed an OEM new battery about 3 months ago.

Clearancediver · 04-12-2016, 12:30 AM

You didn't describe how it didn't start... If it did nothing it could be the ignition switch. If it turned over but wouldn't start it might be the crankshaft sensor... A couple possibilities....

Westersund · 04-12-2016, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clearancediver

You didn't describe how it didn't start... If it did nothing it could be the ignition switch. If it turned over but wouldn't start it might be the crankshaft sensor... A couple possibilities....

A faulty ignition switch can cause several different symptoms. In my case the engine started to turn over but the starter shut off before the engine could start.

elerner61 · 04-12-2016, 09:09 AM

The ignition switch fix is so quick and so relatively cheap to do. It should definitely be at the top of the to-do list when starting to trouble shoot.

Westersund · 04-13-2016, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elerner61

The ignition switch fix is so quick and so relatively cheap to do. It should definitely be at the top of the to-do list when starting to trouble shoot.

And even if the ignition switch isn't the culprit it is always good to have a backup since it doesn't cost much and will break down eventually (it seems).

03-26-2016, 10:38 AM	#1
rmousir Private 3 Rep 65 Posts Drives: 2006 Z4 3.0si Join Date: May 2015 Location: Ohio iTrader: (0)	Starting issues Hey Z Peeps! I am having a problem with my beloved Z. 2006 Z4 3.0 SI auto sport shift with 50k on the car. For the last year or so, the car would every now and then not start. To resolve this issue I have done the following: 1-Brand new battery with as much power as I could get. This car seemed to act like the battery was dead so I swapped out the battery and went on. I got the battery that was recommended on this forum. Then it continued to happen. 2-Brand new battery maintainer and use it daily Again it seemed like the battery was dead so I bought a battery maintainer. Several months later with the new battery and maintainer every now and then the car does not want to start. Yesterday the car would not start and hasn't started since. The battery is completely charged. The maintainer is doing the job. The normal lights that come on when you start the car are on. No signs of problems. Then when you go to start the car, nothing. Not even a click. I've tried this in neutral as well (its a auto car) and nothing. Thoughts there? I am thinking it is time to change the starter. Anything else I need to check? Thank you very much for any and all comments and suggestions. I want to get my car back on the road now that the weather is great. Richard.
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03-26-2016, 10:47 AM	#2
Westersund Captain 496 Rep 869 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hallstahammar iTrader: (1)	Either the ignition switch is bad. Common problem and pretty cheap to replace, it's an easy DIY. Or your starter have gone bad. But I would change the ignition switch first as that is easy to replace and cost way less. The starter is several hours of labor. I know this because I replaced my battery and then starter when I had trouble starting the car. It was the ignition switch.
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03-26-2016, 02:27 PM	#3
Vanne Down Under!! 1621 Rep 4,294 Posts Drives: 2007 Z4MC Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Dubai iTrader: (4)	^^^ what he said ;-) __________________ 2007 EuroSpec Z4///MC - Building/Developing Z4 GT3 Powered by
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03-26-2016, 02:42 PM	#4
Roadroach First Lieutenant 165 Rep 305 Posts Drives: 2006 Z4 3.0si coupe w/stick Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Austin, Texas iTrader: (0)	Ignition switch. Had same problems with mine in January. My local auto zone actually had the replacement switch. Took me about 10 minutes to replace. There's a diy in the maintenence section.
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03-26-2016, 09:33 PM	#5
rmousir Private 3 Rep 65 Posts Drives: 2006 Z4 3.0si Join Date: May 2015 Location: Ohio iTrader: (0)	My part will be in tomorrow morning. Pulled the ignition switch out of the car today by following the DIY in the forum. Great DIY by the way. I will pop in the new one tomorrow. I'll keep you posted. Thanks.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-27-2016, 12:39 PM	#6
rmousir Private 3 Rep 65 Posts Drives: 2006 Z4 3.0si Join Date: May 2015 Location: Ohio iTrader: (0)	OK.. part came in today. I installed it.. and ..... well now the battery is so dead that the windows don't move, the radio doesn't come on, etch. So I've got the maintainer on again giving the battery a charge. I mentioned that I've had this problem off and on since I got the car. I believe now that I'll need to use a voltmeter and see if I have a short. I should not need to have my car on a maintainer every day. Something is draining the power. Any suggestions on how to trace a short in a car? I've never done it before. Hope that I can find this. Other wise I'm trading this car in.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-27-2016, 04:28 PM	#7
Punisher3.0si Second Lieutenant 28 Rep 204 Posts Drives: 2007 E86 manual Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Illinois iTrader: (0)	To check for a parasitic draw you need a dvom or an amp clamp. Wait for an hour with the key out of the ignition and all doors closed or bypassed. For an amp clamp put it around the negative cable at the battery. For a dvom disconnect the negative cable at the battery and put one lead at the battery terminal and the other on the negative cable (in series). Set the meter to DC amps (I recommend 10A) and look at your reading. Expect it to be around 50ma or less. If it's significantly more then you need to start pulling fuses one at a time while watching the meter. The fuse that drops the current to the correct draw is the offending circuit.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-29-2016, 12:54 PM	#8
rmousir Private 3 Rep 65 Posts Drives: 2006 Z4 3.0si Join Date: May 2015 Location: Ohio iTrader: (0)	Alright folks.. I had the battery tested.. and it checked out. Had it fully charged.. Its set. Put it back in the car.. hooked up the positive and left the neg off. hooked up my meter between the neg and the battery. Had the meter set to show the draw. pulled the light out of the trunk and out of the glove box (which needs to be open to get to the fuses. Waited for the interior light to shut off and watched the draw.. if you wait a min or two the draw drops but for the first min or two it sits up about .8 amps.. which is a lot. So I went one by one, pulling fuses and putting them back to see any changes. I ended up pulling a couple fuses, ( I wrote down the numbers) and the amps dropped.. One fuse was for the OBD.. the other one was for lights/temp. I also discovered that I was missing a fuse according to the manual, and I had a 20 amp fuse in a 30 amp slot. Not sure that had any affect. So I made sure that was corrected. Then I took a break. All of the fuses were in the car and in the right order and amps according to the documentation. So then I checked the car and the draw was .024 which from my understanding was perfect.. So now I'm really puzzled. So, I hooked up the battery.. took the car out and drove it. yesterday I checked the amps on the battery (remember everything is hooked up) and its 12.7.. Last night about 12.7.. this morning about 12.3.. I'll check it again this afternoon.. see what it is and go from there.. I expect the amps to drop some with the clock on etc.. I DID NOT TURN ON THE ALARM OR LOCK THE CAR.. I'll check the amps again this afternoon.. I'll be driving the car this evening and I'll check it again.. what I was hopping was that this am the amps would show 10 or 11 or something. So currently it seems normal.. So still a mystery. Thoughts?
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03-30-2016, 01:01 PM	#9
rmousir Private 3 Rep 65 Posts Drives: 2006 Z4 3.0si Join Date: May 2015 Location: Ohio iTrader: (0)	So the last two days, battery has read 12.4.. no problems starting the car.. have not locked the car or used the alarm.. parked in the garage last night.. battery read is 12.4.. this am the battery reads 11.6 and the car almost doesn't start. nothing was on last night. What systems will wake up and draw power?
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03-30-2016, 01:17 PM	#10
chickdr Lieutenant Colonel 140 Rep 1,989 Posts Drives: 2006 M Roadster Join Date: May 2009 Location: Buford, GA iTrader: (0)	Are you sure the light in your center storage is turning off? Lots of folks have issues with that. You should have a plastic tab at the bottom center of the door to turn the light off. It frequently breaks off. It is hard to see the light on once you close the compartment door.
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03-31-2016, 12:43 PM	#11
elerner61 Major 157 Rep 1,107 Posts Drives: '07 Z4M Roadster Join Date: May 2011 Location: Mount Kisco, NY iTrader: (0)	If you have navigation, that is also something that will stay on after you shut off the car. What about your trunk light?
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04-11-2016, 01:41 PM	#12
rmousir Private 3 Rep 65 Posts Drives: 2006 Z4 3.0si Join Date: May 2015 Location: Ohio iTrader: (0)	Issue has been resolved, at least so far.. The alternator voltage regulator was failing when I had the lights on.. This explained whey it would some days start and some days didn't.. it depended on when I had the lights on. Put in a nice new alternator (actually two, but that is a different story) and haven't had a starting issue since.
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04-11-2016, 02:34 PM	#13
elerner61 Major 157 Rep 1,107 Posts Drives: '07 Z4M Roadster Join Date: May 2011 Location: Mount Kisco, NY iTrader: (0)	So do we put this in the "crazy/sensitive" Z4 electronics file? Since a voltage producing alternator isn't required to start a car with a fully charged battery a wonky voltage regulator shouldn't matter.
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04-11-2016, 10:32 PM	#16
spiceyxi Second Lieutenant 90 Rep 210 Posts Drives: '08 528i, '06 Z4C & '13 135i Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Orange County, CA iTrader: (0)	Interesting. Our Z4 is back in the shop being looked at for not starting. Stopped working 2 Thursday nights ago and sent it to the dealer. Replaced the starter (and front thurst bushings) and got the car back the following Tuesday. Together the repairs were $1,700, but thanks to maxcare it cost me $200. However, Saturday we went out and it took 3 tries to start the car. Got to where we were going and then went to leave took another 4-5 tries to start. We kept the car running for hour and took it back to the dealer. Didn't start there either and they are still trying to figure out what the issue is. I will follow up with what is discovered once I know. Hopefully soon. We installed an OEM new battery about 3 months ago.
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04-12-2016, 12:30 AM	#17
Clearancediver Lieutenant 86 Rep 406 Posts Drives: 2004 Z4 Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Victoria, BC Canada iTrader: (0)	You didn't describe how it didn't start... If it did nothing it could be the ignition switch. If it turned over but wouldn't start it might be the crankshaft sensor... A couple possibilities.... __________________ Sent from my smart phone...
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04-12-2016, 09:09 AM	#19
elerner61 Major 157 Rep 1,107 Posts Drives: '07 Z4M Roadster Join Date: May 2011 Location: Mount Kisco, NY iTrader: (0)	The ignition switch fix is so quick and so relatively cheap to do. It should definitely be at the top of the to-do list when starting to trouble shoot.
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