ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BMW Z4 Technical Talk > Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain Modifications
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-08-2013, 02:08 PM   #1
kcdedric
Captain
kcdedric's Avatar
United_States
743
Rep
647
Posts

Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Norcal

iTrader: (7)

California Smog

Let's talk tunes and smog in CA...

Is there anyone out there who has catless headers, hasn't relocated the o2 sensors to section 1, AND successfully passed CA smog with only a tune?

Disregard the sniffer test as it no longer applies in CA, but theoretically you would need a tune that both turns down the o2 sensors while still keeping them in a ready state to pass the OBD2 test. I know Evolve and some others are supposed to be able to do this, but I'm hoping to get some conclusive feedback from you guys.

The tune that can do this gets my money
__________________

Le Mans Blue '09 BMW M3 Sedan - Current
Polar Silver '04 Porsche GT3 - Gone
Persian Blue '08 Lotus Exige S240 - Gone
Space Gray/Imola '08 BMW M Coupe - Gone
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2013, 02:14 PM   #2
Devious21
Captain
Devious21's Avatar
No_Country
37
Rep
711
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z4M
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcdedric View Post
Let's talk tunes and smog in CA...

Is there anyone out there who has catless headers, hasn't relocated the o2 sensors to section 1, AND successfully passed CA smog with only a tune?

Disregard the sniffer test as it no longer applies in CA, but theoretically you would need a tune that both turns down the o2 sensors while still keeping them in a ready state to pass the OBD2 test. I know Evolve and some others are supposed to be able to do this, but I'm hoping to get some conclusive feedback from you guys.

The tune that can do this gets my money
I just passed smog last week WITH relocated sensors. The reason I mention it, is because they still did the sniffer (and I barely passed it).

So not sure if shops just aren't aware or what but I'd confirm that you'll be able to smog somewhere without doing the sniffer.
__________________

|Evolve Airbox - Euro Headers - Strömung Exhaust - H&R Coils - 19" BBS CH-R|
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2013, 02:18 PM   #3
kcdedric
Captain
kcdedric's Avatar
United_States
743
Rep
647
Posts

Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Norcal

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devious21 View Post
I just passed smog last week WITH relocated sensors. The reason I mention it, is because they still did the sniffer (and I barely passed it).

So not sure if shops just aren't aware or what but I'd confirm that you'll be able to smog somewhere without doing the sniffer.
Interesting. I know whatever bill it was they passed was due to take effect "Summer 2013." I'm not due for smog until at least mid-2014, but I'm trying to plan ahead.

Are you running a tune?
__________________

Le Mans Blue '09 BMW M3 Sedan - Current
Polar Silver '04 Porsche GT3 - Gone
Persian Blue '08 Lotus Exige S240 - Gone
Space Gray/Imola '08 BMW M Coupe - Gone
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2013, 02:36 PM   #4
Devious21
Captain
Devious21's Avatar
No_Country
37
Rep
711
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z4M
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcdedric View Post
Interesting. I know whatever bill it was they passed was due to take effect "Summer 2013." I'm not due for smog until at least mid-2014, but I'm trying to plan ahead.

Are you running a tune?
At the time of the smog, no. I was stock with just a proper header install.

I am now though.
__________________

|Evolve Airbox - Euro Headers - Strömung Exhaust - H&R Coils - 19" BBS CH-R|
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2013, 02:49 PM   #5
RobMCoupe
Captain
RobMCoupe's Avatar
60
Rep
932
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 M Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (6)

I need smog test in a month. My car is running Euro header cat. Will update the thread with results.
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2013, 02:52 PM   #6
Walkurie
Lieutenant
Walkurie's Avatar
United_States
9
Rep
452
Posts

Drives: 06 M Roadster / 99 Jaguar XK8
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Surf City, CA

iTrader: (2)

Did you do the test with the new box installed? Wondering if they said anything on the visual.
__________________
Vibra Technics engine mounts / Rogue trans mounts / Stoptech brakes / original owner
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2013, 02:57 PM   #7
Devious21
Captain
Devious21's Avatar
No_Country
37
Rep
711
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z4M
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbalutis View Post
Did you do the test with the new box installed? Wondering if they said anything on the visual.
No, I had stock intake at the time. Airbox and tune happened the following weekend.
__________________

|Evolve Airbox - Euro Headers - Strömung Exhaust - H&R Coils - 19" BBS CH-R|
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2013, 07:58 PM   #8
MPowerZ32
Banned
MPowerZ32's Avatar
66
Rep
598
Posts

Drives: Man
Join Date: May 2012

iTrader: (4)

I need to smog in a couple of weeks as well. I'm ESS supercharged and running catless header and stock S pipe. I would not want to have to revert the mods. Is there a chance I can pass the sniffer and readiness tests? Do they still do visual? The manifold and compressor are kinda hard to hide.
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2013, 08:42 PM   #9
Devious21
Captain
Devious21's Avatar
No_Country
37
Rep
711
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z4M
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowerZ32 View Post
I need to smog in a couple of weeks as well. I'm ESS supercharged and running catless header and stock S pipe. I would not want to have to revert the mods. Is there a chance I can pass the sniffer and readiness tests? Do they still do visual? The manifold and compressor are kinda hard to hide.
Did you modify your section 1 (o2 and egt sensors) to prevent SES or did you tune it out?
__________________

|Evolve Airbox - Euro Headers - Strömung Exhaust - H&R Coils - 19" BBS CH-R|
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2013, 09:08 PM   #10
MPowerZ32
Banned
MPowerZ32's Avatar
66
Rep
598
Posts

Drives: Man
Join Date: May 2012

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devious21 View Post
Did you modify your section 1 (o2 and egt sensors) to prevent SES or did you tune it out?
I have AA's catless header. I didn't move O2 and egt. The ESS tune removed the SES.
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2013, 09:25 PM   #11
kcdedric
Captain
kcdedric's Avatar
United_States
743
Rep
647
Posts

Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Norcal

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowerZ32 View Post
I have AA's catless header. I didn't move O2 and egt. The ESS tune removed the SES.
Please report back whether or not the ESS tune allows you to pass. Assuming they miss the blower
__________________

Le Mans Blue '09 BMW M3 Sedan - Current
Polar Silver '04 Porsche GT3 - Gone
Persian Blue '08 Lotus Exige S240 - Gone
Space Gray/Imola '08 BMW M Coupe - Gone
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2013, 11:00 PM   #12
Devious21
Captain
Devious21's Avatar
No_Country
37
Rep
711
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z4M
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowerZ32 View Post
I have AA's catless header. I didn't move O2 and egt. The ESS tune removed the SES.
Pretty sure they just marked your sensors as "not ready". It's like telling your car you don't have the sensors so there's no reason to trigger the SES.

If that's the case, you definitely won't pass smog.
__________________

|Evolve Airbox - Euro Headers - Strömung Exhaust - H&R Coils - 19" BBS CH-R|
Appreciate 0
      10-09-2013, 12:07 AM   #13
Finnegan
Dog Listener
Finnegan's Avatar
United_States
701
Rep
7,850
Posts

Drives: Z4M/. Z3M, E36/46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Teaching the dog to slalom

iTrader: (22)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devious21 View Post
I just passed smog last week WITH relocated sensors. The reason I mention it, is because they still did the sniffer (and I barely passed it).

So not sure if shops just aren't aware or what but I'd confirm that you'll be able to smog somewhere without doing the sniffer.
Great information to have.

If they're doing the sniffer they're doing a visual--at least I'd bet they would.
Appreciate 0
      10-09-2013, 12:11 AM   #14
Devious21
Captain
Devious21's Avatar
No_Country
37
Rep
711
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z4M
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devious21 View Post
I just passed smog last week WITH relocated sensors. The reason I mention it, is because they still did the sniffer (and I barely passed it).

So not sure if shops just aren't aware or what but I'd confirm that you'll be able to smog somewhere without doing the sniffer.
Great information to have.

If they're doing the sniffer they're doing a visual--at least I'd bet they would.
He definitely popped the hood and was looking around in there. He dropped to the ground and took a peek below the car as well.

Luckily, he didn't say anything about my headers missing a set of cats.
__________________

|Evolve Airbox - Euro Headers - Strömung Exhaust - H&R Coils - 19" BBS CH-R|
Appreciate 0
      10-09-2013, 12:42 AM   #15
Finnegan
Dog Listener
Finnegan's Avatar
United_States
701
Rep
7,850
Posts

Drives: Z4M/. Z3M, E36/46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Teaching the dog to slalom

iTrader: (22)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devious21 View Post
He definitely popped the hood and was looking around in there. He dropped to the ground and took a peek below the car as well.

Luckily, he didn't say anything about my headers missing a set of cats.
This is why--especially in CA--Euro headers are a pretty good idea. They look stock (well, are stock in fact).
Appreciate 0
      10-09-2013, 11:51 AM   #16
Incompatible
Major
United_States
55
Rep
1,224
Posts

Drives: 07 AW Z4C 3.0Si
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (1)

Had mine done a month ago and was told by the tech that the state accepts both inspection methods so that all authorized smog inspection stations can be accommodated dependent on the equipment they have. The state does not require an inspection station to purchase the new OBD2 analysis instruments. The tech also mentioned that the shop owner wasn't considering purchasing the OBD2 instrument due to the additional cost and his current setup was working fine for both non and OBD2 cars. Prior to having mine done I called around and didn't find anyone local with the new system.
__________________
If you can't take the time to teach a kid something good, someone will take the time to teach them something bad.
Appreciate 0
      10-09-2013, 11:58 AM   #17
Finnegan
Dog Listener
Finnegan's Avatar
United_States
701
Rep
7,850
Posts

Drives: Z4M/. Z3M, E36/46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Teaching the dog to slalom

iTrader: (22)

^ Which means this OBDII readiness approach is of limited application.

The irony of "the sniffer" is that while a car with mods might pass the tailpipe test it's a no go if it fails the visual.
Appreciate 0
      10-09-2013, 12:14 PM   #18
kcdedric
Captain
kcdedric's Avatar
United_States
743
Rep
647
Posts

Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Norcal

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incompatible View Post
Had mine done a month ago and was told by the tech that the state accepts both inspection methods so that all authorized smog inspection stations can be accommodated dependent on the equipment they have. The state does not require an inspection station to purchase the new OBD2 analysis instruments. The tech also mentioned that the shop owner wasn't considering purchasing the OBD2 instrument due to the additional cost and his current setup was working fine for both non and OBD2 cars. Prior to having mine done I called around and didn't find anyone local with the new system.
So does this mean as long as my car passes the sniffer test and no CEL/codes are showing, I'd be good to go at one of the "old method" shops?

I'm not sure what the current process is, so if someone could school me that would be much appreciated.
__________________

Le Mans Blue '09 BMW M3 Sedan - Current
Polar Silver '04 Porsche GT3 - Gone
Persian Blue '08 Lotus Exige S240 - Gone
Space Gray/Imola '08 BMW M Coupe - Gone
Appreciate 0
      10-09-2013, 01:55 PM   #19
Walkurie
Lieutenant
Walkurie's Avatar
United_States
9
Rep
452
Posts

Drives: 06 M Roadster / 99 Jaguar XK8
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Surf City, CA

iTrader: (2)

He is a link that should help us understand the new rules.

http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResource...arProgram.html
__________________
Vibra Technics engine mounts / Rogue trans mounts / Stoptech brakes / original owner
Appreciate 1
      10-09-2013, 02:06 PM   #20
Devious21
Captain
Devious21's Avatar
No_Country
37
Rep
711
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z4M
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcdedric View Post
So does this mean as long as my car passes the sniffer test and no CEL/codes are showing, I'd be good to go at one of the "old method" shops?

I'm not sure what the current process is, so if someone could school me that would be much appreciated.
There are 3 parts to the typical (old) smog. Visual, Emissions (sniffer) and Functional (CEL and readiness flags).

Visual -Some shops will miss things or won't bother. I wouldn't count on them not finding something though
Emissions - Sniffer test. Self explanitory
Functional - Here's the issue you're going to run into. If you install headers and don't relocate the 02 sensors, you're going to get a CEL (will fail smog). You can resolve CEL by setting certain flags to "Not Ready" (will fail smog).

Tuning off the CEL by marking flags "Not Ready" is so that you don't have a nagging light telling you that the car can't find a sensor that you know isn't there. It's also so that if you get a "real" code, you'll know ASAP (hard to tell if the light is on 24/7). But what it won't do is help you pass smog.

Bottom Line: If you want to pass the Functional part of smog with headers, you'll need to get your section 1 done properly or "find a guy". Maybe there's a tune out there that could fix this but I'm not aware of it. It would need to remove cell and keep all the readiness flags to "ready".
__________________

|Evolve Airbox - Euro Headers - Strömung Exhaust - H&R Coils - 19" BBS CH-R|
Appreciate 0
      10-09-2013, 02:16 PM   #21
kcdedric
Captain
kcdedric's Avatar
United_States
743
Rep
647
Posts

Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Norcal

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devious21 View Post
There are 3 parts to the typical (old) smog. Visual, Emissions (sniffer) and Functional (CEL and readiness flags).

Visual -Some shops will miss things or won't bother. I wouldn't count on them not finding something though
Emissions - Sniffer test. Self explanitory
Functional - Here's the issue you're going to run into. If you install headers and don't relocate the 02 sensors, you're going to get a CEL (will fail smog). You can resolve CEL by setting certain flags to "Not Ready" (will fail smog).

Tuning off the CEL by marking flags "Not Ready" is so that you don't have a nagging light telling you that the car can't find a sensor that you know isn't there. It's also so that if you get a "real" code, you'll know ASAP (hard to tell if the light is on 24/7). But what it won't do is help you pass smog.

Bottom Line: If you want to pass the Functional part of smog with headers, you'll need to get your section 1 done properly or "find a guy". Maybe there's a tune out there that could fix this but I'm not aware of it. It would need to remove cell and keep all the readiness flags to "ready".
Perfect explanation, sir!

Since I don't want to modify my OEM section 1 if at all possible, I suppose I'll just email all of the tuners and see what their methods are.
__________________

Le Mans Blue '09 BMW M3 Sedan - Current
Polar Silver '04 Porsche GT3 - Gone
Persian Blue '08 Lotus Exige S240 - Gone
Space Gray/Imola '08 BMW M Coupe - Gone
Appreciate 0
      10-09-2013, 02:19 PM   #22
Devious21
Captain
Devious21's Avatar
No_Country
37
Rep
711
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z4M
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcdedric View Post
Perfect explanation, sir!

Since I don't want to modify my OEM section 1 if at all possible, I suppose I'll just email all of the tuners and see what their methods are.
Good luck.

Also check out http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=882703 for more info.

You may just want to pick up an OEM Euro Section 1 that doesn't require modification (was already designed to run with catless headers) or buy someones already modified section 1 (There's a few members here that may have a set for sale).
__________________

|Evolve Airbox - Euro Headers - Strömung Exhaust - H&R Coils - 19" BBS CH-R|
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:57 AM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST