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      03-22-2015, 08:10 PM   #1
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Open face vs Full face helmet for autocross

I'm looking to enter my first autocross event this summer, but I'm a total newbie. I'm most likely going to register for the SCCA Starting Line one-day autocross course in Ayer, MA on April 18. They offer the option of adding a Bell open face helmet for $100 or a full face helmet for $200. Which one would you guys recommend? I'm thinking open face would be better because of the better field of vision. I might also join BMWCCA to run with them, but I heard they just changed their helmet requirements. Do you think an open face will be good for autocross for the next several years, or will I eventually need to buy a full face helmet if every org changes their rules?

Also, does it make a difference if I'm in a convertible vs a regular car? I'd be registering for these events in my Z4. I'm assuming the factory roll bar is fine for SCCA and BMWCCA autocross, right?
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      03-22-2015, 11:13 PM   #2
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You can start with an open face but will eventually want a fullface: look cooler and safer. Remember, helmets can do more than protect the brain. Visibility is not a concern with MOST full face helmets.
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      03-23-2015, 08:22 AM   #3
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I'm a germophobe so I figure I'd just get a new helmet from the start instead of renting. I understand the SA2010 will expire in about 5-6 years which is fine because I will likely move onto something else by then. These are my 2 options:

Open face for $100: http://www.saferacer.com/bell-sport-...-racing-helmet
Full face for $200: http://www.saferacer.com/bell-sport-...-racing-helmet
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      03-23-2015, 10:42 AM   #4
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When I tracked my old car, I had an open face helmet. I now ride a motorcycle with a full-face helmet. Don't notice any difference between the two with respect to visibility. If I get back on the track, I will simply wear my moto helmet.
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      03-23-2015, 11:59 AM   #5
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I got a full face helmet. Always had one when I had my motorcycle and besides a small upcharge couldn't see any reason not to get it. I like the extra protection and the vision out of them is good. Go to a shop that sells them and try them on.

Always surprised at the motorcyclists who wear an open face (or even worse none). When I road I always pictured my face hitting the concrete and how much better it would be with the helmet hitting first.
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      03-23-2015, 12:23 PM   #6
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It is much better to have the helmet hit the road... trust me.
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      03-23-2015, 03:32 PM   #7
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Full face helmet, small amount of money for the extra protection.
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      03-23-2015, 04:15 PM   #8
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You're all talking about heads hitting the pavement. This is just a bunch of cones laid out on a retired airstrip. Can you really flip a Z4 over driving on open pavement? I was under the impression I'd just slide around or do a 180 in the worst case scenario. If you guys routinely roll over your Z4 on the track, I'm not sure if I want to autocross anymore LOL.
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      03-23-2015, 05:22 PM   #9
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I don't think anyone is talking about roll-overs.

BUT in the case where you do get into an accident (god forbid), two things you'll need to be aware of. One, the airbag is going to punch you in the face like a heavyweight UFC fighter. If you've never seen the aftermath of an airbag deployment, go look it up. It's not pretty. Airbags are there to save your life, not to prevent injury. Two, there are other things to hit in an accident. It's not that we get into accidents all the time on track or on autocross course, but you want to be protected to the best of your abilities when sh*t hits the fan. I once had a piece of tire rubber hit my face-shield on track, and I drive a coupe with a full-face helmet...I can only imagine what THAT would feel like at 120 mph on track.

All that said, WHAT IS YOUR NOGGIN WORTH? That is the most simple and basic question you must answer. My philosophy? Buy the most EXPENSIVE helmet you can reasonably afford. It's worth it.
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      03-24-2015, 10:54 AM   #10
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If you're autocrossing with one of the recognized groups like SCCA, BMWCCA, or PCA, their course design rules minimize the chances of having anything other than a spin happen. All three of these organizations have an outstanding safety record and that's why they allow either helmet style. Other's have already commented on helmets and airbags, etc. so I'll add an added perspective. With respect to choice of helmet from Starting Line school, I'm fairly certain the Bell open face helmet liner isn't removable (most open face models I've seen aren't). I checked several websites including Bell's and couldn't find where the liner is removable in the full face Sport model either. Particularly since you mentioned you're a bit of a germophobe (me too) unless you can verify the liner in the Bell full face is removable, I'd look at applying the $200 to buying a helmet where the liner can be removed. Even during the relatively short time you'll have the helmet on for autocross, you are going to sweat in the helmet and after a few months of doing that, the helmet will develop a smell similar to your high school gym locker. Being able to remove the liner occasionally and wash the guck out of it greatly extends the usable life of the liner and therefore the helmet. (Woolite works great by the way)
So trying to sum everything up, go with a full face helmet (not needed for autoX, but it offers benefits and access to more demanding events later), buy for fit as much if not more so than price, get one with a removable liner to make the helmet more "habitable" over it's use life. My $0.02 worth.
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      03-24-2015, 12:52 PM   #11
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There are pros and cons to each. Full face has obviously more protection at the expense of weight and cost. Some people feel a little too closed-in/claustrophobic in a full-face helmet. Full face helmets will get you more "street cred" too.

Open helmets are cheaper and lighter. They fit tighter on the cheeks though. A benefit is that it is easy to put on sunglasses or whatever with them on, along with having a drink of water, etc.

I have a convertible and one day I was driving behind a friend on the highway. He floored it and some carbon buildup puffed out of his exhaust and a piece landed in my eye. It was very painful. If this had been on a track and I had been wearing a full-face helmet, I would have been protected.
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      03-25-2015, 12:00 AM   #12
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I have this helmet and love it
http://www.saferacer.com/hjc-motorsp...FYGUfgod66QABA
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      03-25-2015, 07:51 AM   #13
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As someone said above, get one that is comfortable on your head. I had a motorcycle helmet that wasn't and overtime there wasn't anything worse. This would be one of the problems I would have with ordering one or buying it as part of a package.
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      03-25-2015, 05:54 PM   #14
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This helmet is what I'm currently using....

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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      03-25-2015, 10:15 PM   #15
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Regardless of what you choose both will protect your head from injury, when it comes to open face and full face helmet, me preferably I will always choose a full face helmet, most people who buy helmets only think about roll overs and crashes, but hardly ever think about fires. In the case of the open face helmet you can buy a balaclava. Wether you go with a snell or fia rated helmet, both go through their trials and tests. Fia being a world standard and snell being a U.S standard for helmet safety. Never use a motorcycle Hemet, I'm sure you won't most sanctioning bodies are getting tougher with safety. I worked for a safety supplier and some of the products we offered was a full carbon fiber helmet. Really light, really durable. We also offered open face helmets. Both helmets that we offered were custom fit to your head, so there is a helmet out there where you can change the pads to fit snug. I no longer work for that company but I can answer any question you might have regarding helmet safety, I'm not here to sell anything but I do have a good relationship with that company. So any questions feel free to ask.��
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      03-26-2015, 07:47 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokkuman View Post
Regardless of what you choose both will protect your head from injury, when it comes to open face and full face helmet, me preferably I will always choose a full face helmet, most people who buy helmets only think about roll overs and crashes, but hardly ever think about fires. In the case of the open face helmet you can buy a balaclava. Wether you go with a snell or fia rated helmet, both go through their trials and tests. Fia being a world standard and snell being a U.S standard for helmet safety. Never use a motorcycle Hemet, I'm sure you won't most sanctioning bodies are getting tougher with safety. I worked for a safety supplier and some of the products we offered was a full carbon fiber helmet. Really light, really durable. We also offered open face helmets. Both helmets that we offered were custom fit to your head, so there is a helmet out there where you can change the pads to fit snug. I no longer work for that company but I can answer any question you might have regarding helmet safety, I'm not here to sell anything but I do have a good relationship with that company. So any questions feel free to ask.��
Helmet's range in price from $100 to many thousands of dollars. If two helmets meet the same safety standard (both are either open face or both are full face), besides additional features that normally come with the higher priced models (light weight, additional venting, face shield options), would you expect the more expensive model is safer?

In the OP's example he gets a Bell helmet for a reasonable price and it meets current regs. If he bought a helmet for 3 times as much would it be safer? My guess is we really don't know but significantly safer is unlikely.
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      03-26-2015, 08:28 AM   #17
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At the last BMW high performance driving school I attended, we were all wired up with a radio that included an ear piece and mic. An open face helmet would have been easier to adjust the mic, instead of it being smashed to my lips. Also, with a full face you are looking through another piece of plastic in the form of the visor, unless you keep it up but in a coupe it could hit the roof. The other option is to remove it. Also there are lots of professional racing series that allow open face helmets. That being said, I use a full because I ride a moto too and it offers more protection.
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      03-26-2015, 09:13 PM   #18
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Whatever helmet you go with of course it will be safe, compared to not wearing nothing at all. The OP can't go wrong buying a regulation helmet. I honestly am a true believer of, you get what you pay for. wether you get a snell or an Fia rated helmet for say 500 or compared to 1000 dollars, those extra features are what makes your driving experience good or bad. You pay more to have a helmet custom fit to your head, less you have to worry about how uncomfortable it is driving with a helmet, (not everybodies head is the same shape) ,not only do you get those extra features but in all honesty you do get a safer helmet. Most of the lower end helmet models will only do enough to pass the standards and will not exceed them. Some Higher end helmets do go above the standards and offer more comfort. I can share this, the carbon fiber helmet I offered at x company had an expanded polypropylene liner, it would take shock load really well, I have seen some helmets use styrofoam liners. Styrofoam, on impact can possibly only take one hit, as to were the expanded polypropylene liner can take several. When doing these standards testing and you can see them possibly on YouTube or the snell or fia website, you see most of those test only take one impact. They drop the helmet onto different shaped metal objects. They shoot the visor with a pellet gun. Just to see if it pierces the helmet. But let's say you are racing and your car flips. How many times is your helmet going to hit the roll cage or any object that is close to your head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
Helmet's range in price from $100 to many thousands of dollars. If two helmets meet the same safety standard (both are either open face or both are full face), besides additional features that normally come with the higher priced models (light weight, additional venting, face shield options), would you expect the more expensive model is safer?

In the OP's example he gets a Bell helmet for a reasonable price and it meets current regs. If he bought a helmet for 3 times as much would it be safer? My guess is we really don't know but significantly safer is unlikely.
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      03-26-2015, 09:55 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokkuman View Post
Whatever helmet you go with of course it will be safe, compared to not wearing nothing at all. The OP can't go wrong buying a regulation helmet. I honestly am a true believer of, you get what you pay for. wether you get a snell or an Fia rated helmet for say 500 or compared to 1000 dollars, those extra features are what makes your driving experience good or bad. You pay more to have a helmet custom fit to your head, less you have to worry about how uncomfortable it is driving with a helmet, (not everybodies head is the same shape) ,not only do you get those extra features but in all honesty you do get a safer helmet. Most of the lower end helmet models will only do enough to pass the standards and will not exceed them. Some Higher end helmets do go above the standards and offer more comfort. I can share this, the carbon fiber helmet I offered at x company had an expanded polypropylene liner, it would take shock load really well, I have seen some helmets use styrofoam liners. Styrofoam, on impact can possibly only take one hit, as to were the expanded polypropylene liner can take several. When doing these standards testing and you can see them possibly on YouTube or the snell or fia website, you see most of those test only take one impact. They drop the helmet onto different shaped metal objects. They shoot the visor with a pellet gun. Just to see if it pierces the helmet. But let's say you are racing and your car flips. How many times is your helmet going to hit the roll cage or any object that is close to your head.
The YouTube videos show how each test type is conducted but they don't show the full lab ambient temperature test cycle. To pass the Snell SA standard the helmet has to limit the shock level below the acceptance threshold when subjected to 2 impacts against the flat anvil, 2 impacts against the hemispherical anvil, 1 impact against the edge anvil, and 3 impacts against the roll bar anvil all in the upper area of the helmet, and two impacts on the kerb stone anvil in the lower lateral area of the helmet. (M rated helmets get approximately half this number of impacts in their cert test, which is why M rated helmets aren't allowed by many auto event sanctioning bodies.) For the SA rating test they also run a sub set of the impacts on helmets preconditioned to -20C, +50C, and exposed to very strong solvents (50/50 mix of istolulene and isooctane).
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      03-27-2015, 03:35 PM   #20
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Do not assume BMWCCA and SCCA allow Z4's in autocross...check with them unless someone on here knows. BMWCCA does not allow z4's for track days while NASA does. I don't know, but don't show up and be disappointed. By the way, I haven't rolled mine in 13 years of track and time trial events...I wouldn't worry about that for autox.
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      03-27-2015, 05:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekSelmanRacing View Post
Do not assume BMWCCA and SCCA allow Z4's in autocross...check with them unless someone on here knows. BMWCCA does not allow z4's for track days while NASA does. I don't know, but don't show up and be disappointed. By the way, I haven't rolled mine in 13 years of track and time trial events...I wouldn't worry about that for autox.
Both groups allow Z4's in auto cross. SCCA allows any car that meets the height vs. track width threshold in their auto cross events regardless of whether it's a hard or soft top. BMW CCA doesn't allow ANY soft top cars for track days unfortunately. SCCA allows convertibles for PDX events so long as the owners manual states the car has roll over protection. The Z4 meets this requirement.
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      03-27-2015, 05:42 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekSelmanRacing View Post
Do not assume BMWCCA and SCCA allow Z4's in autocross...check with them unless someone on here knows. BMWCCA does not allow z4's for track days while NASA does. I don't know, but don't show up and be disappointed. By the way, I haven't rolled mine in 13 years of track and time trial events...I wouldn't worry about that for autox.
There are no convertible restrictions for auto-cross. I can confirm this.
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