Shifting smoothness advice

[gas-can]

I recently got lost and ended up discovering this really lovely twisty road, which I've been using every sunny day since, even though it doubles my commute .

It's made realize that my shifting (mainly downshifting/heel+toe) is not as smooth as I would like, especially between gears 2 & 3. I have no problems with the physical movements, but I think I'm faulting at matching the revs very accurately. This upsets the car just a bit when the clutch is released.

Question for you guys: what goes through your mind when you downshift (rm& heel+toe)? Do you look at the speed, gear lever, and calculate the next rpm? Do you just blip the throttle and hope for the best?

I'm especially curious with anyone that has driven on a track at higher speeds, where jerkiness could be dangerous...

Any tips/feedback would be welcome. I've already removed the CDV.

Thanks,
gc

[Vanne]

Do not take your eyes from where you want the car to go while shifting. Please..

[dc_wright]

It's a "feel" process that takes practice. When you're on the track at the point where you're doing the heel & toe move as Vanne indicated you don't have time to be looking at gauges or anything but the track and the cars ahead of you.
Err on the side of reving too high. If you're mis-matched its much less upsetting on the chassis to drag the engine down to speed, than it is if you're too low and you get engine braking by accident.

[ShakyDog]

Also with the low end torque of the 3.0i and 3.0Si rethink why you are shifting. Are you down shifting to slow the car or for better exit speed? Do not shift to slow down, use the brakes. Having driven Hondas for so many years, the low end torque took me a while to understand. I also do not think of how to down shift, it just happens.

Steve

[MPLICIT]

CDV delete /thread

[AriuSen]

It's much harder to heel n toe in the streets than at the track where you fully press the brakes

[JJZ4MR]

I'm right there with you as I anticipate doing HPDE's after getting better at autocross ( I've done 2 events now ) As has been suggested to me on this and other forums, take some driving school classes. I also have watched some great You Tube videos that use split screens to show 1) road ahead mounted GoPro 2) close up of clutch/brake/gas pedals 3) Tach...all on one screen. It helps to see this all at once, on a track with an experienced driver who has great heel-toe abilities. There are also aftermarket pedals with different designs to make reaching the brake/gas easier. I've been practicing on some sharp turns in a somewhat rural road near me, doing it slowly just to try and get it smooth and having it become smooth and more natural. I do agree with previous post, it's hard to do on the street, because you don't want heel toe to slow, you want it to exit fast. I've always downshifted to use the engine to slow down, so it's a learning process.

[seank]

Originally Posted by gas-can

I recently got lost and ended up discovering this really lovely twisty road, which I've been using every sunny day since, even though it doubles my commute .

It's made realize that my shifting (mainly downshifting/heel+toe) is not as smooth as I would like, especially between gears 2 & 3. I have no problems with the physical movements, but I think I'm faulting at matching the revs very accurately. This upsets the car just a bit when the clutch is released.

Question for you guys: what goes through your mind when you downshift (rm& heel+toe)? Do you look at the speed, gear lever, and calculate the next rpm? Do you just blip the throttle and hope for the best?

I'm especially curious with anyone that has driven on a track at higher speeds, where jerkiness could be dangerous...

Any tips/feedback would be welcome. I've already removed the CDV.

Thanks,
gc

When done properly, nothing should go through your mind. You need to practice till you dont know another way. It is how I drive all cars. After that, you can work on your left foot braking. Practice, practice. It will take year or years to do real well.

[dc_wright]

Originally Posted by AriuSen

It's much harder to heel n toe in the streets than at the track where you fully press the brakes

^This^

You'll be on the brakes much harder on the track so the brake pedal will be much farther down than it will be driving on the street.

[gas-can]

Thanks everyone. Lots of good tips.

So to re-iterate:

1. It's a feel thing - don't look at any of the dials (on track) or try to calculate things on the fly (unless you're near Vanne)
2. It's easier on the track b/c brakes are usually fully depressed
3. Overshooting RPMs is better than being too low

I've noticed that I'm doing better this week than last. I think the practice everyday on that little road has indeed helped with the muscle memory.

Thanks again. A big positive about these cars is the access to this Forum

-gc

[Vanne]

Lol, you won't be near me, I'll be at the back of the pack. I can't drive my way out of a wet paper bag. But I am learning

[Boosted 1]

I couldn't do it well until I got exhaust! Cdv delete helped and so did rogue bushings and royal purple.

[Swashplate]

Originally Posted by Vanne

Lol, you won't be near me, I'll be at the back of the pack. I can't drive my way out of a wet paper bag. But I am learning

Don't sell yourself so short! Wet paperbag I am sure is possible...a dry one, now that's a different story

[JJZ4MR]

Did you go RP tranny or diff ? Is the Synchromesh 75-140 ? I'm about to do a complete fluid change/flush. Tranny/Diff/Cooling/Brakes/Clutch/Power Steering....trying to gather info on liquids used and DIY info...Love My New Car ! Hoping new tranny/diff makes things even smoother, also giving some thought to ZHP short throw shifter, I've read some good stuff on the feel of the shift with the change. Check out Clutch Stop..$ 10.00 - GREAT MOD ! Ultimate Pedals has options for Heel Extension and Toe Extension and some peeps go with this and love it.

[dc_wright]

Originally Posted by gas-can

Thanks everyone. Lots of good tips.

So to re-iterate:

1. It's a feel thing - don't look at any of the dials (on track) or try to calculate things on the fly (unless you're near Vanne)
   
2. It's easier on the track b/c brakes are usually fully depressed
3. Overshooting RPMs is better than being too low

I've noticed that I'm doing better this week than last. I think the practice everyday on that little road has indeed helped with the muscle memory.

Thanks again. A big positive about these cars is the access to this Forum

-gc

Not necessarily easier, just different. If you're able to truly heel & toe then you'll need to lift your foot much higher to get to the accelerator pedal because you'll be coming off a much lower brake pedal point. If you roll your foot like I have to do (feet like snow shoes) you'll be on the brake pedal with the left side of the ball of your foot so you can roll the right side of your foot onto the gas pedal. In street driving you can be pretty flat footed on the brake pedal and still roll over to the gas pedal.