ESS VT2-500 Supercharger Kit Installed! Impressions, pictures, video.

[ZStig]

Return those headers, not worth the hassle of the repair. I don't think they're even repairable back to 100%

do you want me to lend you my stock headers in the meantime?

[iPhoneEngineer]

K so I got in touch with the seller, who is very surprised at the dents and not only insists they weren't there when he shipped them, but offered to give me a refund if I send them back. That's about as well as I could have hoped it to go, but unfortunately I still see ABSOLUTELY NO WAY this type of damage could have been incurred in shipping. The box was externally in good condition (no obvious damage), the entire thing was filled with packing peanuts, and each header was fully wrapped in 2-3 layers of the thick kind of bubble wrap. If you look at the damage, in particular there is one dent I don't even understand occurring if it were dropped, like the flat bits imply.

I did get a photo before they were shipped, but it is only a 320 x 240 iPhone photo in which they look fine. Upon extremely close inspection I can't be certain whether or not they were dented in the photo.

Any more opinions on if they are reparable? Shipping was like $80 for the sender, and I would obviously have to push back the install date even further if I have to source the headers again. Roffle, thanks for the offer but I actually still have my USDM headers--maybe I should just use the fuckers and completely abandon the catless / sensor relocation strategy?

At least the cracked windshield (http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=578204) is being replaced with OEM on Wednesday. Also, today the "8PSI" pulley shipped out from Norway, amazingly scheduled to arrive Sept 1st.

[ZStig]

To repair them, they may have to pack them with sand, heat them, and then somehow pound on them until the sand evens things out. Or they may use a hammer somehow. Anyway, it would probably weaken the overall structure, and the un-even mounting point is another thing that may never be perfect

I think the seller was just hoping you were an idiot

[ZStig]

If you have the time/patience/skill, I'd try running it with stock headers. I mean... what if ESS is wrong, and the headers are not causing the deceleration issue?

[iPhoneEngineer]

Originally Posted by Roffle Waffle

If you have the time/patience/skill, I'd try running it with stock headers. I mean... what if ESS is wrong, and the headers are not causing the deceleration issue?

Yeah, I've been worried about ESS being wrong about that the entire time, thus my personal sense of urgency to get the swap done so I can know for sure.

I wish all the damn hardware to do the header swap wasn't so expensive. This is the second set of torque-to-yield bolts, gaskets, etc I've ordered and I don't really want to swap the headers a THIRD time if I were to try the USDM ones again. Honestly as I've said I would not be very worried about losing some power, but am concerned about all the heat retention under the hood.

I'm certainly tempted by the fact that I could do the header swap myself this weekend with the replacement hardware that I rush-shipped to get the CSL headers in. It would certainly be easier than my first attempt at the job doing the AA headers, but still a huge pain in the ass. It's probably best to hold off until I have some CSL headers that are suitable to put on the car.

Anyone want to make an argument for why I should stick with the USDM headers? I could be a sorta-green-friendly supercharged car! lol.

[ZStig]

screw the environment! No reason to leave 20rwhp on the table

I'd think you can easily re-use the "consumables" for the install, since they're so fresh

[Beedub]

arhhhh probably alittle politically correct but i cant ever say screw the environment, i think we all have a duty to look after our world otherwise it wont look after us.... hurricane irene anyone????......

Relly though catted headers make no sense with this car imo you'll loose good power, catted headers in this application with boost im guessing would add a good amount of underbonnet heat.

the design of the thin wall csl is awesome, very light and very free flowing, would you like me to source something this side and get it over to you??? i do agree though what if the headers arnt the problem??? personally id leave that as a last option, especially as others have different branded headers working with the vt2-500.

[Beedub]

wierd thing is soo many CSL headers that are removed have this damage to them or very similar damage, im guessing removing them isnt easy, its always on the last runner.

[iPhoneEngineer]

Originally Posted by Beedub

arhhhh probably alittle politically correct but i cant ever say screw the environment, i think we all have a duty to look after our world otherwise it wont look after us.... hurricane irene anyone????......

Relly though catted headers make no sense with this car imo you'll loose good power, catted headers in this application with boost im guessing would add a good amount of underbonnet heat.

the design of the thin wall csl is awesome, very light and very free flowing, would you like me to source something this side and get it over to you??? i do agree though what if the headers arnt the problem??? personally id leave that as a last option, especially as others have different branded headers working with the vt2-500.

Re: the environment aside, at least I have the secondary cats which do light up plenty once the car is warm. Cold start however...lol.

Are Roffle and you suggesting that I try the USDM ones because if they don't solve the hesitation, purchasing the CSL ones and doing the Section 1 modification was pointless? While that's true, doing the header swap a second time is probably overall more work than the fussing around trying to find a new set of CSL headers, sending back the dented set, and then trying to sell the AA headers. I'm really not sure what to do.

About this damage being common on CSL headers--interesting because my shop also just told me that they've seen very similar damage before as well, and in that guy's case he also had to send them back and source different ones. So far no one has told me "oh yeah man, np, we can fix those".

[eunosracr]

Originally Posted by iPhoneEngineer

OEM CSL headers arrived today.

The Good: they seem exceptionally well-designed, at least as light (subjectively) as the Active Autowerke headers. I really wanted to avoid the sensor relocation but it looks like these are definitely the best way to go for an Alpha-N tune like the VT series.

The Bad: the rearmost runner coming from cylinder 6 is pretty severely dented. The seller (member of this forum) completely failed to mention any damage to the headers. The headers were exceptionally well-packed and damage definitely did not occur during shipping. The triangular mount where it bolts on for #6 is not even flush, which would certainly cause an exhaust leak. I will have to get it repaired as well as possible ASAP before the installation on Thursday. This is concerning particularly because the metal of this part of the headers (before the collector) is very thin. However, I am not comfortable installing them as-is because it could cause a hot-spot in the headers or even inside the combustion chamber. Less unexpected, one of the gaskets to Section 1 is baked onto one of the headers (still trying to get it off, it's just flaking) and all of the triangle bits need to be thoroughly cleaned as well. Perhaps most bizarrely, one of the headers had a /narrowband/ oxygen loosely mounted in it...lol.

If anyone from the Bay Area happens to read this and knows of a good metal shop that might be able to repair them, please PM me.

Call me crazy but i do not think those headers are damaged. I have seen enough stock BMW parts in my life to recognize factory bends and flat spots. Look at our X Pipe, the crush bends look very similar to that. Plus a lot of the pictures i have seen of CSL headers online have the exact same flat spots and bends in the same exact areas (those are not coincidences). I would do some more research on these things before giving up on them. I would not try fixing them as I do not think they are damaged. Read the link below. The reason the flat spots are there are for clearance. Plus the metal around that area would be all scuffed up. It looks pretty clean.

http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=248739

[iPhoneEngineer]

Originally Posted by eunosracr

Call me crazy but i do not think those headers are damaged. I have seen enough stock BMW parts in my life to recognize factory bends and flat spots. Look at our X Pipe, the crush bends look very similar to that. Plus a lot of the pictures i have seen of CSL headers online have the exact same flat spots and bends in the same exact areas (those are not coincidences). I would do some more research on these things before giving up on them. I would not try fixing them as I do not think they are damaged. Read the link below. The reason the flat spots are there are for clearance. Plus the metal around that area would be all scuffed up. It looks pretty clean.

http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=248739

Most of the pictures on that thread you linked won't load...

I agree the flat spot looks almost as though it was supposed to be that way. BUT--the CREASED area does not look like something that could reasonably have been done during manufacturing. Even more obviously, the triangular flange is bent and there is no way it could sit flush.

The seller went to the point where he shipped the headers, and apparently the attendant who packed them /without the seller's supervision/ seemed nervous as he inquired about the damage. He denied it, but it seems pretty clear that the damage was done during packing after they were dropped off. The seller says the packing guy was a college kid and he'd rather eat the loss than risk the kid's job over the matter--a noble position, but I'd rather see the shipping company pay for it.

Anyone else have pictures of CSL headers that have these creases and flat spots on them?

[eunosracr]

Originally Posted by iPhoneEngineer

Most of the pictures on that thread you linked won't load...

I agree the flat spot looks almost as though it was supposed to be that way. BUT--the CREASED area does not look like something that could reasonably have been done during manufacturing. Even more obviously, the triangular flange is bent and there is no way it could sit flush.

The seller went to the point where he shipped the headers, and apparently the attendant who packed them /without the seller's supervision/ seemed nervous as he inquired about the damage. He denied it, but it seems pretty clear that the damage was done during packing after they were dropped off. The seller says the packing guy was a college kid and he'd rather eat the loss than risk the kid's job over the matter--a noble position, but I'd rather see the shipping company pay for it.

Anyone else have pictures of CSL headers that have these creases and flat spots on them?

I could be wrong. The flange should definitely sit flush. Will PM you a few links.

[iPhoneEngineer]

Originally Posted by eunosracr

I could be wrong. The flange should definitely sit flush. Will PM you a few links.

I agree that the flat spot is normal--which I didn't know before seeing your links--but the other couple dents do not appear to be in the other photos, nor would I expect them to be normal. The flat spot must be what I've heard described as being present on the RHD cars' headers, as it was necessary to clear the steering column.

My metalworking friend got back to me and after examining the headers in person, believes it would take a "master-level" worker to properly fix the damage (which he doesn't consider himself to be). The steel is just too thin and it would likely be punctured or torn during a repair.

krnnerdboy has come to the rescue with a pretty unbeatable offer on some non-CSL Euro headers that appear to be in good condition, and since he's located in Southern California, they shouldn't be as expensive or take as long to ship. I will however have to postpone the header swap until next week. I thought about reinstalling the USDM stuff this weekend, but really don't think it's worth it because Euro is where I want the setup to be and waiting just 4-5 more days will allow that to be done all at once with fresh hardware. If they aren't really the cause of the hesitation, at least I will be running completely ESS-approved equipment.

[eunosracr]

Good plan

[iPhoneEngineer]

OK, wow. Krnnerdboy didn't charge me a dime for shipping (on top of the bomb $650 price for the non-CSL headers), yet made sure they will arrive by Friday (2-day shipping)! Truly fantastic!

My tentative plan in light of this:
- install them myself this weekend, saving several hundred bucks in labor
- wait for the EGT bung to arrive next week, then have the USDM Section 1 modification and sensor relocation done all at once by the shop

Meanwhile I got the damaged set boxed up and shipped back to the sender, who is going to use them for his own car...I guess we'll find out if the damage results in a burnt exhaust valve after all...

[gcochard]

Originally Posted by iPhoneEngineer

OK, wow. Krnnerdboy didn't charge me a dime for shipping (on top of the bomb $650 price for the non-CSL headers), yet made sure they will arrive by Friday (2-day shipping)! Truly fantastic!

I met him in person, great guy.

As for the catless problem, do you have an "understanding" worked out with your smog guy?

[iPhoneEngineer]

I will handle smog when the time comes. I'll have USDM headers in functioning condition if necessary, but have gotten a Supra that shouldn't have passed visual inspection cleared--twice.

[Beedub]

lots of clips for you guys from my track work today, check media/pics section :-)

[iPhoneEngineer]

Got the replacement Euro headers today--wow, something went right! I was expecting the FedEx guy not to leave the package or something despite my note pleading him to leave it (I wasn't sure if it required a signature). On the other hand, BMW will have had my car for 72 hours by the time I can pick it up with the new windshield tomorrow morning (it was supposed to take 24).

I also received the "8PSI" pulley today. Beedub, I'm wondering if this pulley is the same size as yours or possibly even smaller...it is about 3.1in/78mm.

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by iPhoneEngineer

Got the replacement Euro headers today--wow, something went right! I was expecting the FedEx guy not to leave the package or something despite my note pleading him to leave it (I wasn't sure if it required a signature). On the other hand, BMW will have had my car for 72 hours by the time I can pick it up with the new windshield tomorrow morning (it was supposed to take 24).

I also received the "8PSI" pulley today. Beedub, I'm wondering if this pulley is the same size as yours or possibly even smaller...it is about 3.1in/78mm.

78mm is Definatly smaller mine is about 82.5mm your pulley is vt2-550 spec :-)

[iPhoneEngineer]

New Euro headers are on, and most of the nuts tightened down, but still don't have the reinforcement plate or air pump back on. I'm waiting for an answer here: http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=581216

Hopefully someone responds by tomorrow morning because I really want to finish the job and give the car a thorough test drive...but if I reinstall the axel reinforcement plate and have the O2 ordering wrong, it will be extremely difficult to swap them without removing the plate, and I have only one set of new torque-to-yield (one time use) bolts.

[iPhoneEngineer]

Headers installed, out right now after my first drive. There is an SES light but no limp mode. Will read codes when I get home and further test hesitation on the way up the hill.