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      05-19-2015, 04:53 PM   #1
trevor
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Confusion on Driving a Manual Transmission

So I have been driving a manual transmission for a few months and gotten pretty good at it. Driving smoothly and never stall, I even worked on the following driving habits after reading a lot of forums on optimal driving. My 2001 525i is manual and I seem to be getting 15 mpg from it when I expected about 20 mpg from city. Not much highway so I think that may be why, in city, I use the clutch a lot. Please let me know what you think of my driving habits based on my research.


1. Only use clutch pressed in when stopping for at most 5 seconds, if longer, I shift into neutral and let clutch go.
2. I do not downshift unless I would be jumping more than 2 gears (like after a turn, etc.) and accelerate normally.
3. No more burning clutch smell (actually not even once since I bought the car last week) so I am getting off the clutch properly from what I can tell.
4. If I am coming to a stop, I wait till I am around 5-10 mpg before shifting into neutral because I heard riding the clutch to control speed is bad.

Thanks in advance!
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      05-26-2015, 09:42 AM   #2
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I'd be interested to hear other people's opinions too. I've been driving stick for most of my adult life, but I never had any official driving lessons so I have no idea what "best practice" is either. For example what do you do when you come to a stop light on a hill? Do you always shift sequentially from 1-2-3-4 or is it okay to skip a gear, from 1-2-4, due to laziness? What do you do in stop and go traffic? Hold down the clutch for 15 min or keep switching between 1st, 2nd and neutral?

1. I do this too
2. What's wrong with downshifting just 1 gear on say, a wide left turn where you're not losing too much speed?
4. If I'm coming to a stop I usually just pop it into neutral and coast until I need to hit the brakes.
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      05-26-2015, 01:43 PM   #3
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I am curious on if coasting is bad. I hear people say coasting is bad, but they don't say why. I think they just imply that I can't take advantage of engine breaking, but is there any negative side effect to my car for coasting?
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      05-26-2015, 01:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trevor View Post
I am curious on if coasting is bad. I hear people say coasting is bad, but they don't say why. I think they just imply that I can't take advantage of engine breaking, but is there any negative side effect to my car for coasting?
When people say coasting is bad, it's in reference to the fact that you're not in gear; hence you don't have as much control over the car if you need to make a sudden maneuver to avoid an accident. I've heard it's illegal to coast in neutral in some states.
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      05-26-2015, 01:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trevor View Post
I am curious on if coasting is bad. I hear people say coasting is bad, but they don't say why. I think they just imply that I can't take advantage of engine breaking, but is there any negative side effect to my car for coasting?
Coasting is bad in that your driveline is disengaged. Should you REQUIRE power at any time to escape from a bad situation, you can not accelerate. Plus, should something happen in front of you, like a kid jumping out in the street, should you swerve in neutral, you WILL likely lose control of your vehicle as oppose to being under power.

Coasting in neutral is bad from a safety perspective.
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      05-26-2015, 04:14 PM   #6
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Yep, learn to rev match and heel-toe and always be in the proper gear while the car is in motion.
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      05-26-2015, 09:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itdnwiwbp View Post
Yep, learn to rev match and heel-toe and always be in the proper gear while the car is in motion.
What good is heel-to for everyday driving while trying to save your clutch?
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      05-26-2015, 09:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twixboy View Post
What good is heel-to for everyday driving while trying to save your clutch?
Heel-toe saves your driveline from backlash and prevents unnecessary wear to the clutch when the RPM on the engine side is different from the transmission side.

The difference between a car that's heel-toed all the time and one that is not, can be as much as half its service life.

In my opinion, if you don't heel-toe and revmatch, you're not really driving a manual.
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      05-26-2015, 11:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itdnwiwbp View Post
Yep, learn to rev match and heel-toe and always be in the proper gear while the car is in motion.
This is way to much for the OP.



I am glad that i learned when i was 15. I think i will call my father to thank him.

Good job for not giving in to the automatic and deciding to learn. I have met a few that cant drive a stick shift. They arent friends for very long.

For now, no skipping gears, use the brakes instead of down shifting to slow down, and change gears smoothly instead of quickly.
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      05-27-2015, 05:24 AM   #10
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^whs
Get the basics under control first, then move on to move advanced technique.
You will get to the point where you don't really think about it.
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      05-27-2015, 05:31 AM   #11
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What about double clutching and granny shifting...

Sorry couldn't help myself.
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      05-27-2015, 06:18 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seank View Post
This is way to much for the OP.
Just saying'...
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      05-27-2015, 07:33 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seank View Post
This is way to much for the OP.
Ouch. I'm glad I'm not the OP but that comment could've been directed toward me too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
^whs
Get the basics under control first, then move on to move advanced technique.
You will get to the point where you don't really think about it.
I've been driving stick for over 10 years. I just never thought about going beyond the basics. Now you guys got me thinking. I'm probably now at an age where I'm too old to learn from friends (Not that I have any who can even drive stick. My wife is the only other person I know who can drive stick.), but I'm still interested. Do they teach these techniques at driving school?
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      05-27-2015, 07:40 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
In my opinion, if you don't heel-toe and revmatch, you're not really driving a manual.
I get what you're saying, but I find it hard to believe the segment of people who drive like this is even anywhere near the majority of manual drivers (and even manual drivers only make up around 5% of the population in the US). Am I wrong to think the vast majority of people who drive stick only do it to save money? Back when I started driving, manual was standard on cars and the automatic option not only cost around $800 more but it also got worse gas mileage.
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      05-27-2015, 08:51 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twixboy View Post
I've been driving stick for over 10 years. I just never thought about going beyond the basics. Now you guys got me thinking. I'm probably now at an age where I'm too old to learn from friends (Not that I have any who can even drive stick. My wife is the only other person I know who can drive stick.), but I'm still interested. Do they teach these techniques at driving school?
There probably are, but most schools focus on car control.
There is a ton of online material including videos that will provide most of the info you need.
After that it's practice, practice, practice......
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      05-27-2015, 09:28 AM   #16
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I don't agree with the heel toe piece. I have driven manuals all my life and never had to replace a clutch. That's why the M comes with a clutch suited for the job. Rev matching is good for passengers. Long term you will want to learn how to engine brake to avoid premature wear on your brake pads. Automatics engine brake constantly.
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      05-27-2015, 09:37 AM   #17
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I learned to drive stick (and heel-toe) by watching a ton of those Japanese Best Motoring/Hot Version racing videos
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      05-27-2015, 10:01 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fdagen View Post
I don't agree with the heel toe piece. I have driven manuals all my life and never had to replace a clutch. That's why the M comes with a clutch suited for the job. Rev matching is good for passengers. Long term you will want to learn how to engine brake to avoid premature wear on your brake pads. Automatics engine brake constantly.
I used to engine brake all the time and went 80k miles on my first manual before I had to replace the brake pads. But then I had to replace the clutch at 100k. On my 2nd manual I started using the brakes and didn't engine brake as much, but then I had to replace pads every 40k, but I never had to replace the clutch. So it's pick your poison.
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      05-27-2015, 10:34 AM   #19
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Heel toe is the preferred technique. However, on the street, unless I'm feeling particularly sporty/aggressive, I brake, stop braking for a second to rev match and downshift, and get back on the brake. I'd venture to say that is what 99% of manual transmission drivers do on the street (considering how few of those are even sports cars).

FWIW, if I am coming to a stop, I keep it in whatever gear I was last in (3/4/5/6) and when the rpm's drop to the point of stutter (i.e. 25mph) I depress the clutch. Sometimes I will downshift to 4th or 3rd if I was in 6th, but not usually.
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      05-27-2015, 10:38 AM   #20
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Still never had to replace a clutch, but assuming this is true I stand corrected:

http://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/busting-the-myths-of-driving-a-manual-transmission.html
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      05-27-2015, 12:32 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fdagen View Post
Still never had to replace a clutch, but assuming this is true I stand corrected:

http://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/bu...nsmission.html
Indeed. Brakes are for stopping, transmissions are for going. And as it says, I'd much rather replace brakes than my clutch.
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      05-27-2015, 02:20 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itdnwiwbp View Post
Indeed. Brakes are for stopping, transmissions are for going. And as it says, I'd much rather replace brakes than my clutch.
Wrong.

The article didn't say anything about using the "clutch" as brake. In fact, if you are using the clutch to slow down, you shouldn't be driving a manual.

However.

You should take full advantage of engine braking by leaving the car in a lower gear while BRAKING. It leaves the car in the right gear to accelerate when you need it, and you don't have to downshift when the car stopped braking and using the CLUTCH as a way to bridge the difference in engine speed and transmission speed. That in and of itself is far more harmful to the clutch and the rest of the driveline.

You should ALWAYS rev-match when you downshift. That much should be a given. If you can't rev-match on your downshift, you're just operating a manual, you're not actually DRIVING a manual. How you go about rev-matching, be it heel-toe or brake, slow down, off the brakes, clutch in, blip throttle, then downshift, is somewhat debatable. I'd be a hypocrite if I told you I heel-toe ALL THE TIME. The truth is, sometimes I get lazy driving on the street and depending on what the conditions dictate, I will do the 2nd method far often than I actually heel-toe. On the track I exclusively heel-toe because it's far easier to execute on track, and so much more vital.

But what you do NOT want to do, is approach a stop/slow down, clutch in, down shift, then ease out of the clutch. THAT is unnecessarily wearing on the clutch. At the minimum you need to brake, clutch in, downshift, then BLIP the throttle to match the engine's speed with the transmission's speed, then release the clutch.

Where heel-toe comes in handy, is if you're approaching a heavier than normal braking, like on a highway coming to slowing traffic, you can brake AND downshift at the same time rather than waiting until your done braking, then downshift. This allows you to transition smoothly from braking to throttle without being fully disengaged in either.

I still contend, that you can OPERATE a manual, but you're not DRIVING a manual unless you know heel-toe and can execute it anytime.
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