NEW INtake BOX for Z4M and Z4 Project

[chickdr]

^WHS +10. Do you really think a "NEW" air box design will be produced which all of a sudden excels where all others failed? Not much chance of this IMO. As others have said - if the stock air box could be modified cheaply to give a bunch more power, it would have been done by BMW in the first place. This same discussion occurs on the S2K board. The S2K is very similar with it stock "aftermarket looking" air box and filter. Still, folks are always trying to 'improve" what is already about as good as it can be. There are serious diminishing returns here...

[Diokaef]

Originally Posted by chickdr

^WHS +10. Do you really think a "NEW" air box design will be produced which all of a sudden excels where all others failed? Not much chance of this IMO. As others have said - if the stock air box could be modified cheaply to give a bunch more power, it would have been done by BMW in the first place. This same discussion occurs on the S2K board. The S2K is very similar with it stock "aftermarket looking" air box and filter. Still, folks are always trying to 'improve" what is already about as good as it can be. There are serious diminishing returns here...

I never said that was cheap. I will be investing a substantial amount of money on this, but not because anybody, but because I want a better system for track

[Matty C]

Every new products starts with a good idea, then comes lots of trial and error. That is why major companies have R&D Divisions. I hand it to Diokaef for taking the time to actually look for a way to make a improvement. I also believe that he is not trying to profit off of the new or renovated design that he is part of creating. I wish him the best of luck and I look forward to seeing the final product.

Personally, I have added a Gruppe M and love the sound. I didn't dyno my car prior to or after the addition but with the sound quality I immediately feel in love and had the feeling of higher performance.

Best of luck!

[Thisisdudewhoru]

Originally Posted by The__J__Factor

Also i wouldn't mind seeing the effects of a larger intake diameter compared to stock.
Might prove beneficial for top end.

You do realize our cars have individual throttle bodies, correct?

If anyone wants real power from an "intake" just take everything off and add velocity stacks with a nice scoop pushing some air in the bay and a custom tune. From what I've seen some people have made huge power off of this on e46's and since this is your track car I'm sure you won't mind not using a filter.

It'll end up being cheaper than doing the r&d for another intake that won't gain much more if any above any other systems out there.

[Serious]

Originally Posted by Thisisdudewhoru

You do realize our cars have individual throttle bodies, correct?

If anyone wants real power from an "intake" just take everything off and add velocity stacks with a nice scoop pushing some air in the bay and a custom tune. From what I've seen some people have made huge power off of this on e46's and since this is your track car I'm sure you won't mind not using a filter.

It'll end up being cheaper than doing the r&d for another intake that won't gain much more if any above any other systems out there.

no that is not a good idea, one reason is because it eliminates the HFM metering.

The stock airbox already utilizes much better designed trumpets then any of the garbage out there. All those systems do is suck in hot air which offsets any benefit of flow they may have.

The only reason you see gains is because they are shady garbage shops who don't do any real R&D and dyno with the hood open with a bunch of fans to eliminate the heat soak problem, not to mention the fact that those designs sacrifice low and mid range torque for peak HP numbers, which is completely pointless for a track car since most of your time is actually spent between 5000 and 6500 rpm.

Running any car without air filters is a recipe for disaster.



There is a golden rule with s54 intakes... either install them because you want the sound or spend the money and grab an OEM CSL box or a properly designed CF airbox (bimmerworld, delage, etc.) and even then neither of these intakes will show any significant gains over stock without the additional mods of cams, headers, and a proper tune.

Anything else is just marketing BS and phony unscientific dyno numbers.

[The__J__Factor]

Originally Posted by Thisisdudewhoru

You do realize our cars have individual throttle bodies, correct?

If anyone wants real power from an "intake" just take everything off and add velocity stacks with a nice scoop pushing some air in the bay and a custom tune. From what I've seen some people have made huge power off of this on e46's and since this is your track car I'm sure you won't mind not using a filter.

It'll end up being cheaper than doing the r&d for another intake that won't gain much more if any above any other systems out there.

You do realize that they can only suck in what the intake lets, correct?

I haven't seen any flow bench data for the head or intake so i cant say that the intake is a bottle neck or not. Hence my interest in seeing various intake sizes and their test results.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Diokaef

"What is Poiseuille's Law?" If you do a Google (or other
search engine) search, you will find numerous sites, deriving and explaining P's
Law at any level of mathematical sophistication you care to use. Two points worth
making is that the resultant equation is different for "slow" and "fast" flow,
for turbulent flow, and for bends in the tube. So there is not a "universal"
equation.

Please include the references you have cut-and-pasted all your post text from in posts 38,39,40 and this post (41), as this is a re-print of other peoples work:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost...5&postcount=19
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...9/eng99525.htm
http://www.exampleproblems.com/wiki/...Fluid_dynamics

[Diokaef]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Please include the references you have cut-and-pasted all your post text from in posts 38,39,40 and this post (41), as this is a re-print of other peoples work:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost...5&postcount=19
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...9/eng99525.htm
http://www.exampleproblems.com/wiki/...Fluid_dynamics

Sorry did not know I had to do that, but I believe you have covered.
Also I'm very glad you researched and checked what I'm saying.
I base my ideas on true science and not on just ideas out of my head otherwise I woul probably be building a time machine lol
Thank's

[jra]

Diokaef,

not sure how i looked over this thread. pics of my old streamline engineering cai. i dont remember all of the technical specs and dynos but basically a cone filter in a carbon fiber housing using the oem intake port

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450277

[pokeybritches]

I somehow missed this thread as well. IMHO you can probably get a few more horsepower out of a redesigned box, but you'll have to have hard results for customers to consider purchasing it. Throwing on an aftermarket part that you can't see or hear on the basis of performance requires that customer to have a lot of faith in the performance gain of that part. I doubt you'll get a huge change in sound, because all closed boxes muffle the intake sound.

I think there is definite potential for performance improvement. It would just have to be a lot of documented improvement to justify the cost. Good luck if you are still planning to take on this project!

[jra]

the streamline cai was basically the same thing that the op is suggesting. from experience the sound at wot was loud and that was without the sound generator on the 2.5. imagine a 3.2 gruppem intake that didnt lose power.

[Diokaef]

The project may still come, it's paused right now since we are investing on the new exhaust system. Thank's

[Dieter]

Originally Posted by mousitch

Hey,
did you get a new car already ?