infamous 3000 rpm rattle!

[garz747]

Ive only had my Z4M coupe since last summer and shes going to bed shortly for the winter. Built a cottage this summer and its so quiet up there that I noticed the "rattle" when pulling away one morning on the 1-2 shift at that rpm.This car only has 15000 miles on it! I can duplicate the noise in neutral at 3000 too. Not nice! What worries me is cruising at 75-80 mph puts you right in that engine speed- although wind noise drowns it out. Should i be worried about cam bolts and vanos at his low mileage? The car is an 07.

[Mirko]

When did you last perform a valve clearance check (ie shims)? I assume never done due to low mileage. Might not need it with such low miles but could be the reason. Also if the car is open to have it checked you can check the bolts and vanos.

Is there enough oil? A rattle can occur when oil levels are low.

[garz747]

oil level is fine and 10w60 only has 3000kms on it. never did valve adjust yet,

[XMetal]

Yeah...this is most worrisome for owners new to the S54 platform.

Most of the rattles you've mentioned comes from the exhaust hub tabs hitting/hammering the disc. If after performing a valve adjustment and validating the intake hub bolts are good, then consider doing the Beisan disc replacement. I did the entire Beisan seal/rattle kit and hub disc and it's very quiet now. Of course, there are still the ratcheting that is the nature of solid lifters, but much quieter now.

[StickMon]

Does it sound like marbles in a coffee can?
That's what mine sounded like when I bought it, but pretty much at any RPM.
Turned out to be the infamous Vanos bolts.

[garz747]

only at around 3000 rpm do i hear it-otherwise the engine is ok with the characteristic noisy valvetrain til warmed up-tons of power and no CEL

[inTgr8r]

What is your production date.
Part way through 07, the intake bolts were updated to the new ones.

[garz747]

im pretty sure its 10-06 Ian

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by XMetal

Yeah...this is most worrisome for owners new to the S54 platform.

Most of the rattles you've mentioned comes from the exhaust hub tabs hitting/hammering the disc. If after performing a valve adjustment and validating the intake hub bolts are good, then consider doing the Beisan disc replacement. I did the entire Beisan seal/rattle kit and hub disc and it's very quiet now. Of course, there are still the ratcheting that is the nature of solid lifters, but much quieter now.

+1, rattle-free since I did this

[elerner61]

I've always had some noise around 3K rpm until the car is fully warmed up (nominal oil temp for 10 minutes). The installation of a C300 hub didn't diminish the noise at all (one broken tab). What did seem to decrease the noise was switching to the new Shell Twin Turbo oil. Go figure.

[garz747]

you mean bmw 10 w60 made by shell i assume? never thought about that- still have 6 litres of tws castrol for next change.

[elerner61]

Yes, meant the TwinPower replacement for Castrol TWS 10W-60.

[pal]

Can you record a sound clip and post?

I recently had RRT replace my exhaust cam hub with their design (see post below). After 90K on the motor, the tabs still looked almost brand new. Also, my 07 had the old bolts that I proactively replaced a few years ago with the new ones.

Z4MC S54 VANOS Rebuilt http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1318977

[Boosted 1]

So i'm reviving a year old thread...


My car ticks A LOT at the 3-3400k mark. It gets louder the longer I drive. Its not marbles in a can sound just fast ticking. I've done a valve adjustment and oil change (liqui moly 10-60) and pulleys within the last 2k miles. I'm not down on power, and my fuel consumption hasn't gotten any worse.
I keep telling myself this is normal s54 noise, and I've read the service bulletin daily for a few months now trying to ease my nerves.

I'm about to bite the bullet and do my vanos, but should I be super concerned right now and stop driving it?

[StickMon]

Have you checked your exhaust hub tabs?
I suppose so, if you did a valve adjustment they're pretty obvious.
If you did the valves too sloppy, it's nothing to worry about. That's the safe side.
Then again, if the valves are sloppy it should be worse when cold. The gaps tighten when the engine gets hot and things expand.
When I had a sloppy valve, it was most obvious around 2400 RPM cold. Would quiet down when hot.

Not sure any of that is much help.

Might want to pull the valve cover and have a peep.
If you've replaced the gasket recently it will still be compliant. Won't need a new one.
Just make sure it stays flat on the head when you lift off the cover.

[Boosted 1]

I did check the hub and everything looked good. I only had to re-shim 6. Whats throwing me off is that it doesn't get quieter, but louder when I have been driving it. I'm not talking about 5 or 10 mins. I notice the volume increase after about an hour or so, or if i go out and make a lot of stops turning off the car and restarting.
It has all the power and pulls really hard to redline. The noise does completely go away by 4k rpms. I can recreate it stationary when I rev, or under load when driving.

[SaltyNC]

I've always considered ticking normal. The S54 engine reminds me of a sewing machine running. I had an indy do my valves at 30K. I'm going to do them at 60K. It's always ticked. We just rebuilt the vanos on mine, and it still ticks, but definitely no rattle now.

Rattle at 3000 makes me think VANOS issue. It's probably in very early stages of bolts loosening, or could be a broken tab, but 15K is low mileage. Mine had 30K when I bought it, and I had a distinct 3000 RPM rattle that also disappeared when it went into 4000 RPM territory. By 47K, rattle become knocking that would mostly go away when engine got hot.

At 15K, it's probably good for 10K more miles without much worry if you don't drive it hard or track it, but with these kinds of things, you could always have an event. I love the Beisan system. If you do all the Beisan upgrades (oil disk with smaller exhaust hub tab holes, seals, rattle, solenoid) and replace the springs with the better S62* vanos springs and the upgraded bolts, you're good to go.Vanos is no longer a worry point.

Really, if you address the vanos at any time, and do rod bearings at 50K, there isn't much else to worry about with the S54...nothing catastrophic.

*CORRECTION: I originally said S65 springs, but it is the S62 engine diaphragm springs that are used in the S54.

Salty

[SaltyNC]

Ha! I just realized I was replying to OP from a year ago and to Boosted today. It's been a rough week at work.

Salty

[Boosted 1]

Originally Posted by SaltyNC

Ha! I just realized I was replying to OP from a year ago and to Boosted today. It's been a rough week at work.

Salty

You helped me again and didn’t even mean to!!!

[coh661]

Originally Posted by SaltyNC

I've always considered ticking normal. The S54 engine reminds me of a sewing machine running. I had an indy do my valves at 30K. I'm going to do them at 60K. It's always ticked. We just rebuilt the vanos on mine, and it still ticks, but definitely no rattle now.

Rattle at 3000 makes me think VANOS issue. It's probably in very early stages of bolts loosening, or could be a broken tab, but 15K is low mileage. Mine had 30K when I bought it, and I had a distinct 3000 RPM rattle that also disappeared when it went into 4000 RPM territory. By 47K, rattle become knocking that would mostly go away when engine got hot.

At 15K, it's probably good for 10K more miles without much worry if you don't drive it hard or track it, but with these kinds of things, you could always have an event. I love the Beisan system. If you do all the Beisan upgrades (oil disk with smaller exhaust hub tab holes, seals, rattle, solenoid) and replace the springs with the better S65 vanos springs and the upgraded bolts, you're good to go.Vanos is no longer a worry point.

Really, if you address the vanos at any time, and do rod bearings at 50K, there isn't much else to worry about with the S54...nothing catastrophic.

Salty

Hey Salty,

Regarding the S65 VANOS springs that you are referring to, are those the 4 springs that hold the pump disc in place? I haven't read anything about having to upgrade those.

[SaltyNC]

Originally Posted by milamookie

Hey Salty,

Regarding the S65 VANOS springs that you are referring to, are those the 4 springs that hold the pump disc in place? I haven't read anything about having to upgrade those.

I usually put springs in quotes, because they don't look like what we think of when we say spring. You need two of these:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...t/11367833218/

The ones on the S62 engine are the same shape as the S54 engine, but a little thicker. Helps reduce rattle even more.

You definitely will want to replace this, as well:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...r/11317830159/

And if you're doing yourself, this is the shorter timing lock pin for the Z4:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...n/83300495528/

Salty

[coh661]

Originally Posted by SaltyNC

I usually put springs in quotes, because they don't look like what we think of when we say spring. You need two of these:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...t/11367833218/

The ones on the S65 engine are the same shape as the S54 engine, but a little thicker. Helps reduce rattle even more.

You definitely will want to replace this, as well:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...r/11317830159/

And if you're doing yourself, this is the shorter timing lock pin for the Z4:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...n/83300495528/

Salty

Awesome! Those are on the list already. I'm trying to get used to all the terminology with all the parts in that area. Btw, I was going to get these bolts from ECS, do you know if those are the upgraded ones? They have Torx heads so I'm assuming they are but ECS doesn't state such

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...7129905536kt3/

If you think there are other better bolts out there I'm open to suggestions