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      01-10-2014, 02:14 PM   #23
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Euro O2s are the same just with longer cables, but you can only get them from europe as US dealers are no longer allowed to order euro parts for the most part.

You're looking at over 400 bucks to get them here FYI. I have a brand new set that I was holding onto for the recommended 60 thousand mile replacement.
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      01-10-2014, 04:28 PM   #24
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Seems odd to me that the Euro O2's are the same as the U.S. ones but with longer cables but if you cut and add a section of wire to the U.S. ones you will get a fault. I wouldn't think the new connections added with a small section of wire would add that much resistance.

If you have already cut the cables and added a section and get a fault code because of increased resistance, I would think that you could cut it really close to the front and to the rear, replace the whole cable with a lower gauge wire (thicker) and reduce the resistance back to where it was in the beginning (determined with an OHM meter on a new U.S. O2). Is it just wanting to see really low resistance to keep there from being a fault code (check engine)? Wondering if the resistance when down a lot if it would also have a fault code.

Possible I am way off base with the above.
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      01-10-2014, 05:17 PM   #25
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I really don't think that adding wire is causing a code. There is something else going on here. I had to add wire to O2 sensors before for turbo installs, and never had an issue.
Also, the signal that is sent to the ECU is very very low current, there is no way that there is a significant voltage drop from the wires. The heater circuit may take a few amps, but I am sure the signal is in mA.

BUT! They do reach. Mine did.
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      01-10-2014, 05:38 PM   #26
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It has everything to do with cutting the wires. Cutting THESE specific wires - not ones on some other vehicle application. There's been plenty of hair-pulling over this topic. The results of which have been lovingly passed on to other forum members here by people that have been down this road b4. You'll want to stick a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger if you decide to snip these wires in any way. I believe it's an impedance issue, but it doesn't really matter in the end. That's my $0.02
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      01-10-2014, 06:06 PM   #27
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The next time my 935mm O2 sensor goes out, I will definitely replace it with the 1075mm O2 sensor. I wish I would have thought of that when I bought new ones. The extra 5.5 inches sounds perfect for a not so tight fit!
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      01-10-2014, 06:08 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devious21 View Post
The shop that did my header install did cut them. I gave them all the info to extend and when they went to do it, they said they were over a foot short still.

Basically they cut them and now I'm getting strange codes everytime I fill up. I have a feeling my 02s are the culprit.

What led you to replace them? Did you do any troubleshooting to narrow it down or just bought them blindly?
I agree they shouldn't have cut them but since it is already done I wonder if there isn't a solution to fixing the issue without replacing them. You know if they soldered the wire or used butt connectors to add a section?
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      01-10-2014, 06:47 PM   #29
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Adding a larger diameter wire does not decrease the wires resistance at the lengths we are talking about here. It only adds current carrying capacity which is not needed. Actually a larger diameter wire might ADD resistance to the circuit, depending on its properties.

What the real question is: 'what type of wire is the OEM using?'. Wire is not just wire.
(Now for some speculation) - I would be willing to bet the wire used on both US and Euro O2 sensors is of a specific type of very low resistance wire. Some type of NiCu (nickel/copper for corrosion resistance) wire (not likely) or AgCu (Silver/copper). Silver is a better conductor than copper and way better than nickel.
Then you solder your connection with a generic solder (when you should have used a low resistance solder), which has a much higher resistance value than the core wire, so you introduce a high resistance (higher than the core wire) junction.

It also might not be a resistance issue but a cross-talk issue.
(More speculation)
They use a specific low resistance wire not because they are worried about loss (the effective voltage is .2V to .9V) , but the frequency of the signal. The higher the RPM, the higher the frequency or cross-counts (lean/rich). The higher the frequency of the signal, the more the electron flow gravitates to the outside of the conductor and maybe the sensor signal is bleeding over to the other (return side) of the wire, damping the effective signal to the ECU. All because when you spliced in some other wire, you did not effectively insulate the solder junctions and the 'new wire' is not good enough.

Or it could be both...

Also, with the normal household volt-ohm meters (especially the chepo $50 meters) you cannot reliably measure the wires resistance at these lengths. The values are so small they fall into the mean error of the meter.

Even my $600 Fluke meter will not do it and it is professionally calibrated every six months.
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      01-10-2014, 07:12 PM   #30
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This is the info I was looking for in my original post
Turns out there is enough wire bundled inside the taped up loom to reach the sensors in my custom section 1

Regards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipkiller View Post
Adding a larger diameter wire does not decrease the wires resistance at the lengths we are talking about here. It only adds current carrying capacity which is not needed. Actually a larger diameter wire might ADD resistance to the circuit, depending on its properties.

What the real question is: 'what type of wire is the OEM using?'. Wire is not just wire.
(Now for some speculation) - I would be willing to bet the wire used on both US and Euro O2 sensors is of a specific type of very low resistance wire. Some type of NiCu (nickel/copper for corrosion resistance) wire (not likely) or AgCu (Silver/copper). Silver is a better conductor than copper and way better than nickel.
Then you solder your connection with a generic solder (when you should have used a low resistance solder), which has a much higher resistance value than the core wire, so you introduce a high resistance (higher than the core wire) junction.

It also might not be a resistance issue but a cross-talk issue.
(More speculation)
They use a specific low resistance wire not because they are worried about loss (the effective voltage is .2V to .9V) , but the frequency of the signal. The higher the RPM, the higher the frequency or cross-counts (lean/rich). The higher the frequency of the signal, the more the electron flow gravitates to the outside of the conductor and maybe the sensor signal is bleeding over to the other (return side) of the wire, damping the effective signal to the ECU. All because when you spliced in some other wire, you did not effectively insulate the solder junctions and the 'new wire' is not good enough.

Or it could be both...

Also, with the normal household volt-ohm meters (especially the chepo $50 meters) you cannot reliably measure the wires resistance at these lengths. The values are so small they fall into the mean error of the meter.

Even my $600 Fluke meter will not do it and it is professionally calibrated every six months.
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      01-10-2014, 10:04 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
I agree they shouldn't have cut them but since it is already done I wonder if there isn't a solution to fixing the issue without replacing them. You know if they soldered the wire or used butt connectors to add a section?
I'd have to ask them. I honestly don't even know if they're the issue at this point.
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      01-11-2014, 10:15 AM   #32
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Also don't forget to wrap up and tuck away the connections really well so that water doesn't get in them. With the euro setup they are in a position to be more susceptible to the elements.
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      01-12-2014, 02:51 PM   #33
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What codes are popping up?
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      01-12-2014, 11:39 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
What codes are popping up?
I had a different code initially. These are my 3 current ones.


// 1) 2FDA No Fault Code description found !
// 2) 0000 No Fault Code description found !
// 3) 2CEC No Fault Code description found !

2CEC is also described as "Drosselklappensteller klemmt kurzzeitig"
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      01-13-2014, 12:56 AM   #35
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2FDA is Crank Case Ventilation, System Check.
2CEC is Throttle positioner, stuck for in intermediate (sic) time
No idea on the 0000.

"Drosselklappensteller klemmt kurzzeitig" = "Throttle actuator stuck momentarily"
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      01-13-2014, 01:20 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StickMon View Post
2FDA is Crank Case Ventilation, System Check.
2CEC is Throttle positioner, stuck for in intermediate (sic) time
No idea on the 0000.

"Drosselklappensteller klemmt kurzzeitig" = "Throttle actuator stuck momentarily"
Interesting. When I clear these, they normally pop right after filling up.

Only notable things about my car are the headers w/ modified section 1 (cut wires) and evolve airbox and tune.
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      01-13-2014, 10:49 AM   #37
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I had issue with SES after filling up. It comes and go. Dealer pulled code and fixed it by replacing high pressure check valve IIRC.
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      01-13-2014, 01:11 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobMCoupe View Post
I had issue with SES after filling up. It comes and go. Dealer pulled code and fixed it by replacing high pressure check valve IIRC.
Do you remember which code you were getting?

Quote:
2FDA is Crank Case Ventilation, System Check.
This is most likely the hose # 11-15-7-834-056 we had to modify for the Evolve install. I'll have to check how it's doing. Hopefully an easy fix. Should be completely unrelated to the header install.

Quote:
2CEC is Throttle positioner, stuck for in intermediate (sic) time
Still no clue on this one.Anyone have any insight on this?

The generic code I was getting before was P120d, I believe. Not sure if that relates to either of the two above.

It's possible that none of my codes are related to O2 issues. I'm just paranoid since the wires were snipped during the install.
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      01-13-2014, 03:31 PM   #39
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2CEC:
Check your throttle rail to make sure it's not rubbing on anything and that it's clean.
Maybe hit it with some WD-40.
When I had my air box off to do a motor mount swap I meticulously cleaned the throttle bodies with CRC Throttle Body Cleaner and a tooth brush and cleaned and WD-40'ed all the moving parts of the actuator system.
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      01-13-2014, 06:51 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devious21 View Post
Do you remember which code you were getting?


This is most likely the hose # 11-15-7-834-056 we had to modify for the Evolve install. I'll have to check how it's doing. Hopefully an easy fix. Should be completely unrelated to the header install.


Still no clue on this one.Anyone have any insight on this?

The generic code I was getting before was P120d, I believe. Not sure if that relates to either of the two above.

It's possible that none of my codes are related to O2 issues. I'm just paranoid since the wires were snipped during the install.
FAULT #2A11.

Here is the description of the job.

J# 2 10B14Z06 CHECK ENGINE LIGHT TECH (S):186 WARJWITY
CUSTOMER REPORTS"CHECK ENGINE'/SERVICE ENGINE SOON' WARNING COMES ON.
PERFORMED A SHORT TEST AS NEEDED.I FOUND DMTL FAULT #2A11 MINOR LEAK DETETCTED.
I PERFORMED A DIAGNOSES LEAK CHECK USING GT1. I FOUND NO LEAKS DETECTED.I THEN PERFORMED
A SMOKE LEAK CHECK.I FOUND THE TANK BREATHER VALVE IS LEAKING AT SEAMS.THIS IS THE ONLY LEAK FOUND.
REPLACED THE TANK BREATHER VALVE AS NEEDED. CLEARED FAULTS AND ROAD TESTED.ALL OK AT THIS TIME.
NO DIAGCCOE, MECHANICAL FAILURE.
PARTS ------QTY- -FP-NLAtER...............DESCRIPTION--------------------UNIT PRICE-
JOB #2 1 13-90-1-831-770 FUEL TANK BR BM WARRANTY
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      01-13-2014, 07:01 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StickMon View Post
2CEC
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobMCoupe View Post
FAULT #2A11.
Nice. Thank you both for the info.
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      01-13-2014, 07:49 PM   #42
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So 2A11 was EVAP, and also had nothing to do with headers.
Maybe some of this is simply coincidence.
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      09-18-2014, 07:07 PM   #43
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I am re-routing mine now. I have one sensor that's long and one that doesn't make it by an inch or two. Why can't you switch the post cat sensors? Are they different sensors on each pipe? They look the same besides the length. So far I have been very careful to keep everything the same.
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      09-18-2014, 07:18 PM   #44
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Are the wires on the same side of the tranny as before or did you re route like Euro cars?
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