Bad Clutch Starter Lock Out Switch???

[unluky]

Do these things go bad often???

Drove my car the other day now I go to get in it today and nothing. Everything comes alive (even the headlights and self level check) but when I turn the key - nothing. I mean nothing at all - no clicks, so lights dimming - nothing. Like I am doing nothing at all.

It tested fine so I knew it was not the battery, but I put a jump box on it anyway - no change. I read it might be the key so I tried my spare - and it does the same thing.

I do have a clutch stop in (been in over a year) and every great moon when I turn the key, there is a milisecond delay before it cranks. I figured either my clutch stop had shifted a bit and needed adjustment or I just did not get it all the way pressed in. So I adjusted it down - still nothing. I took it all the way out - still nothing.

It feels just like when you try and start it without the clutch pressed in - everything is live and comes to life - but nothing on the starter at all - not a click or anything.

I crawled under and looked at the switch and it is moving correctly.

I can't seem to find where these are a common issue, but that occasional milisecond delay makes me suspect it. But weird a simple switch like that would go out.

Anyone ever had one go out on them before I order one and wait for it to arrive to find out that this is not it????

Kinda scratching my head here........

[Westersund]

Change your ignition switch, common problem. Doesn't cost much and it's easy to install. If that won't solve the problem at least you have a spare one.

[unluky]

Thanks for that - I'll do some searching on that. Always nice to know common ailments before I order $600 of the wrong stuff!

[GuidoK]

Yes ignition switch is a common problem, but the startermotor itself too (the brushes wear out).
You dont always hear the solenoid clutch engage.
You could probe the wire that goes from the solenoid (the solenoid on the starter) to the startermotor itself. Its a litze wire (so bare), so easily probed with a test ligth. That way you know for sure if its the startermotor or something in front of that (solenoid, ignition switch, wiring etc)

[unluky]

Ill check it out, although after searching for the ignition switch, it really does sound a lot like what I have going on. It is in a garage that is perfectly quiet and there is nothing happening at all after the key turn. Not a peep. Like I am not even turning it. When it starts the lights always dim a bit - etc. Now there is nothing at all.

I'll try the starter if the switches don't get me anywhere. Thanks for all the info.

[unluky]

OK - great tip. Ordered the switch and installed it after reading up on it and that did sound like my issue, but just installed it and no dice. Same exact thing. Dead quiet garage, turn key on, everything lights up like normal, hear the fuel pump kick in like normal and the brake check clicking. Wait for everything to stop and then turn to start and nothing at all - not a diming of the lights or a single click or noise at all. Just totally DOA after it drove just fine last time.

Now I am thinking clutch switch again, although it looks like I need to be 3 feet tall to get to it. I guess I will order that and try again unless someone else has another suggestion??? I can't find where these go out, so I am not confident that this is what it is, but it does the same thing as when you do not push the clutch in. Guess I could jump around it and see if I can get to it and figure out what wires do what.

Hate electrical issues.........

[GuidoK]

Have you measured the starter motor litze wire? To see if your startermotor gets power from the solenoid? 1min job with a test light, but you need 2 people (1 to start the car ).

[unluky]

GuidoK - I owe you an apology! As I was looking up the clutch switch part number I was researching the install and kept running into "I changed it but that was not it" posts. I then saw several that said to pop the starter with a hammer a few times and I did - and nothing. Tried again, nothing. Got a steel rod since the angle is tough and popped on the starter and solenoid a few times and tried one more time and she fired right up! Turned it off and started it 3 more times in a row and it never missed a beat!

Starter on the way out - soooo glad I tried that as getting under that dash to the switch looked like a real bear.

Now how long can I trust it.....LOL. Get one on order and wait for a cool weekend to swap it out. Changed 15 starters in my life and I have never had one go from working fine to just nothing - not even a click. Should have listened to you sooner!

Thanks for the help, even if I did not take it soon enough.

[dc_wright]

Trying tapping the starter a couple times with a long rod or screwdriver. Sometimes with worn brushes one of them is just a couple thousandths from making contact and if you smack the starter you can get the circuit to close. If you whack the starter and the engine cranks you pretty much know it's a starter issue and not the clutch switch.

[Steeler]

Keep the rod and hammer in the trunk for now as insurance.
If/when you need to use them in public people will think are a nut.

Reminds me of the time I took my 58 MGA to the coffee shop came out and she would not start with the starter motor, opened the boot grabbed the hand crank, stuck it under the front bumper and kicked her over once........vrooooom, the kids sitting around on there BMX couldn't believe what they were seeing

[unluky]

Yeah - I am not fond of being stranded - especially for a $250 part! I got more money than humor anymore..........and multiple cars. =)

I'll get one on order and donate my knuckle skin to the Z4 gods for a few hours to save waiting for the ticking time bomb to go off. Beautiful night tonight though......might risk a run with no down time! I'll take the road and hammer just in case.

Thanks for the info guys!

[dc_wright]

Originally Posted by unluky

GuidoK - I owe you an apology! As I was looking up the clutch switch part number I was researching the install and kept running into "I changed it but that was not it" posts. I then saw several that said to pop the starter with a hammer a few times and I did - and nothing. Tried again, nothing. Got a steel rod since the angle is tough and popped on the starter and solenoid a few times and tried one more time and she fired right up! Turned it off and started it 3 more times in a row and it never missed a beat!

Starter on the way out - soooo glad I tried that as getting under that dash to the switch looked like a real bear.

Now how long can I trust it.....LOL. Get one on order and wait for a cool weekend to swap it out. Changed 15 starters in my life and I have never had one go from working fine to just nothing - not even a click. Should have listened to you sooner!

Thanks for the help, even if I did not take it soon enough.

LOL, you must have been trying that while I was posting to whack the starter! Hard to tell how many more starts you'll get out of it without having to whack it but you should get enough with whacks to last until you get the new starter in.

[unluky]

I drove it to town to watch the fights......fingers crossed, but it was just too perfect out no to.

Steel rod in the trunk............ =)

Starter ordered - probably take this out out tomorrow and wait for the new one to arrive.

Thanks guys.

[unluky]

Since I like to do things in stags so I don't get to pissed and break something - I started taking the airbox and sound generator out today to get ready for when the starter arrives in a day or 2.

I had read that changing the starter was kind of cramped and took a few hours, but looking at it with all that removed - it was just right there. I took the extra 15 minutes and took it out - it was a snap and can all be done from under the hood with just the airbox and tubing removed. Might be the easiest starter I have ever changed out. If I had not had the sound generator, I am not even sure the air box would have needed to be taken out.

Anyone reading this in the future - don't let it scare you - it is easy as pie. Nice work BWM. My old turbo Z took longer to change 1/2 the spark plugs.

[dc_wright]

Originally Posted by unluky

Since I like to do things in stags so I don't get to pissed and break something - I started taking the airbox and sound generator out today to get ready for when the starter arrives in a day or 2.

I had read that changing the starter was kind of cramped and took a few hours, but looking at it with all that removed - it was just right there. I took the extra 15 minutes and took it out - it was a snap and can all be done from under the hood with just the airbox and tubing removed. Might be the easiest starter I have ever changed out. If I had not had the sound generator, I am not even sure the air box would have needed to be taken out.

Anyone reading this in the future - don't let it scare you - it is easy as pie. Nice work BWM. My old turbo Z took longer to change 1/2 the spark plugs.

The wonderful part about the E85/86 is the roadster design with the long hood yields an engine compartment with tons of room. Generally everything is pretty easy to access compared to other BMW models.

[unluky]

Very True. Not one of the reasons I bought it, but after 13 years with my 300ZTT in which the car was built around the v6 and tightly packed in there (nothing was easy except the brakes) this thing is a breeze to work on. Worst thing I have done is the rear shocks and that was just taking the trunk apart.

New starter arrived yesterday and I popped it in with minimal trouble and almost no cursing and she fired right up. The starter (new bosch unit) spins 10 times faster than I have heard this car do in the 3 years I have owned it, so either it is geared higher or the other one has been draggy since I have owned it. It has never failed to start on the first spin since I have had it though. Shocked how tiny that starter is.

Very, very easy removal and install. I was thrilled about that. Just in time for the best weather of the summer this weekend......

[dc_wright]

Originally Posted by unluky

The starter (new bosch unit) spins 10 times faster than I have heard this car do in the 3 years I have owned it, so either it is geared higher or the other one has been draggy since I have owned it.

Over time as the brushes wear, the contact with the rotor in the starter degrades, and there's less current delivered and starter motor torque falls off. It's progressive so you don't really notice it's been gradually spinning slower until you get the new one installed.
Glad this went without any issues!

[unluky]

I was shocked. I always though it started like a champ - even the dead of winter. I guess the motor fires easily even though the starter was on the later part of it's life. Sounds crazy fast now, but still starts instantly as always.

Really liking working on this car. Everything is so easy and every bolt I try has come off pretty easily - even on my suspension redo.