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      11-19-2020, 09:33 AM   #1
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E85 road noise (vs Miata vs 986)

I've sold my NC2 Miata half a year ago, now I'm pondering buying a roadster again - turns out, once you feel the air, there's no going back

Z4 and 986 are candidates at the moment. Initially this topic was supposed to be about handling, but I just drove a Z4 and I was positively surprised by it. Over a short 10-minutes spin I couldn't really notice it handling worse than a Miata (I know I will after a longer time, but that's ok).

Instead however I was disappointed by the road/tyre noise of the Z4. One of my biggest complains about MX-5 was exactly that, and I was expecting it would be much better in the more luxurious, bigger and heavier BMW, but honestly - there was no difference.

I realize it's a roadster, it will never be as quiet as a fixed roof car, but there should be some improvement. Is this normal? Maybe the car I drove had some problems with tyres or bearings (I couldn't tell). What's your experience?

How does it compare to a 986 Boxster?
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      11-19-2020, 10:02 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTwice View Post
I've sold my NC2 Miata half a year ago, now I'm pondering buying a roadster again - turns out, once you feel the air, there's no going back

Z4 and 986 are candidates at the moment. Initially this topic was supposed to be about handling, but I just drove a Z4 and I was positively surprised by it. Over a short 10-minutes spin I couldn't really notice it handling worse than a Miata (I know I will after a longer time, but that's ok).

Instead however I was disappointed by the road/tyre noise of the Z4. One of my biggest complains about MX-5 was exactly that, and I was expecting it would be much better in the more luxurious, bigger and heavier BMW, but honestly - there was no difference.

I realize it's a roadster, it will never be as quiet as a fixed roof car, but there should be some improvement. Is this normal? Maybe the car I drove had some problems with tyres or bearings (I couldn't tell). What's your experience?

How does it compare to a 986 Boxster?
It's been awhile since I have driven my old NC so do take my opinion with a grain of salt:

Handling wise, I see you are looking at a Z4, then its likely the electric steering is making it feel far worse than the NC, one is hydralic, one is electric and the standard Z4 is known to have an inferior electric setup. The M will drive like the NC.

Haven't driven a 986, but took a 987 S while I was looking for a M. I liked it but couldn't fall in love with it, its special but its not thrilling enough, its perfect yet unsatisfying as a driving experience. In my case it was always going to be a weekend car and I rather it be thrilling and satisfying to drive, than it being flawless.

Road noise can be usually attributed to just bad tires, perhaps line the wheel arches with sound deadening material will help. I personally never cared too much about road noise. I always solve that with a loud aftermarket exhaust, in the NC's case, it was PPE long tube with Roadstersport Race single. The Z4M has a RPI back section. Do remember the E85 is also older than your NC2, assuming the car you are looking at isn't a 5000 mile bringatrailer special, its likely carrying more aged components and those all add to NVH.
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      11-19-2020, 11:10 AM   #3
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For handling, it really depends on whether you're looking at a regular Z4 or a M. The regular cars had electronic assist while the M's have hydraulic steering. Night and day difference between them.

For noise, the tires will make a big difference on their own. Old, worn-out tires (especially if they're run flats) will make more noise than new tires. Even new, stickier summer tires will probably make more noise than comfort-focused all seasons. Look up the different options on Tire Rack and see what their testing shows.

If your focus is on noise and comfort over handling, it might be worth looking into an E89 Z4. That platform was much more focused on touring and comfort than the E85 was. It's going to have more sound deadening and newer materials.
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      11-19-2020, 11:19 AM   #4
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I had a Miata in the early 2000's, a regular Z4, and now an M. The Maz and the Z4 were similar, but the M is definitely a harsher ride. I'm also running noisy tires on it right now.

guess it depends on what your looking for.
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      11-19-2020, 11:35 AM   #5
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All of the above and highlighting if the car had run-flats they are VERY noisy.
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      11-19-2020, 12:52 PM   #6
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I like noise.
Race exhaust, blower whine and wind in the hair.

My input on handling.
I have driven 70's TVR's and they handle.
Never driven a Miata.
Didn't drive my Z4 in stock form.
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      11-19-2020, 03:12 PM   #7
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I think it needs to be recognized that the e85 Z4 was designed around the turn of the millennia while the NC Miata is a newer designed car. I believe both are electric steering.

It's hard to fault a Miata in the handling department on public roads. There's a reason why there are so many of these little Mazdas around. I've drive a few NCs in the past. They are good driving vehicles. It's a no-fuss jump in and drive roadster. And you are right, it is a bit more civilized on public roads. NVH is commendable being an open top especially for its price.

The 3.0l Z4's chunkier tires may contribute to road noise. RFT tech has improved to the point that modern RFTs don't generate a lot more dbs than regular tires. They are still harsher on undulated pavements. That's to do with the reinforced sidewall structure.
The 986 Boxster puts on a clinic for the Z4 when it comes to handling. It's like a big go-kart. The little Porsche is a revelation when it comes to taking on a set of black ribbons. It provides a very satisfying drive around technical B-grade roads. I can attack sets of switch backs with the Boxster that I dare not with the Z4. Alas, I cannot come to terms with a hidden engine compartment.

If road noise is really the only issue, just swap for A/S Touring tires. They don't grip as well but are sure quiet. In terms of overall cabin noise, I think that's part of the top-down package isn't it?
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      11-20-2020, 05:54 AM   #8
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Thank you for all the replies. I really hope it was just a case of loud tyres (although they were some Contis made in 2018, so not that old), but at the same time there's no way I'm switching to all season/economy tyres - I don't want a tourer, I intend to trash it on mountain roads. Basically I want a faster Miata with less road noise (maybe I'm overreacting or just too sensitive, but I work in an environment that has continuous noise and I care about those things).

Handling wise - as I said I'm happy with what I saw during the test drive. I know that Miata or Boxster will be better, but Z4 seemed good enough to give it a chance (and I probably won't be keeping it for more than a year or two anyway). And yes, I'm talking about electric steering, over here in Europe the Z4M is at least twice the price of a 3.0si and I just don't want to pay that much.

Anyway, if I really want, switching to a hydraulic rack in a Z4 doesn't seem too complicated or expensive.
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      11-20-2020, 07:57 AM   #9
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If you are looking at a 3.0si it will have the N52 engine, which is a delightful thing to run through the revs. It also weighs almost 200 pounds less than the cast iron S54 lump, which in turn means the front of the car is super responsive. It makes for a fantastic mountain road carver. The one thing I'd have done if I had kept mine was to install a LSD. The electric steering never bothered me much; I drive these cars more with my hips than my hands.
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      11-20-2020, 07:59 AM   #10
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Yes, some gear-type LSD would be definitely on the shopping list
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      11-20-2020, 03:10 PM   #11
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Iv'e had the first 3 generations of Miatas and daily drove a 986 before. No doubt all 3 Miatas were generally noisier than the Z4 in terms of NHV.

I think the tires on the Z4 may have had something to do with the excess noise you mentioned. Proper tires and suspension can fix that.

If you want a more luxury 2 seater get an SLK. I currently have an older SLK AMG Package and it's noticeably quieter and smoother on the road compared to my Z4. However, less sporty with a more comfortable seating position. In addition, both of my cars have stock suspension with the same model tires but SLK has the PRHT.

I'm actually thinking of buying a Miata again just to beat on at the track. Those little pebbles were fun.
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      11-20-2020, 05:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTwice View Post
Anyway, if I really want, switching to a hydraulic rack in a Z4 doesn't seem too complicated or expensive.
It sounds both complicated and expensive to me. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong!

I generally agree though that the electric steering isn't a dealbreaker if you can live without it. That said, having owned both the M and non-M, I don't think I'm willing to go back to electric buy once cry once. (eh, maybe not 100% true, there's that ongoing M tax)
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      11-20-2020, 09:13 PM   #13
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I have owned all three. Started with an NB in 2000 then went to a new 986 2.7 in 2002 then a new 2006 S2K. Currently have a 2006 Z4MR. In terms of road noise, the Boxster was the best. Absolutely amazing car for travel with its dual trunk setup. Nice, roomy interior and quiet ride. The Z4 is also very comfortable to me. Lots more sound deadening. I had a lot of seat time in an NC PRHT and it was really loud in comparison to both the P-car and BMW. A lot less insulation.
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      11-21-2020, 02:31 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filtercoffee View Post
It sounds both complicated and expensive to me. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong!
There are guides out there. Since E85 is based on E46 platform, it will gladly accept an E46 steering rack, hydraulic pump bolts straight to the engine, most of the hydraulic lines fit from some other BMWs and the hardest (and most expensive) part is connecting the steering column to the rack because you have to buy a $250 part from a Z4M.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chickdr View Post
I have owned all three. Started with an NB in 2000 then went to a new 986 2.7 in 2002 then a new 2006 S2K. Currently have a 2006 Z4MR. In terms of road noise, the Boxster was the best. Absolutely amazing car for travel with its dual trunk setup. Nice, roomy interior and quiet ride. The Z4 is also very comfortable to me. Lots more sound deadening. I had a lot of seat time in an NC PRHT and it was really loud in comparison to both the P-car and BMW. A lot less insulation.
Great stuff, thanks! That's what I imagined, Z4 can't possibly be as loud as an NC PRHT

Last edited by GTwice; 11-21-2020 at 02:37 AM..
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      11-21-2020, 06:38 PM   #15
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I've had a '72 Datsun 240 Z, a dog '80 Corvette, an '02 LS Miata, and '06 NC and now an '04 Z4 3.0. My Z4 is the quietest top up of the convertibles. I took off the new run flats that came on it and the ride and quiet was tremendously improved. The Z-4 have the horrible "sticky steering". I have since rectified that problem by doing the grease zerk fix.
It was so bad I was ready to get rid of it and find another NB. Now that the steering is repaired, I really appreciate the Z4. The Z4 felt heavy at first (which it is) but now it corners just as well as the Miata's. It's well balanced near the 50/50 weight distribution. I just throw it into the corners and it tracks like on rails. The build quality is superior in the Beemer, which it should be due to the higher original price.
The Z4 has other many plusses, but I will always love the little NB, my 1st true roadster.
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      11-23-2020, 12:31 AM   #16
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Age and wear pattern of the tire aside, the make/model tires can make more of a difference than the average person thinks. Look up the tire online (eg Tire Rack ) and see what the reviews say.
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      11-23-2020, 07:32 AM   #17
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Thanks guys.
One more question - is the N52K measurably better than pre-SEP 2006 engines? I know what's changed (valve cover, CCV, AFM, throttle body, ECU, conrods, valve stems etc.) but will I notice any of that in normal use/maintenance?
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      11-23-2020, 06:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTwice View Post
Thanks guys.
One more question - is the N52K measurably better than pre-SEP 2006 engines? I know what's changed (valve cover, CCV, AFM, throttle body, ECU, conrods, valve stems etc.) but will I notice any of that in normal use/maintenance?
Others will chime in. I've test driven both the M54 and N52 Z4s. My butt dyno can't tell the difference in outright performance. I find the N52 revs freer. The M54 sounds more aggressive at WOT.
N52 weights 161kg vs M54's 130kg per google. Shouldn't N52 be lighter?
N52 has 30hp and 10tqs more. Apart from the magnesium block requiring AL bolts which breaks easily if over tq-ed, I didn't find it difficult to maintain. I think the M54 being an older and simpler designed engine is probably easier to maintain.

Last edited by Gamb1t; 11-23-2020 at 06:32 PM..
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      11-23-2020, 06:38 PM   #19
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I believe the M54 vs N52 topic has been well covered in other threads and the internet at large. For "normal use and maintenance" I don't believe there's much of a difference. however 07+ Z4s look a little different (and better imo) due to facelifted bumper covers and taillights. That alone would tip me over to the N52.
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      11-24-2020, 08:16 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filtercoffee View Post
I believe the M54 vs N52 topic has been well covered in other threads and the internet at large. For "normal use and maintenance" I don't believe there's much of a difference. however 07+ Z4s look a little different (and better imo) due to facelifted bumper covers and taillights. That alone would tip me over to the N52.
It's not M54 vs N52 but N52 1st gen vs N52K (2nd gen.)
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      11-24-2020, 11:29 AM   #21
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Ah, understood. I have no idea.
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      11-24-2020, 01:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filtercoffee View Post
I believe the M54 vs N52 topic has been well covered in other threads and the internet at large. For "normal use and maintenance" I don't believe there's much of a difference. however 07+ Z4s look a little different (and better imo) due to facelifted bumper covers and taillights. That alone would tip me over to the N52.
2006 Z4s have the facelift bumper covers and taillights too. They have the N52 motor but it’s the first generation. They also have a TPMS system that doesn’t need sensors in the rims, so bonus there.
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