Front Tire Wear Pattern

HankDKrank · 01-08-2016, 03:39 PM

Is this normal front tire wear (inside shoulder gone)? Michelin Pilots with (guessing) 25-30 K on them. I knew they we about due but was alarmed to see cord showing on the inside when I had the wheels off this week. Thanks, HDK

longress · 01-08-2016, 04:23 PM

Caused by negative camber setting.

inTgr8r · 01-08-2016, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longress

Caused by negative camber setting.

Actually, neg camber in combination with too much toe.

I run neg 3.2 camber with no such wear, but I'm also running zero toe.

ShakyDog · 01-12-2016, 08:43 AM

My last tires off of the front looked the same on my 3.0i.
I had them align when the new ones were installed.

Steve

Shipkiller · 01-12-2016, 02:47 PM

inTgr8r is correct.

But, I think each suspension is a little different.
I also run zero toe but when I set my camber above -2.7 I get the same very high wear on the inner shoulder of the tire. When I back it down to -2.5 all is good.

Please, if you can or know, report what your alignment settings are.

HankDKrank · 01-12-2016, 04:38 PM

I plan to have FCAB's replaced and new tires all around tomorrow. Friday I will take to get aligned. Have already been to frame and alignment shop and discussed with them. They are old school and will work with me. From what I have learned so far, I think zero toe and slight camber is what I will go with. I just am not certain what camber will be the best. Car is Daily Driver and may autocross once or twice a year. I will sacrifice competitive handling for better tire wear. I was thinking camber of -1 or so but it sounds like I could go higher, say 1.5 to 2. I will see what it measures before changes and go from there. Thanks for the replies and I will update.

Questions:
My FCAB's are worn/cracked but not total trash; could they affect to such degree?
Is there a recommended camber?

jdoublehcubed · 01-12-2016, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HankDKrank

I plan to have FCAB's replaced and new tires all around tomorrow. Friday I will take to get aligned. Have already been to frame and alignment shop and discussed with them. They are old school and will work with me. From what I have learned so far, I think zero toe and slight camber is what I will go with. I just am not certain what camber will be the best. Car is Daily Driver and may autocross once or twice a year. I will sacrifice competitive handling for better tire wear. I was thinking camber of -1 or so but it sounds like I could go higher, say 1.5 to 2. I will see what it measures before changes and go from there. Thanks for the replies and I will update.

Questions:
My FCAB's are worn/cracked but not total trash; could they affect to such degree?
Is there a recommended camber?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe with the stock pins in place you can run of maximum negative camber of something like -0.7. To get up to 1.5 you definitely have to have the pins out. Which is totally fine for the car, just didn't want you to be surprised by that at the alignment shop.

Finnegan · 01-12-2016, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdoublehcubed

Quote:

Originally Posted by HankDKrank

I plan to have FCAB's replaced and new tires all around tomorrow. Friday I will take to get aligned. Have already been to frame and alignment shop and discussed with them. They are old school and will work with me. From what I have learned so far, I think zero toe and slight camber is what I will go with. I just am not certain what camber will be the best. Car is Daily Driver and may autocross once or twice a year. I will sacrifice competitive handling for better tire wear. I was thinking camber of -1 or so but it sounds like I could go higher, say 1.5 to 2. I will see what it measures before changes and go from there. Thanks for the replies and I will update.

Questions:
My FCAB's are worn/cracked but not total trash; could they affect to such degree?
Is there a recommended camber?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe with the stock pins in place you can run of maximum negative camber of something like -0.7. To get up to 1.5 you definitely have to have the pins out. Which is totally fine for the car, just didn't want you to be surprised by that at the alignment shop.

You're correct. The range seems to vary car to car but stock, without shims, pins removed (they serve no purpose except during the car's assembly) -.8 to -1.5 is attainable. At that low negative camber setting a bit of toe-in total of 1/16. won't affect wear and decrease tramlining. I'd recommend zero toe at -2.0 and beyond.

HankDKrank · 01-25-2016, 02:03 PM

Okay - got new SuperFlex FCAB's and installed. Got new Cooper Zeon RS3-A tires all around. Took to alignment shop this morning and they told me front camber is -1.25 on both sides and toe is at zero (very close to those #'s). They did not change or loosen anything. They had car for 45 minutes, drove it, and told me there was no charge, just come back again. Went to Dallas Frame and Alignment - they had a Kenworth in next stall - cranking on it's front end. Good guys.

So - either my tire wear was due to FCAB's being worn (one fell apart when removed, one was quite cracked), normal settings/wear, or both. One of those things that I am just now "owning" as I have had her all of seven months and don't know prior two owners. I will just enjoy the drive and monitor my tire wear. Thanks all for the comments and suggestions, HDK.

The HACK · 01-25-2016, 02:16 PM

For street use I'd dial in some light "toe-in" rather than zero toe. With zero toe and light negative camber, the camber is going to toe-out when you brake, leading to the accelerated inner tread wear.

Take it back and have them add in ~1/16th" toe-in. Won't affect handling much, and will extend the life of your tires significantly.

Steeler · 01-25-2016, 03:24 PM

^^^ great tip Hack

Twixboy · 01-26-2016, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdoublehcubed

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe with the stock pins in place you can run of maximum negative camber of something like -0.7. To get up to 1.5 you definitely have to have the pins out. Which is totally fine for the car, just didn't want you to be surprised by that at the alignment shop.

I was just looking at my last alignment report and it reported 1/8" toe-in with -1.3 deg camber in the front and 1/6" toe-in with -2.9 deg camber in the rear. He said that's "BMW spec" whatever that means, and my pins are definitely still in. I have no idea what the pins do though. Do you mean he has to take the pins out, do the alignment, then put them back in? Or do the pins need to remain out to achieve such a low negative camber?

HankDKrank · 01-26-2016, 10:23 AM

From what I gather/read, the pins are there to assist the initial assembly. I saw a video of someone driving them out (of an E46) with a hammer and just leaving them out. I noticed that mine have allen heads so may screw out. With the pins removed the stock camber range is somewhat less limited - but (based on reading) don't think you can get much past -1.5. I am guessing year and product models may vary.

Have also read that one full turn of tie rod equates to .24 degrees of toe (again on an E46). I may dial in some toe myself based on further research and scheming. Plan to play with my laser level some and see if I can get some consistent readings based on that or maybe rigging up some toe boards. This (toe/camber/caster) appears to be an area with a lot of opinions, lots of trial and error, testing, compromise, etc.. Science and art... I am learning and will take my time. Thanks for the input - it helps to hear what others do.

BTW - really like the new Cooper tires. They are all season and I do believe there will be noticeably less grip on dry surface but ride is improved.

01-08-2016, 03:39 PM	#1
HankDKrank Seasoned Novice 9 Rep 54 Posts Drives: 08 Z4 Roadster Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Dallas, TX iTrader: (0)	Front Tire Wear Pattern Is this normal front tire wear (inside shoulder gone)? Michelin Pilots with (guessing) 25-30 K on them. I knew they we about due but was alarmed to see cord showing on the inside when I had the wheels off this week. Thanks, HDK Attached Images __________________ >>>>>>>>>> .HanK.D.KranK. <<<<<<<<<<
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01-08-2016, 04:23 PM	#2
longress Second Lieutenant 105 Rep 233 Posts Drives: 2007 Z4M Coupe Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Wyoming iTrader: (2)	Caused by negative camber setting.
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01-12-2016, 08:43 AM	#4
ShakyDog Captain 183 Rep 623 Posts Drives: 2007 Z4 3.0i Alpine White/Red Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Missouri iTrader: (4)	My last tires off of the front looked the same on my 3.0i. I had them align when the new ones were installed. Steve
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01-12-2016, 02:47 PM	#5
Shipkiller Colonel 187 Rep 2,138 Posts Drives: Me Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Virginia Beach iTrader: (3) Garage List 2008 BMW Z4M Coupe [8.50] 2003 BMW Z4 Roadster [8.33]	inTgr8r is correct. But, I think each suspension is a little different. I also run zero toe but when I set my camber above -2.7 I get the same very high wear on the inner shoulder of the tire. When I back it down to -2.5 all is good. Please, if you can or know, report what your alignment settings are.
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01-12-2016, 04:38 PM	#6
HankDKrank Seasoned Novice 9 Rep 54 Posts Drives: 08 Z4 Roadster Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Dallas, TX iTrader: (0)	I plan to have FCAB's replaced and new tires all around tomorrow. Friday I will take to get aligned. Have already been to frame and alignment shop and discussed with them. They are old school and will work with me. From what I have learned so far, I think zero toe and slight camber is what I will go with. I just am not certain what camber will be the best. Car is Daily Driver and may autocross once or twice a year. I will sacrifice competitive handling for better tire wear. I was thinking camber of -1 or so but it sounds like I could go higher, say 1.5 to 2. I will see what it measures before changes and go from there. Thanks for the replies and I will update. Questions: My FCAB's are worn/cracked but not total trash; could they affect to such degree? Is there a recommended camber? __________________ >>>>>>>>>> .HanK.D.KranK. <<<<<<<<<<
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01-25-2016, 02:03 PM	#9
HankDKrank Seasoned Novice 9 Rep 54 Posts Drives: 08 Z4 Roadster Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Dallas, TX iTrader: (0)	Okay - got new SuperFlex FCAB's and installed. Got new Cooper Zeon RS3-A tires all around. Took to alignment shop this morning and they told me front camber is -1.25 on both sides and toe is at zero (very close to those #'s). They did not change or loosen anything. They had car for 45 minutes, drove it, and told me there was no charge, just come back again. Went to Dallas Frame and Alignment - they had a Kenworth in next stall - cranking on it's front end. Good guys. So - either my tire wear was due to FCAB's being worn (one fell apart when removed, one was quite cracked), normal settings/wear, or both. One of those things that I am just now "owning" as I have had her all of seven months and don't know prior two owners. I will just enjoy the drive and monitor my tire wear. Thanks all for the comments and suggestions, HDK. __________________ >>>>>>>>>> .HanK.D.KranK. <<<<<<<<<< Last edited by HankDKrank; 01-25-2016 at 02:07 PM.. Reason: add
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01-25-2016, 02:16 PM	#10
The HACK Midlife Crises Racing Silent but Deadly Class 1821 Rep 5,337 Posts Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2021 Tesla Model 3 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day iTrader: (1)	For street use I'd dial in some light "toe-in" rather than zero toe. With zero toe and light negative camber, the camber is going to toe-out when you brake, leading to the accelerated inner tread wear. Take it back and have them add in ~1/16th" toe-in. Won't affect handling much, and will extend the life of your tires significantly. __________________ Sitting on a beat-up office chair in front of a 5 year old computer in a basement floor, sipping on stale coffee watching a bunch of meaningless numbers scrolling aimlessly on a dimly lit 19” monitor.
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01-25-2016, 03:24 PM	#11
Steeler Colonel 2428 Rep 2,704 Posts Drives: Built not Bought 04 Z4 VF Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kitchener Ontario Canada iTrader: (2)	^^^ great tip Hack __________________ W2A Intercooled Vortech V3Si, custom ducting, Alpha N, 60# Bosch,2.62 pulley, multi port WMI, Severn Tuning(pokeybritches), Tial, magnaflow,SS race muffler, 42 design,3.91LSD, H&R, Hotchkis,ST coils,Konis, Megan camber arms, AKG SS, Nylon mounts, Poly bushings, Carbon interior, CF Aero.APEX
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01-26-2016, 10:23 AM	#13
HankDKrank Seasoned Novice 9 Rep 54 Posts Drives: 08 Z4 Roadster Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Dallas, TX iTrader: (0)	From what I gather/read, the pins are there to assist the initial assembly. I saw a video of someone driving them out (of an E46) with a hammer and just leaving them out. I noticed that mine have allen heads so may screw out. With the pins removed the stock camber range is somewhat less limited - but (based on reading) don't think you can get much past -1.5. I am guessing year and product models may vary. Have also read that one full turn of tie rod equates to .24 degrees of toe (again on an E46). I may dial in some toe myself based on further research and scheming. Plan to play with my laser level some and see if I can get some consistent readings based on that or maybe rigging up some toe boards. This (toe/camber/caster) appears to be an area with a lot of opinions, lots of trial and error, testing, compromise, etc.. Science and art... I am learning and will take my time. Thanks for the input - it helps to hear what others do. BTW - really like the new Cooper tires. They are all season and I do believe there will be noticeably less grip on dry surface but ride is improved. __________________ >>>>>>>>>> .HanK.D.KranK. <<<<<<<<<<
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