N52 lifter noise

[papak]

Due to work constraints, I've had my E86 up on stands now for over a month. I started out by doing an oil (5w20 Syntec) and filter change, followed by new struts and shocks. I finally got to changing the ATF fluid and pan the other day. As I was running the engine to warm the transmission, I noticed a distinct hydraulic lifter noise that wasn't present prior to this set of projects. The oil level was at the midpoint on the scale so I added about half a quart.

Can I assume that this will go away when I get the car back on the road or is this a significant problem that needs to be addressed? I still have to replace the eccentric shaft seal (valve cover gasket as well) so is this the time to replace the noisy lifter/lifters? Any way to do this without removing the cams? Can it be done without removing the head?

[papak]

I got the car back on the ground this afternoon and had a chance to drive it a bit. The new shocks and struts are a great improvement and the lifter noise went away, at least for now. I am left wondering if I have an incipient problem that will crop again when I let it sit too long. Is that the normal course with these N52 lifters? Nice to see that the transmission fluid change went off without a hitch as well.

[m3griff]

5w-20? Is it LL-01 approved? Usually go with 5w-30 or 0w-40. Regardless, the best thing to do to eliminate the noise is drive the car hard. Mine makes the noise after sitting for a long time, but it all clears up with higher revs and extended drives

[papak]

I mis-stated. I used 5w40 Syntec, an approved oil. Everything seems fine now but I am once again headed on the road and i will sit for another couple of weeks. Oh well...

[v3.2mc]

if the car has the original head, you will always have lifter noise. the updated head has an anti-flowback valve that is not in the OE part.

0W-40 & 5W-40 are a step in the right direction as its sheer at temp is much less than 5W-30. the noise will still exist after cold start and long dormancy, but should be gone at running temp.

if the car has any warranty left, consider asking BMW to upgrade your head.

[elerner61]

It just needs a little Italian tune up!

[falconpunch]

Originally Posted by v3.2mc

if the car has the original head, you will always have lifter noise. the updated head has an anti-flowback valve that is not in the OE part.

0W-40 & 5W-40 are a step in the right direction as its sheer at temp is much less than 5W-30. the noise will still exist after cold start and long dormancy, but should be gone at running temp.

Could you elaborate on the above? I've always stuck with the standard 5W-30 but perhaps there's a better oil to put in it over the winter. Never really thought about that, but it makes sense. I just don't know enough about differences in oils.

I drive my '06 Coupe (3L N52 engine) daily even in winter, which works fine except for fairly loud lifter ticking for a couple minutes if I've let it get all the way cold. I know it isn't doing anything terrible, just the way the engine is built, etc... but it must sound to naive passerby like my BMW is on it's last legs or something!!

Maybe a different viscosity would help?? Maybe it would resist draining from the lifters in a short period, since it happens to me even after just an 8-hour workday sitting in the cold garage.

[v3.2mc]

Originally Posted by falconpunch

Could you elaborate on the above? I've always stuck with the standard 5W-30 but perhaps there's a better oil to put in it over the winter. Never really thought about that, but it makes sense. I just don't know enough about differences in oils.

I drive my '06 Coupe (3L N52 engine) daily even in winter, which works fine except for fairly loud lifter ticking for a couple minutes if I've let it get all the way cold. I know it isn't doing anything terrible, just the way the engine is built, etc... but it must sound to naive passerby like my BMW is on it's last legs or something!!

Maybe a different viscosity would help?? Maybe it would resist draining from the lifters in a short period, since it happens to me even after just an 8-hour workday sitting in the cold garage.

to be clear... i am not an oil-anything engineer.

it is known that oil breaks down over time. installing 5w-30 into your car means that it will eventually, through sheering, become something thinner. an example of this is some owners of s54's and s65's sending in samples of their used 10w-60 and finding that the oil has been degrading into a 0w-40. (i can try and find links to some of this information upon request... i'm at work right now and do not have the time to search for it here.)

the OE n52's issue is the reverse of the above example. the 5w-30 is fine for original installation, but due to a lack of anti-flowback valve this creates a problem when the oil gets old. the goal is to keep the oil as close to, or higher than, original viscosity for the duration between oil changes. higher viscosity means slower flowing (under gravity, not pumped pressure) and therefore more oil stays in the head during engine off periods. if the vehicle is stored, this change will likely do nothing for you, as every drop of oil will drain to the low end over time anyway. your issue is completely normal for a cold start situation, especially after sitting all night or during the day at work.

i run 0w-40 mobil1 in both of my n52-equipped, driven-daily e9x's, and have noticed FAR less noise from the top end. there is still noise, but it is rare and only on the coldest of cold days... and only on start-up. both of these cars have 110k+ miles on them.

i'm sure someone else here can get more in detail if you find the above too general.

-eric

[Aries326]

Originally Posted by v3.2mc

if the car has the original head, you will always have lifter noise. the updated head has an anti-flowback valve that is not in the OE part.

0W-40 & 5W-40 are a step in the right direction as its sheer at temp is much less than 5W-30. the noise will still exist after cold start and long dormancy, but should be gone at running temp.

if the car has any warranty left, consider asking BMW to upgrade your head.

Is it confirmed that the heads were upgraded and used in the N52 sometime in 2008 or should all N52s with ticking eventually need the head replaced?

I've read reports where lifters were replaced and that was the final solution. Others needed to have the heads replaced as well.

[v3.2mc]

Originally Posted by Aries326

Is it confirmed that the heads were upgraded and used in the N52 sometime in 2008 or should all N52s with ticking eventually need the head replaced?

I've read reports where lifters were replaced and that was the final solution. Others needed to have the heads replaced as well.

i believe the cutoff you are speaking of is the n52n.

n52 = no anti-flowback valve
n52n = w/ valve

[falconpunch]

Originally Posted by v3.2mc

to be clear... i am not an oil-anything engineer.

it is known that oil breaks down over time. installing 5w-30 into your car means that it will eventually, through sheering, become something thinner. an example of this is some owners of s54's and s65's sending in samples of their used 10w-60 and finding that the oil has been degrading into a 0w-40. (i can try and find links to some of this information upon request... i'm at work right now and do not have the time to search for it here.)

the OE n52's issue is the reverse of the above example. the 5w-30 is fine for original installation, but due to a lack of anti-flowback valve this creates a problem when the oil gets old. the goal is to keep the oil as close to, or higher than, original viscosity for the duration between oil changes. higher viscosity means slower flowing (under gravity, not pumped pressure) and therefore more oil stays in the head during engine off periods. if the vehicle is stored, this change will likely do nothing for you, as every drop of oil will drain to the low end over time anyway. your issue is completely normal for a cold start situation, especially after sitting all night or during the day at work.

i run 0w-40 mobil1 in both of my n52-equipped, driven-daily e9x's, and have noticed FAR less noise from the top end. there is still noise, but it is rare and only on the coldest of cold days... and only on start-up. both of these cars have 110k+ miles on them.

i'm sure someone else here can get more in detail if you find the above too general.

-eric

Awesome, thanks! I wasn't really thinking of it in terms of viscosity changing as the oil breaks down, but of course that makes sense.

This problem just sucks because in winter I'm only driving from home to work and back (just like 5 miles each way). I try to rev it a bit higher to make sure the oil gets dispersed to the headers during the trip. That helps it go away faster as others have noted.

In the summer I drive it much more, which would help the problem, but of course the lifters are quiet as a mouse in the summer anyway!!

[Aries326]

Damn. I only got the lifters replaced but since then, I haven't had problems with ticking. I'm sure somewhere down the road, ticking will come back.