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      03-07-2018, 11:06 AM   #1
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So we're building a garage

So, we might be building a garage.

I say "might" because I am still researching the total cost of doing so, specifically how much our taxes will go up and how much our insurance will go up. I'm more concerned about the former than the latter; we haven't been assessed since 1993, and some of the numbers I hear from other folks around here are a *whole* lot higher than what we're currently paying. If anyone has experience in that regard I'd appreciate hearing it.

I hired an architect, hopefully that will be money well spent. Our property presents some challenges which is why I went this route.

The plan at this point is for a 3-ish car garage; two bays for our dailies and one bay for a fun car / work area. I plan to put a lift in the 3rd bay.

I'd love to hear others' experiences with this process. This is a first for me! All of my other structure purchases were existing buildings, this is our first time starting from scratch.
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      03-07-2018, 01:04 PM   #2
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I have done several upgrades on my home over the 20 yrs(for one thing finished the third floor attic space into a loft which added 500ft2 with no impact on taxes). I would not think a garage would have a big impact in any event as it isn't finished space.
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      03-07-2018, 03:58 PM   #3
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Depends on the local appraisal district. I'm really surprised the local CAD hasn't assessed you (appraised you?) since 1993. Here in the People's Republik on the Colorado, the land/improvements value for our home is raised every freaking year by the County and it's up to the homeowner to get an independent appraisal done if we want to contest the evaluation.

You probably need to get with the local taxing authority and find out what might trigger a new appraisal. And find out what kind of development/building permits you'll need.

I've already got an oversized 2-car attached to the house - I'd love to add a standalone metal shop building with room for 2 more PLUS work space and a small kitchen/half-bath/lounge space overhead. Probably a 26' depth x 40' width x 18' height (half open to the roof and the other half with the overhead man-cave).

Maybe after I get the kids through college.....
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      03-07-2018, 05:12 PM   #4
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Interior work can fly under the regulatory radar pretty easily. A 3-bay garage, not so much.

Our assessed value goes up every year too, but it's still woefully below actual market value. I did some digging into what might happen if we get a full reassessment -- it ain't pretty. We could be looking at a 50% increase in the property taxes. Or more.

The architect will be doing the permit stuff once we know what/where/how we want to proceed. That means there is no hiding from the township.

Eh, it might work out okay -- we have a very large space inside the house that is used solely for storage, and when they did the assessment back in 1993 they counted it as living space. I didn't complain because our taxes actually went down, unlike everyone else's, because we had just bought it in 1992 and so had a pretty high valuation. The county-wide reassessment resulted in a millage drop which dropped our tax bill quite a bit.
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      03-07-2018, 05:15 PM   #5
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Pennsylvania is a bit weird in its approach to property valuation. "Almost one-third of the state’s 67 counties haven’t completed a complete countywide reassessment of property values in more than 25 years, according to the state’s Local Government Commission.
Twelve of them last did a complete reevaluation of property values in the 1970s and three counties — Butler, Franklin and Lackawanna — last did their reassessments in the 1960's."

At any rate, from a tax view it'll be a crap shoot as to how it comes down. More importantly, you're going to love it and will have wished you had done it earlier. Built mine 11 years ago (with lift)...it's a wonderful place to work...and play.
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      03-07-2018, 08:54 PM   #6
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      03-08-2018, 07:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
I'd love to hear others' experiences with this process. This is a first for me! All of my other structure purchases were existing buildings, this is our first time starting from scratch.
It was the same for me wdb...I had never gone through the process and because of initially getting turned off by the first builder I contacted, I thought I had made a mistake thinking I could pull it off. I found the look I wanted on the internet (to be a match to the house) and knew how many cars I had to house, and, like you, knew that one bay would be for the lift. Other than that, I was pretty much clueless. So I started hanging out on garagejournal.com where I got lots of ideas that coincided with what I envisioned. Then I found the builder that actually listened and understood what I wanted and I was off and running.
Things to consider:
As for lifts, many require 220v. The concrete floor must be of a certain thickness, the concrete used must be of a certain psi, and you're gonna want it level.
You'll want water (which also means sewage)...I've got a laundry tub sink and a toilet.
You'll want cable/internet.
The bays for the daily drivers probably would do well with drains.
Consider what you'll do with the floor...I went with a two part epoxy coating.
If you want to be able to hang out there in winter and summer, insulating, heating, and air conditioning should be planned as part deal...rather than thinking you'll add it at a later time.
Grading and paving the driveway got me surprised with the cost.
Make the garage deep enough (a 26'-28' depth) so there's room for the workbench...leaving a good deal of space between it and the cars.
You'll want plenty of lighting, and plenty of electrical outlets...I wish I had more.
That's all that comes to mind at the moment...if I think of anything else I'll be back, but I want to warn it's a long process with lots of visits from the township's building inspector, lots of dust and dirt, and lots of check writing LOL.
As I said, you'll love it!
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      03-08-2018, 10:22 AM   #8
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You might also consider an enclosed space for a large air compressor (to cut down on the noise of the compressor running). And you can also plumb some air compressor outlets in 3-4 spaces around the shop so you don't always have to deal with a long compressor hose. That's on my list for my dream garage.
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      03-08-2018, 12:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadroach View Post
You might also consider an enclosed space for a large air compressor (to cut down on the noise of the compressor running)....
That's an idea I really wish I would have done. Still haven't corrected it either. But because I mostly use cordless impacts, I don't have to rely that much on compressed air. As far as piping the air, here again over on garagejournal.com there are garages where they've done beautiful jobs of routing the pipe. For me, I mounted a retractable air hose reel under the workbench...another idea gotten from that forum.

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      03-08-2018, 12:30 PM   #10
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I built a smaller single bay garage about 5 years ago and I made sure to have a storage loft with fixed stairs in the attic space. I've got all our summer furniture and snow tires stored up there. Fixed stairs are a must if you are bringing up heavy items. Be sure that you order the correct type and height of roof truss if you want to do the same.
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      03-08-2018, 08:30 PM   #11
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Thanks all! I told the architect the rafters needed to support weight so I trust he will take it from there. I love the idea of an enclosure for the compressor. A guy down the road put his in a box outside the building -- now I know why. I also told the architect that I planned a lift. Drains in the floor = environmental impact here so that is still under discu$$ion.
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      03-09-2018, 06:56 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
Thanks all! I told the architect the rafters needed to support weight so I trust he will take it from there. I love the idea of an enclosure for the compressor. A guy down the road put his in a box outside the building -- now I know why. I also told the architect that I planned a lift. Drains in the floor = environmental impact here so that is still under discu$$ion.
And also make sure that the trusses are pitched so that you can stand upright in the attic. You don't want the roof to be low, forcing you to bend while you're up there.
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      03-09-2018, 08:12 AM   #13
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Lots of great ideas here for you.
One of the best things I ever did around here is my garage that I can use year round.

+1 to getting the compressor outside of the work area.
You still hear it but it makes a HUGE difference.

I highly recommend slotted racedeck flooring tiles .
It's super comfortable to work on compared concrete and stays clean for a long time because the dust & dirt falls through.
I just run around with the shop vac every couple of weeks (or less)

My project was a little different in that it was a reno rather than a new build.
http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1219652
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      03-09-2018, 08:38 AM   #14
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Liftmaster makes some awesome direct-drive garage door openers. No chains to deal with, battery backup so they work during a power failure, remote wi fi access through a phone APP, and a ton of neat goodies like laser parking guides for tight spaces.

https://www.liftmaster.com/for-homes...es/model-8500w
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      03-10-2018, 04:34 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3798j View Post
Pennsylvania is a bit weird in its approach to property valuation. "Almost one-third of the state’s 67 counties haven’t completed a complete countywide reassessment of property values in more than 25 years, according to the state’s Local Government Commission.
Twelve of them last did a complete reevaluation of property values in the 1970s and three counties — Butler, Franklin and Lackawanna — last did their reassessments in the 1960's."

At any rate, from a tax view it'll be a crap shoot as to how it comes down. More importantly, you're going to love it and will have wished you had done it earlier. Built mine 11 years ago (with lift)...it's a wonderful place to work...and play.

That's a nice joint my friend. Any pics from inside you'd like to share?
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      03-10-2018, 07:10 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
That's a nice joint my friend. Any pics from inside you'd like to share?
Thanks! I'll make it a point to put some more up as this thread progresses. Efthreeoh, your view on preference for two post lifts is shared by many, but I'll give you my take on why I went 4 post. Foremost is I wasn't comfortable that I'd confidently select the correct lift points on some of my (and my friends) cars...while unibodies like the Z4 are easy, pickups and some body on frame vehicles aren't...plus I've got old eyes and knees too. So I chose an ALI approved 9000lb 4 poster by Direct Lift with two of their 4500lb rolling hydraulic lifts. Standing under the car it's very easy to position the lifting pads. So far I've dropped axles, rebushed leaf springs, rebuilt suspensions, done brakes, and replaced a clutch. Yeah, on some of those projects a 2 post would have been easier and I can see where a more professional wrench would find a 4 post a pain, but honestly, I really have no regrets. Plus, I park a vehicle under a vehicle too.






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      03-10-2018, 08:27 AM   #17
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^^^ Very interesting alternative! I like the safety angle; I was a professional mechanic for several years and know firsthand the dangers of putting a car on a 2-poster incorrectly. The 4-poster pretty much eliminates that. Plus with those sliding jacks you have a *heck* of a lot of options.

Oh and your GT6, drool. I think I drooled over it once or twice before.
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      03-10-2018, 09:26 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3798j View Post
Thanks! I'll make it a point to put some more up as this thread progresses. Efthreeoh, your view on preference for two post lifts is shared by many, but I'll give you my take on why I went 4 post. Foremost is I wasn't comfortable that I'd confidently select the correct lift points on some of my (and my friends) cars...while unibodies like the Z4 are easy, pickups and some body on frame vehicles aren't...plus I've got old eyes and knees too. So I chose an ALI approved 9000lb 4 poster by Direct Lift with two of their 4500lb rolling hydraulic lifts. Standing under the car it's very easy to position the lifting pads. So far I've dropped axles, rebushed leaf springs, rebuilt suspensions, done brakes, and replaced a clutch. Yeah, on some of those projects a 2 post would have been easier and I can see where a more professional wrench would find a 4 post a pain, but honestly, I really have no regrets. Plus, I park a vehicle under a vehicle too.





Man, what I nice selection of hardware! I've really have got no true issues with 4 posters as they serve dual purpose as convenient storage and suitable for auto work, but my comments were more geared towards pure repair work, because a 2-post leaves the underside and wheels completely free and the lift height is infinitely adjustable (if you are comfortable not setting down on the locks). Any type of lift is better than a floor jack and jackstands...

Not knowing the OP was a professional mechanic in a past life, I was trying to make sure he gave thought to his lift choice. My garage is a workshop rather than for car storage (I built a carport for the cars closer to the house). I keep my 45-horse New Holland tractor parked in the lift bay. With the rollbar up, the tractor wouldn't fit under a 4 poster . I've never had an issue with locating the lift arms on anything I've worked on. Modern BMWs are a cinch with the lifting pads. The body-on-frame stuff have pointers on the frame that mark the lift points. The Rotary I have came with a booklet of the lift points for all the US-Market cars for sale (up to 2004 - when I installed it). I've not checked, but I'm sure Rotary updates the list yearly. You place the left front wheel either behind, on, or in front of the locating plate, dependent upon wheelbase. Simple enough in my book.
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      03-10-2018, 10:24 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Man, what I nice selection of hardware! I've really have got no true issues with 4 posters as they serve dual purpose as convenient storage and suitable for auto work, but my comments were more geared towards pure repair work, because a 2-post leaves the underside and wheels completely free and the lift height is infinitely adjustable (if you are comfortable not setting down on the locks). Any type of lift is better than a floor jack and jackstands....
Agreed, the 2-poster is the better lift for pure repair work. And it can double as storage too, so long as you don't mind the wheels hanging -- or maybe someone makes a set of channels to fix that? My comments were mostly from surprise at how versatile a well equipped 4-poster can be.
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      03-10-2018, 10:53 AM   #20
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there are advantages and disadvantages no matter which lift style is used.

If I was starting from scratch, a floor level double scissor would be my choice. (I have no need for stacked storage)
I love having no posts in the way for working around the car when cleaning & detailing
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      03-10-2018, 02:33 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
Agreed, the 2-poster is the better lift for pure repair work. And it can double as storage too, so long as you don't mind the wheels hanging -- or maybe someone makes a set of channels to fix that? My comments were mostly from surprise at how versatile a well equipped 4-poster can be.
I live on a river, so on occasion I will store my vehicles in the garage if we are going to have very inclement weather and chance of a major flood event. I can get the Z4 and Z3 in the lift bay, stacked, with the Honda MC tucked up front (Z3's are short ). The wood shop side I can get the H3T in there and then batten down the hatches. I throw the tractor under the carport which is near a small creek because cast iron doesn't float very well. The rear tires are filled with ethylene glycol for weight counterbalance to the front bucket.

The E90 has to fend for himself at this point...

Good luck with getting the real man cave built.
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      05-19-2018, 12:52 PM   #22
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Thought I'd drop an update in here.

I've been hemming and hawing over lifts. Two post, four post, do I have the height, blah blah. My basic concern is that the design accommodates a useful lift; I'd hate to build the garage and then find that I'm stuck with a scissor lift.

The major item sticking in my craw at the moment is, where does the overhead garage door go if there is a car up on the lift? The design calls for 12' ceilings, but the doors are either 8' or 10'. What happens to the other 2' or 4'? Let's say I have a 4-poster and I want to stack cars for storage. How can I simultaneously have the door open so I can pull a car in/out, AND have a car up in the air?

We need a variance from the township. Just getting started with all of that so very much on the learning curve.

We've started asking for bids. My neighbor is a contractor and wants to bid on the job, plus the architect has some folks he trusts to do good work. We'll see what comes back. Based on my neighbor's guesstimate we are in the budget ballpark.

More as it happens. I'm sure you're all on the edge of your seats.
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