|
|
SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS! |
Post Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
04-21-2016, 10:56 AM | #1 |
Lieutenant
105
Rep 404
Posts |
So I have always had the intent to go f/I on my z4mc but recently have had some second thoughts.
My original plans were to build for 480-510 whp /350 ft lbs on a stock block, with a lot of emphasis on cooling. A higher boost option (9-11psi with meth, and utilization of the sport button to activate high boost) and a standard boost level of 4-6psi for regular driving. But I'm at the point now where I don't know if I'm ready to go all in yet. Especially for track driving. So I have been researching other na options. (Note, I tried to approximate most of these numbers off of Ttfs dyno. Ofcourse all dynos read differently, and even different runs on the same dyno differ, but it atleast minimizes the variance some.) So let's talk some numbers, now ofcourse these are all averages and approximates, and only peak power. In most cases a better power curve is more desirable then just peak power. Also, let's assume each level has been re tuned from previous. Stock s54 (on avg) -275whp/235 ft lbs -s54 with exhaust, headers, cat less section 1, dyno tune, pullies (basically everything but csl airbox, and cams) (results will vary based on header type, exhaust)~5k -300-315whp/260ft lbs -s54 with all of above plus cams and 3.91 or 4.10-$8k -330-340whp/275ft lbs -s54 with all of the above and csl intake~10k -350-365whp/275 ft lbs -s54 with all of the above plus 3.5L stoker, ported heads-$15k+ -400whp, 285 ft lbs Add e85 to any of these( if swap lines) and get 5-10% more with Ttfs tune. (Only problem is frank can tune our Dme to swap back and forget between pump and e85 like he can on the m3) Now we all know f/I is the best bang for your buck on our engines, but the more I track my m coupe the more I worry about reliability, mainly issues with cooling and heat soak. I believe if I was to do a proper time trial supercharged s54 car, I would end up spending another 5k to make sure cooling and drivetrain are up to handle things. But at the end of the day the kit would still lose power after constant runs. And all of this still doesn't take into consideration the affect of 150% more power on a car and what else needs to be upgraded (brakes, suspension, etc) So I currently make 307whp, and 270 ft lbs with euro headers, dkf section 1, rpis and a Ttfs dyno tune. I have focused "adding lightness" but have reached the point where I am at an end, unless I start to replace body panels. My engine seems to make a lot of torque and I'm happy with everything about it. But would like a bit more (like always). I'm leaning towards a differential upgrade 4.10 and cams. I cant justify a 2500 carbon intake (especially since I have been told I may loose torque), nor a 10k Stroker kit. I think cams may be a better option, however s54 cams are still an unknown field with a small sample size. That and know one really knows when you need to replace your followers (based on cam size I assume). There is also another option of doing e85 and a bump in compression with heads. But that's also uncharted territory, and may not be worth it, nor is e85 that readily available around me. lastly, by increasing the red line to say 9000, that opens up a lot more power in the car with a proper set of cams. Perhaps head work, including a listened valvetrain to do so with proper flowing heads would net decent gains? But that also comes at high price Lots of thoughts! |
04-21-2016, 12:22 PM | #2 |
Down Under!!
1621
Rep 4,294
Posts |
If your not gonna go the SC route, (which you should, and your mind knows you should if your searching for max output from the S54), then id go the VAC Stroker kit.
https://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac...-kit-p757.aspx carbon box, and some really nice suspension (none of this bulk made crap), and before doing anything, id go and talk to some of the guys that build S54 race engines and ask them whats what. seriously, searching for NA power out of a S54 gets pretty darn expensive for not much bang for buck.
__________________
2007 EuroSpec Z4///MC - Building/Developing Z4 GT3
Powered by |
Appreciate
0
|
04-21-2016, 05:29 PM | #3 |
Colonel
2428
Rep 2,702
Posts
Drives: Built not Bought 04 Z4 VF
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kitchener Ontario Canada
|
Check out TTFS he does some incredible things with the E46 & 90 M3's.
Maybe some of that could trickle down to the Z4 platform. His Prima Kit Plus and Prima Elite system is one thing I would look into.
__________________
W2A Intercooled Vortech V3Si, custom ducting, Alpha N, 60# Bosch,2.62 pulley, multi port WMI, Severn Tuning(pokeybritches), Tial, magnaflow,SS race muffler, 42 design,3.91LSD, H&R, Hotchkis,ST coils,Konis, Megan camber arms, AKG SS, Nylon mounts, Poly bushings, Carbon interior, CF Aero.APEX
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-21-2016, 07:20 PM | #4 |
Private First Class
14
Rep 164
Posts
Drives: 08 Z4M Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston, MA
|
N/A power
Hello,
After a year-plus hiatus, I'm back. If pure power is what you want, then you cant beat supercharging. FI and track driving (depending on how much you do) don't always go hand in hand unless you really have all of the cooling issues sorted out (all you have to do is open the posts of all the limp mode headaches people went through before getting things working reliably) I decided to go the N/A route, and am happy I did. I think it fits the chassis well. No overheating to worry abt, no limp modes, pure N/A goodness. At this point I have just about every N/A mod you can get before going to an all out bottom end build (hopefully this winter The car is making 334 SAE whp on a Dynojet (have to make sure when you quote whp numbers you are referring to the same mfgr dyno), and make sure they are SAE corrected (uncorrected I am running 349whp) On the car currently (just engine) Turner underdrive pulleys Fabspeed headers DKF section 1 (no cats anywhere) RPI exhaust Evolve Carbon airbox Epic Tune 288/280 cams replaced rod bearings removed A/C Dinan3.91 Differential light-weight flywheel remember the differential will not change whp, much in the same way you will have the same whp reading regardless of whether you do a 3rd, 4th or 5th gear pull (always try to do in the gear that has a 1:1 ratio) as far as power goes, the cams, headers and airbox, all made the most noticeable gains in power (were added separately) Also before you start adding gobbs of power, decide what your ultimate goal is.... if you eventually want to time trial / hillclimb, you will start seeing your points and thus car competing class skyrocket once you go forced induction. as a side note and shameless self plug, Samsonas dog-box trans w/ straight cut gears have made it in to the beast this yr! |
Appreciate
0
|
04-23-2016, 10:42 AM | #5 |
Captain
496
Rep 869
Posts |
Most bang for the buck are new cams and a tune. A CSL intake is not needed until after 480 hp since the standard intake is so well made. Cams, tune, headers and an exhaust with race cats would be my choice.
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-23-2016, 11:44 PM | #6 | |
Lieutenant
105
Rep 404
Posts |
Quote:
However I just can't justify a stroker kit in consideration with value. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-23-2016, 11:45 PM | #7 | |
Lieutenant
105
Rep 404
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-23-2016, 11:46 PM | #8 | |
Lieutenant
105
Rep 404
Posts |
Quote:
Isn't the reason behind replacing them the idea that you want new cams to wear evenly with new followers? Therefore if you have a new set of cams and old followers they may wear the cams abnormally or faster? |
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-25-2016, 07:49 AM | #9 | |
Stupid as shit
23
Rep 367
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-25-2016, 11:49 AM | #10 | |
Captain
496
Rep 869
Posts |
Quote:
I'll qoute a part of my post in another thread: "Most bang for the buck is a 296/280 cam shaft, which is the maximum duration the stock valve springs can handle reliably, and a tune and that will give you about 370 hp. That's what was said in the thread, so don't shoot the messenger. However I tend to believe someone who've spend more on the engine than the car is worth and the job was done by one of the best tuners (Köhler) in Sweden when it comes to NA BMW engines." It's from the thread I made about a Swedish E46 M3 with over 400 WHP N/A. What I wrote are the specs I got from the owner of the car and a reputable BMW tuning company built his engine. http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1230186 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-25-2016, 04:15 PM | #11 | ||
Colonel
2428
Rep 2,702
Posts
Drives: Built not Bought 04 Z4 VF
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kitchener Ontario Canada
|
Quote:
Quote:
Hey if you and Frank are going to do the build, he will know best what will work for the results you are looking for. I have had conversations with Frank regarding cam durations. He says that the Vanos system has a lot of adjustment that can make longer duration cams streetable. See here for a TTFS NA build. http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...8-S54B35-Build
__________________
W2A Intercooled Vortech V3Si, custom ducting, Alpha N, 60# Bosch,2.62 pulley, multi port WMI, Severn Tuning(pokeybritches), Tial, magnaflow,SS race muffler, 42 design,3.91LSD, H&R, Hotchkis,ST coils,Konis, Megan camber arms, AKG SS, Nylon mounts, Poly bushings, Carbon interior, CF Aero.APEX
|
||
Appreciate
0
|
04-26-2016, 09:21 PM | #12 |
Private First Class
14
Rep 164
Posts
Drives: 08 Z4M Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston, MA
|
CSL Evolve Airbox has been working out well. I was one of the earlier guys with the airbox. Once I switched to the tune w/ EPIC (prior to the recent fix by Evolve) the heel-toe problem has been non-existent. I could have gone for a SC set-up cheaper than the airbox/288/280 cams, but that wasn't the point. I personally wanted to stay N/A, and don't regret it. That's just my opinion though...
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-26-2016, 11:20 PM | #13 | |
Lieutenant
105
Rep 404
Posts |
Quote:
Should I replace followers with 288/280 and more aggressive cams? And what is the gain from just cams with a custom dyno tune, on 93 with euro headers/cat less exhaust but stock intake? |
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-27-2016, 01:11 AM | #14 |
Down Under!!
1621
Rep 4,294
Posts |
id like to go the 296/288 cams.. but was wondering why nearly no one does that? its the same price..
why does everyone go for 288/280? or even 304/296..
__________________
2007 EuroSpec Z4///MC - Building/Developing Z4 GT3
Powered by |
Appreciate
0
|
04-27-2016, 01:26 AM | #15 | ||
Dog Listener
701
Rep 7,850
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
Turner has some good details on application and requirements (including new followers, etc.). Last edited by Finnegan; 04-27-2016 at 01:35 AM.. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
04-27-2016, 04:35 PM | #17 |
Captain
496
Rep 869
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-27-2016, 11:47 PM | #18 |
Down Under!!
1621
Rep 4,294
Posts |
So is 296/280 a good option? what needs to be replaced when going with this?
__________________
2007 EuroSpec Z4///MC - Building/Developing Z4 GT3
Powered by |
Appreciate
0
|
04-28-2016, 08:43 AM | #20 | |
Lieutenant
105
Rep 404
Posts |
Quote:
10-20whp? 5 trq? Or am I dreaming I have a feeling to really get the most of a high duration cam you need to raise the rev limiter to 8500 which require revised valvetrain |
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-28-2016, 09:57 AM | #21 |
Colonel
479
Rep 2,782
Posts
Drives: ESS/G-Power Z4M, VF Z4, 996tt
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles
|
I would do a carbon airbox before cams. Nothing beats that growl. A carbon airbox is also much easier to unload if you ever decide to sell your car, or worse, if it is ever wrecked.
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|