WPC Rod Bearing Time

[SaltyNC]

It's time for rod bearing replacement. My last two Blackstone reports were not good. I assume the WPC rod bearings are still the way to go. I see ECS has a set. Any recommendations, helpful hints? I haven't spoken to my indie mechanic, but would like to get someone to do this that has actual experience doing it. Maybe he has. We'll see. But, if not, are there any recommended shops that have experience with bearing replacement in North Carolina or South Carolina? I'm near Charlotte, NC.

Thanks!

Salty

[XMetal]

If you don't mind, could you post your Blackstone results? Thanks.

[antennahead]

Originally Posted by SaltyNC

It's time for rod bearing replacement. My last two Blackstone reports were not good. I assume the WPC rod bearings are still the way to go. I see ECS has a set. Any recommendations, helpful hints? I haven't spoken to my indie mechanic, but would like to get someone to do this that has actual experience doing it. Maybe he has. We'll see. But, if not, are there any recommended shops that have experience with bearing replacement in North Carolina or South Carolina? I'm near Charlotte, NC.

Thanks!

Salty

European Road and Racing in Charleston did mine. Ask for Karl.

[StickMon]

That's what I'm running.
Andrew Lang says they're a good idea, and I'll defer to him.
Also, he didn't like ARP bolts.
I thought they were a good idea since they have the dimple in the end and the stretch gauge.
Andrew said when he stretched them per ARP's recommendations on a test set of rods the bores were out of round.
He had to stretch them a good bit more to get the bores round, and he wasn't comfortable with that amount of stretch, so he used stock bolts on mine.

[SaltyNC]

Originally Posted by XMetal

If you don't mind, could you post your Blackstone results? Thanks.

Xmetal, here you go. Please note, the mileage numbers are a little goofed up on the report. I've been changing my oil around the half-marks of what the service indicator suggests, so between 6K and 7.5K miles. The last oil change was done with less mileage, because I wanted to see if the lead stayed up in the 43 PPM range. Since I was using a topside extractor for the reading with 43 PPM of lead, I could not catch the stream, but rather dipped some oil from the middle of the plastic pump housing. I knew it wouldn't be completely accurate, but the 43 PPM number was so high, I decided to check the oil again sooner than normal, and I allowed for at least a quart to drain out of the pan before I began capturing the oil, so the last number I feel confident is accurate.

What really concerned me in the last week is that I think the engine is louder than it has been in the past. It's not a knocking sound, but at idle, it just sounds different. I am going to put a stethoscope on it to see if I can isolate the sound. It could be the water pump making the noise. Someone posted a video of their water pump noise, and it sounds similar.

Salty

[SaltyNC]

Originally Posted by antennahead

European Road and Racing in Charleston did mine. Ask for Karl.

Thanks Antennahead!

Salty

[SaltyNC]

Originally Posted by StickMon

That's what I'm running.
Andrew Lang says they're a good idea, and I'll defer to him.
Also, he didn't like APR bolts.
I thought they were a good idea since they have the dimple in the end and the stretch gauge.
Andrew said when he stretched them per APR's recommendations on a test set of rods the bores were out of round.
He had to stretch them a good bit more to get the bores round, and he wasn't comfortable with that amount of stretch, so he used stock bolts on mine.

Stickmon, thanks for the info. I guess by now you have a good many miles on your WPC treated bearings. Do you think you'll need to replace them again (for a non-tracked car), or do you think the WPC treated bearings are going to be a one time and done lifetime replacement?

It has been quite awhile since I read it, but I was on a European board, and someone there believed the bearing issue was almost completely a result of start-up wear, and after a few revolutions of the engine, it was then coated in oil properly, but until then, it was basically running dry on those bearings. I thought it was an interesting idea, and thought it might come up on Zpost, but unless I missed it, it never did.

Salty

[SaltyNC]

Anyone familiar with these bearings?

http://www.bebearings.com/store/inde...products_id=27

Interesting discussion here about clearances:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...202365&page=12

Salty

[SaltyNC]

Originally Posted by XMetal

If you don't mind, could you post your Blackstone results? Thanks.

Oops, forgot attachment. Here you go, Xmetal.

Salty

[XMetal]

Originally Posted by SaltyNC

Xmetal, here you go. Please note, the mileage numbers are a little goofed up on the report. I've been changing my oil around the half-marks of what the service indicator suggests, so between 6K and 7.5K miles. The last oil change was gone with less mileage, because I wanted to see if the lead stayed up in the 43 PPM range. Since I was using a topside extractor for the reading with 43 PPM of lead, I could not catch the stream, but rather dipped some oil from the middle of the plastic pump housing. I knew it wouldn't be completely accurate, but the 43 PPM number was so high, I decided to check the oil again sooner than normal, and I allowed for at least a quart to drain out of the pan before I began capturing the oil, so the last number I feel confident is accurate.

What really concerned me in the last week is that I think the engine is louder than it has been in the past. It's not a knocking sound, but at idle, it just sounds different. I am going to put a stethoscope on it to see if I can isolate the sound. It could be the water pump making the noise. Someone posted a video of their water pump noise, and it sounds similar.

Salty

Thanks for posting the results. It's a tough call based on just one super high lead reading without copper/iron also going up. Well...iron did went up a bit, but copper remained steady, which makes it a much tougher call - I would had expected the opposite

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by XMetal

Thanks for posting the results. It's a tough call based on just one super high lead reading without copper/iron also going up. Well...iron did went up a bit, but copper remained steady, which makes it a much tougher call - I would had expected the opposite

If you wait on copper you are rolling the dice . Mine were shredded with similar results could have gone my next track day fwiw.

[inTgr8r]

^whs
Copper is the layer under lead.
IMO, If you wait for copper you are asking for trouble.

Just did mine with test showing 18ppm and lead was through to the point just before copper was showing.

[XMetal]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

^whs
Copper is the layer under lead.
IMO, If you wait for copper you are asking for trouble.

Just did mine with test showing 18ppm and lead was through to the point just before copper was showing.

So, your test results didn't show any abnormal copper level?

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by XMetal

So, your test results didn't show any abnormal copper level?

Nothing significant.
It was up 1 ppm

my lead went from 2-4 range for several years to 18ppm this last sample

[StickMon]

Originally Posted by SaltyNC

Stickmon, thanks for the info. I guess by now you have a good many miles on your WPC treated bearings. Do you think you'll need to replace them again (for a non-tracked car), or do you think the WPC treated bearings are going to be a one time and done lifetime replacement?...

33k miles on them. I don't think I'll replace them again.
I read in a thread somewhere that somebody that makes camshafts determined that our bearings are about 2/3 as wide as they should be for the horsepower the S54 makes.
So I figure they're sized for about 200 hp, which is about what you get at WOT at about 5000 rpm.
So for DD use I keep it under 5000, with a dash up to about 6500 maybe once or twice a week to have some fun and blow some carbon out.

[inTgr8r]

the other significant factor is proper warm up.
My indie says more than half of the rod bearings he does are on DD non-tracked cars. (S65 & S54)

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

the other significant factor is proper warm up.
My indie says more than half of the rod bearings he does are on DD non-tracked cars. (S65 & S54)

Warmed up or not the bearings are way to small , only way to fix is to up size the journals and rod bearings like I did .

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

Warmed up or not the bearings are way to small , only way to fix is to up size the journals and rod bearings like I did .

I agree....
I would love to do the same if it wasn't so expensive.

[SaltyNC]

Any suggestions for other things I should do while the bearings are being replaced? None of my bushings have been replaced, so I'm thinking that would be a good idea. I was already planning on replacing the guibo.

Thanks.

Salty

[SaltyNC]

Yikes! I heard this today. It went away after just a few seconds of the engine running, but I'm guessing this is a good warning to stop driving and get it into the shop. Do ya'll think this is rod knock? Bummer.

Salty

[NickyC]

Hmm, not quite sure but it doesn't sound like one to me (though my motor sure doesn't sound like that!). You'd need to give it a bit of gas for me to tell for sure. If that sound ramps up as you give it gas, I imagine that would be the dreaded rod knock.

[SaltyNC]

NickyC, it actually diminishes in loudness as I accelerate, and it completely disappears soon after the engine is cranked and begins to warm up.

Salty