For my fellow fanatics...

[Black///Mamba]

Was watching the new Top Gear, with the BMW e90 M3 vs. Lexus IS F, and pleasantly enjoying the ownage of the new M3 Killer!!! :lol. i personally find the IS F hideous, but i'd still love to drive one either way, as they posted the times of the IS F on the track, i just happened to notice what was 2 spots ahead. and it was raining when the Z4M vert was on the track.

[Crimson92]

i saw that...i was happy.....then he put up the m3 time.

[Black///Mamba]

Originally Posted by Crimson92

i saw that...i was happy.....then he put up the m3 time.

lol, its to be expected.

[Mikewarlover]

Why compare out car to a toyota. ISF= one of the most pointless sports car of 2008 and one of the biggest disappointment in the car making industry.

[jamboMR]

What time did the new M3 run?

[MTHEORY]

Here's the full list:

1 Ascari A10 1.17.3
2 Koenigsegg CCX (with TG spoiler) 1.17.6
3 Pagani Zonda F 1.18.4
4 Maserati MC12 1.18.9
5 Ferrari Enzo 1.19.0
6 Ariel Atom 1.19.5 ------ AWESOME STANDING FOR $60K!
7 Lamborghini LP640 1.19.8
8 Porsche Carrera GT 1.19.8
9 Ascari KZ1 1.20.7
10 Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren 1.20.9
11 Ferrari 599 GTB 1.21.2
12 Ford GT 1.21.9
13 Porsche GT3 RS 1.22.3 --------NOT BAD
14 Ferrari 360 CS 1.22.3
15 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 1.22.4 -------- SURPRISED IT DID SO WELL
16 Noble M15 1.22.5
17 Ferrari F430 1.22.9 ------- EXPECTED BETTER (AT LEAST THAN THE VETTE)
18 Lamborghini Murcielago 1.23.7 -------- LAME TIME
19 Pagani Zonda 1.23.8
20 Koenigsegg 1.23.9
21 Audi R8 1.24.4 ------- SURPRISED AT THIS
22 TVR Sagaris 1.24.6
23 Mitsubishi Evo FQ 400 1.24.8 -------- DAMN RICER!
24 Noble M400 1.25.0
25 Lotus Exige S 1.25.1
26 Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder 1.25.7
27 Lamborghini Gallardo 1.25.8

28 BMW Z4 M 1.26.0 ------- THIS WAS THE ROADSTER - COUPE + .3 OR .4?

29 Brabus Biturbo Roadster 1.26.2
30 Porsche Cayman 1.26.2 ---------HAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!
31 Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8
32 Mercedes-Benz CLS 55 AMG 1.26.9 ---------HAAAAA HAAAAA!!!!!!!!
33 Lotus Exige 1.26.9 -------- I KNEW IT! TOTALLY UNDERPOWERED!
34 Aston Martin Vanquish S 1.27.1
35 Aston Martin DB9 1.27.1
36 Porsche 911 GT3 1.27.2 --------- AS A Z4M OWNER, VICTORY!
37 Spyker C8 1.27.3
38 Wiesmann 1.27.9
39 BMW M3 CSL 1.28.0 ----------AH, WHA?
40 Roush Mustang 1.28.0
41 Marcos TSO GT2 1.28.2
42 Dodge Viper SRT-10 1.28.5 --------- BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD!
43 Mitsubishi Evo VIII 1.28.9
44 Porsche 911 Carrera S 1.28.9
45 Mercedes-Benz CL65 1.29
46 BMW Alpina Z8 1.29.0 --------- NOT BAD FOR A DUMP TRUCK
47 Subaru Impreza STi WRX WR1 1.29.4
48 Volkswagen Golf W12 GTI 1.29.6
49 Alfa 3.7 GTA Autodelta 1.30.0
50 Ford Shelby GT500 1.30.0
51 Vauxhall Monaro VXR 1.30.1
52 Subaru Impreza STI 1.30.1
53 Volkswagen Golf R32 1.30.4
54 Aston Martin DB7 GT 1.30.4
55 Audi S4 1.30.9
56 Porsche 911 Turbo 1.31.0
57 Vauxhall VX220 Turbo 1.31.3
58 Vauxhall VXR8 1.31.3
59 Vauxhall VXR8 1.31.3
60 New Audi TT 1.31.4
61 Honda NSX Type-R 1.31.6
62 BMW 535d 1.31.8
63 Mazda RX8 1.31.8
64 Nissan 350Z 1.31.8
65 BMW M3 1.31.8 -------- NO! SAY IT AINT SO!
66 BMW 130 1.31.9
67 Ford Focus RS 1.32.2 --------- M3, THIS IS GETTING EMBARRASSING
68 Mazda 6 MPS 1.32.2
69 Audi TT V6 1.32.7
70 Jaguar E-Type 1.32.8
71 MG ZT 1.33.0
72 MG ZT 1.33.0
73 Mercedes-Benz SL55 AMG 1.33.2
74 Holden Monaro 1.33.5
75 Renault Clio Cup 1.33.8
76 Ford Mondeo ST220 1.34.5
77 Jaguar XKR 1.34.7
78 Ford Focus ST 1.34.9
79 Volvo S60R 1.35.0
80 Ferrari 575M 1.35.2
81 Vauxhall Vectra VXR 1.35.3
82 Alfa Romeo 147 GTA 1.35.6
83 Lotus Elise 1.35.6
84 Aston Martin Vanquish 1.36.2
85 Renault Clio v6 1.36.2
86 Honda Civic Type-R 1.36.5
87 Alfa Romeo Brera 1.36.9
88 Saab 95 hot aero 1.37.9
89 Mazzer 1.38.0
90 Maserati 3200 GT 1.38.0
91 Bowler Wildcat 1.39.4
92 Bentley Arnage 1.40.8
93 Overfinch 1.44.0
94 Aston Martin DB5 1.46.0

I know this list is not scientific, and that apparently more than one "stig" drove the various cars, but it's fun anyway.

[jamboMR]

I love Top Gear Still, take some of those times with a grain of salt though because when that series first started they used to wet the track with a tanker before cars went for a run to keep all cars running consistently in the wet (without indicating it was a wet lap on the board). They later realised they weren't getting the best out of the cars and started running them in the dry when they could. So some of the times from the first couple of years are really shocking.

But the Z4M Roadster was a beautiful lap bit damp but not flooded or anything. I love how Stig had to be so brutal and have the tail out a few times to get the best out of it I'm a roadster owner but I'd have to vote opposite to what was said above and say that the coupe should certainly be a bit quicker, not slower.

[MMMazing07]

Originally Posted by Mikewarlover

Why compare out car to a toyota. ISF= one of the most pointless sports car of 2008 and one of the biggest disappointment in the car making industry.

what the heck are you talking about....... whats wrong with toyota........how was the car a disappointment .........

lexus first try at a sports sedan (let alone first sports oriented car) and they come out with one of the best automatics transmissions to date and a car able hang with the M3. which BMW has been making for years.
like to see what the next generation ISF brings.

id say bravo lexus

[MTHEORY]

Originally Posted by MMMazing07

what the heck are you talking about....... whats wrong with toyota........how was the car a disappointment .........

lexus first try at a sports sedan (let alone first sports oriented car) and they come out with one of the best automatics transmissions to date and a car able hang with the M3. which BMW has been making for years.
like to see what the next generation ISF brings.

id say bravo lexus

+1

[Mikewarlover]

Originally Posted by MMMazing07

what the heck are you talking about....... whats wrong with toyota........how was the car a disappointment .........

lexus first try at a sports sedan (let alone first sports oriented car) and they come out with one of the best automatics transmissions to date and a car able hang with the M3. which BMW has been making for years.
like to see what the next generation ISF brings.

id say bravo lexus

Yea its got a 8 speed that doesnt shift properly. Have u seen videos where on track the gear box won't let the driver downshift at certain point. I totally agree with JC's point the gear box is too complicated to be any good in a real world. What we need to simple honestly to god engineering like our M Roadster. The lexus is too harsh to be lexus on the street, it can bearly keep up with M3 on the track, slower and way less exciting than the C63 on the road and unlike the Audi RS4 it doesn't have four wheel drive. So heres my question why would u take lexus over the other three. And plz don't even mention those fake tailpipes. Honestly i really thought the ISF was gonna be a hell of a car before it came out but just like the GTR they are brilliant cars with extremely good value but they got no passion and soul and both are just engineer's play toys.

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by Mikewarlover

Yea its got a 8 speed that doesnt shift properly. Have u seen videos where on track the gear box won't let the driver downshift at certain point. I totally agree with JC's point the gear box is too complicated to be any good in a real world. What we need to simple honestly to god engineering like our M Roadster. The lexus is too harsh to be lexus on the street, it can bearly keep up with M3 on the track, slower and way less exciting than the C63 on the road and unlike the Audi RS4 it doesn't have four wheel drive. So heres my question why would u take lexus over the other three. And plz don't even mention those fake tailpipes. Honestly i really thought the ISF was gonna be a hell of a car before it came out but just like the GTR they are brilliant cars with extremely good value but they got no passion and soul and both are just engineer's play toys.

Does the gearbox have an issue or does it just not allow a downshift which could cause an overrev? If it's the latter, that's how DSG works as well.

One thing about semi-auto gearboxes other than complication, is weight. They aren't the lightest things out there. Not to mention owning a car with one outside of warranty is a scary proposition. If I had a new M3 I would want M-DCT and for sure I'd lease it.

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by MTHEORY

Here's the full list:

...

I know this list is not scientific, and that apparently more than one "stig" drove the various cars, but it's fun anyway.

Really there are too many variables such as wet, damp, or dry, temperature, to make real use of these times. The type tires make a big difference, but since they're using what the car came with that's acceptable, although our car's performance is hurt by the rubber it wears.

There's no way our car is quicker than a E46 M3 CSL around that track or any other one. If you look at times for box stock cars at Nurburgring and Hockenheim you'll see the E46 M3 CSL and new M3 are very close.

[Black///Mamba]

Originally Posted by MVF4Rrider

Really there are too many variables such as wet, damp, or dry, temperature, to make real use of these times. The type tires make a big difference, but since they're using what the car came with that's acceptable, although our car's performance is hurt by the rubber it wears.

There's no way our car is quicker than a E46 M3 CSL around that track or any other one. If you look at times for box stock cars at Nurburgring and Hockenheim you'll see the E46 M3 CSL and new M3 are very close.

yeah, i take all those numbers with a grain of salt. however, still feels good to see the Z4M so high up

[MMMazing07]

Originally Posted by Mikewarlover

Yea its got a 8 speed that doesnt shift properly. Have u seen videos where on track the gear box won't let the driver downshift at certain point. I totally agree with JC's point the gear box is too complicated to be any good in a real world. What we need to simple honestly to god engineering like our M Roadster. The lexus is too harsh to be lexus on the street, it can bearly keep up with M3 on the track, slower and way less exciting than the C63 on the road and unlike the Audi RS4 it doesn't have four wheel drive. So heres my question why would u take lexus over the other three. And plz don't even mention those fake tailpipes. Honestly i really thought the ISF was gonna be a hell of a car before it came out but just like the GTR they are brilliant cars with extremely good value but they got no passion and soul and both are just engineer's play toys.

typical BMW fanboy response. have you driven a ISF or RS4 let alone a C63.

barely keeping up with the M3 No soul in the GTR eh too complicated fully automatic tranny fake tailpipes is nothing new. you would truly base a car over one cosmetic flaw the M3 has fake side vents. I drove a ISF it made some amazing sounds and was as pleasant as a RX330 on the road. you are making assumptions off of youtube videos.

[Crimson92]

ive driven an isf on the track and while there points of i didnt like and it could still use some tweaks to make it a m3 killer , i still think its a killer first try from toyota

[Mikewarlover]

Originally Posted by MMMazing07

typical BMW fanboy response. have you driven a ISF or RS4 let alone a C63.

barely keeping up with the M3 No soul in the GTR eh too complicated fully automatic tranny fake tailpipes is nothing new. you would truly base a car over one cosmetic flaw the M3 has fake side vents. I drove a ISF it made some amazing sounds and was as pleasant as a RX330 on the road. you are making assumptions off of youtube videos.

Yes i have to admit i ve never driven C63 or Rs4 or ISF but i have driven a lot of other true sports cars from STI to Ferrari F430. So i think i know a little about cars to notice that ISF is a failure. Its just not a proper sports car it can make all the sound u want but it still will never be a true sports car.
Some cars are born as sports cars like the M3 or STI evo and ISF is not born to be a sports car. I respect lexus effort but the truth is they have failed. Plz tell me a reason to take a lexus over the other three.

[Mikewarlover]

Originally Posted by MVF4Rrider

Does the gearbox have an issue or does it just not allow a downshift which could cause an overrev? If it's the latter, that's how DSG works as well.

One thing about semi-auto gearboxes other than complication, is weight. They aren't the lightest things out there. Not to mention owning a car with one outside of warranty is a scary proposition. If I had a new M3 I would want M-DCT and for sure I'd lease it.

I think gear didn't allow downshift at certain point on the track to prevent overrev but it cuts in too early but i have to check on that. Or it was just the 8 speed is too many and doesn't really work as well. Totally agree with your point about the weight and reliability. For the new DCT i ve driven it and its wonderful a big improvement over the last gen SMG III.

[Crimson92]

Originally Posted by Mikewarlover

Yes i have to admit i ve never driven C63 or Rs4 or ISF but i have driven a lot of other true sports cars from STI to Ferrari F430. So i think i know a little about cars to notice that ISF is a failure. Its just not a proper sports car it can make all the sound u want but it still will never be a true sports car.
Some cars are born as sports cars like the M3 or STI evo and ISF is not born to be a sports car. I respect lexus effort but the truth is they have failed. Plz tell me a reason to take a lexus over the other three.

just because youve driven them doesnt automatically make you knowledgable about cars


ive been on horses but i dont pretend to know about horses.

plus the sti and evo werent born sports cars...they were born econo boxes

the m3 wasnt born a track star....it started out as a 320i


same as the isf...it started as an is


get your facts straight mr knowledgable

[Black///Mamba]

lol relax all. its all a matter of perspective. to some, the IS F is a huge success. to others, its a huge disappointment. Just as some view the Z4 as the most hideous BMW ever, and others love the look. Different strokes for different folks.

[Mikewarlover]

Originally Posted by Black///Mamba

lol relax all. its all a matter of perspective. to some, the IS F is a huge success. to others, its a huge disappointment. Just as some view the Z4 as the most hideous BMW ever, and others love the look. Different strokes for different folks.

+1

[Mikewarlover]

Originally Posted by Crimson92

just because youve driven them doesnt automatically make you knowledgable about cars


ive been on horses but i dont pretend to know about horses.

plus the sti and evo werent born sports cars...they were born econo boxes

the m3 wasnt born a track star....it started out as a 320i


same as the isf...it started as an is


get your facts straight mr knowledgable

I am sure you know more. STi and evo born as econo boxes.....

[marcus1701]

I think the Z4M is driven on the dry considering it does not have a "W" next to it like the above Gallardo. My thoughts on the ISF are....it's a cool car, you know why....because who would buy one?? I have seen 3 and I can't help but look at the guy/girl who bought one. I give kudos to less popular cars, or more rare cars like Audi R8. As far as looks go....it looks about as ugly as the new M3.