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      09-19-2017, 09:49 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eson View Post
Steve Dinan actually found the culprit to be a tiny piece of welding broken off of my newly purchased (<100 miles) ACTIVE AUTOWERKE headers - a terrible construction flaw. I questioned how the piece essentially swam back upstream into the motor, but Dinan assured me it's surprisingly plausible - someone whose opinion I value beyond measure. He/his shop verified no other failures (not intake, valvetrain, head, block, etc) anywhere else.
I can confirm this is possible, having seen an identical scenario firsthand in an header-equipped M5 that eventually required a complete engine replacement. The factory agreed with the diagnosis which in my mind seals the deal. I know, it's hard to wrap one's mind around the idea that reversion like this is possible but it apparently is.
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      09-19-2017, 10:48 PM   #24
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That’s crazy. I hope AA is going to own up to it and help you out
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      09-19-2017, 10:54 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yousefnjr View Post
That’s crazy. I hope AA is going to own up to it and help you out
They told me to kick rocks and that their opinion (entirely disregarding my explanation + PICTURES + referrals, etc) was superior to Dinan's - and that they essentially excuse themselves from all blame or defect. My battle with them is far from over, so I'll update as it progresses.
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      09-20-2017, 01:37 AM   #26
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That sucks bad. I had a 190e merc that this happened to also. It blew my mind then and thought is was a complete fluke, just as it does now. Maybe its a straight six thing LOL!

good luck
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      09-21-2017, 02:42 PM   #27
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Nissan had a huge issue with their 4 cylinder motors sucking the contents of the catalytic converters upstream into the combustion chamber. Strange but true.
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      09-22-2017, 12:40 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eson View Post
They told me to kick rocks and that their opinion (entirely disregarding my explanation + PICTURES + referrals, etc) was superior to Dinan's - and that they essentially excuse themselves from all blame or defect. My battle with them is far from over, so I'll update as it progresses.
Interesting. So pictures, explanation, and an industry expert who looked for other causes of failure, plus the concept of "what changed" didn't open even a door to "it could be possible"? What changed were headers, less than 100 miles. Accounting for the post hoc fallacy potential, we ask "what else is stainless steel in the intake or exhaust path that could have been found its way into a cylinder?" Nothing besides the weld from the header. Apply Occam's Razor, bam, we get the same result.

I get the competition angle for them potentially with Dinan (but for you given location who better to rebuild), and maybe a bit of defensiveness as a result. Was there any discussion of what would be required to make a claim they would look at and perhaps help with? What's the process? What are the requirements? If that's clear then you actually could check off the boxes I think. If not, how can you know what's need to prove a claim?

Issues happen, the unforeseen happens, and those need to be addressed. This is actually a chance for a company to shine. How a company behaves when things go wrong is a true measure of a company.

I hope your battle goes well and this gets cleared up. Maybe next spring we should meet up at Thunderhill and celebrate the car's rebirth!
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      09-24-2017, 09:41 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanne View Post
I'd probably take that as a great time to make a stroker motor. Vac has a nice kit.
I agree, if you track the car at all go this route. A couple of weeks ago I was trying to get one more track day in before going in for a major set up upgrades and at the end of our first day noticed a dramatic loss of power on my last run. Thank god we did not run into a catastrophic failure, but this is never the way you want to go home like this



We originally thought it was the Vanos and had already planned to upgrade it add a TTC 300 Hub with the cams after the event. Once we got everything finished the top end of the motor, we noticed some additional sounds in the bottom and checked the rod bearings and sure enough we slug one and the crank facing your same issue.

After weighing all the options, I thought it would be the perfect opportunity to go with 3.4 Stroker kit. After speaking with both Lang Racing and VAC, I have decided to go with the Lang Racing kit.

At the end of the day you should be looking at about 13k with labor, new oil pump and all the other additional parts. I look at a number of other options and even with a rebuild, You are still looking at 9 to 10k, I just went with this option. I think we will probably end up at 425hp once we finish.

I will also be adding the Evolve CSL Airbox, upgrading the clutch and flywheel as well.

Last edited by M-Cast; 09-24-2017 at 09:47 AM..
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      09-24-2017, 01:44 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Cast View Post
I agree, if you track the car at all go this route. A couple of weeks ago I was trying to get one more track day in before going in for a major set up upgrades and at the end of our first day noticed a dramatic loss of power on my last run. Thank god we did not run into a catastrophic failure, but this is never the way you want to go home like this



We originally thought it was the Vanos and had already planned to upgrade it add a TTC 300 Hub with the cams after the event. Once we got everything finished the top end of the motor, we noticed some additional sounds in the bottom and checked the rod bearings and sure enough we slug one and the crank facing your same issue.

After weighing all the options, I thought it would be the perfect opportunity to go with 3.4 Stroker kit. After speaking with both Lang Racing and VAC, I have decided to go with the Lang Racing kit.

At the end of the day you should be looking at about 13k with labor, new oil pump and all the other additional parts. I look at a number of other options and even with a rebuild, You are still looking at 9 to 10k, I just went with this option. I think we will probably end up at 425hp once we finish.

I will also be adding the Evolve CSL Airbox, upgrading the clutch and flywheel as well.

wow!
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      09-25-2017, 11:29 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Cast View Post
I agree, if you track the car at all go this route. A couple of weeks ago I was trying to get one more track day in before going in for a major set up upgrades and at the end of our first day noticed a dramatic loss of power on my last run. Thank god we did not run into a catastrophic failure, but this is never the way you want to go home like this



We originally thought it was the Vanos and had already planned to upgrade it add a TTC 300 Hub with the cams after the event. Once we got everything finished the top end of the motor, we noticed some additional sounds in the bottom and checked the rod bearings and sure enough we slug one and the crank facing your same issue.

After weighing all the options, I thought it would be the perfect opportunity to go with 3.4 Stroker kit. After speaking with both Lang Racing and VAC, I have decided to go with the Lang Racing kit.

At the end of the day you should be looking at about 13k with labor, new oil pump and all the other additional parts. I look at a number of other options and even with a rebuild, You are still looking at 9 to 10k, I just went with this option. I think we will probably end up at 425hp once we finish.

I will also be adding the Evolve CSL Airbox, upgrading the clutch and flywheel as well.
With locality, warranty, and reliability being forefront, I opted for a Dinan built motor. No stroker, but bored to a 3.3L, 12.1:1, CP pistons, Carillo rods, Schrick cams, etc etc and said to make 410-415 to the stock crank on a conservative tune.

That said, I have only heard positive things about Lang. He was friendly and knowledgeable in the numerous times we've spoken and will highly recommend him to those in SoCal. My only hesitation was the distance, lesser warranty, and Dinan is in my backyard. VAC on the other hand... I've been told to run. Countless times. From multiple unrelated sources.
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      09-25-2017, 11:33 AM   #32
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Interesting about the VAC kit. What did they say the issues were? I’ve been eyeballing it as it’s bearing time for me too and I have no willpower
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      09-25-2017, 03:48 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yousefnjr View Post
Interesting about the VAC kit. What did they say the issues were? I’ve been eyeballing it as it’s bearing time for me too and I have no willpower

VAC components are good, it is just a different objective. They can get 450hp out of their stroker kit, but anytime you put that much stress on an engine the life and daily drivability of the car changes dramatically. If you want a something you can track and drive on the street, then Lang's kit might be your best bet. VAC runs a 97mm stroke vs. Lang's 95mm.

You also will need to upgrade the cams and a few other areas to really get the most out of a stroker kit. Its a much different set up than a supercharger, and if you want to track your car, in my opinion going to a stroker motor is much more useful.
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      10-01-2017, 10:42 AM   #34
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I came to this thread expecting not to learn anything new about the options out there when folks have hit this sort of brick wall. I didn't know Dinan still looked at these cars or really put their hands into it much at all and that sounds like a fantastic option.

I was going to come here and simply suggest that you run a new motor or go to Lang especially since you're much closer to him than many others, and honestly you can see my story about local shops. However you've already found a solution and now I'm curious to see how it might compare to the products Lang offers and the overall reliability. I'm sure that many of us want to keep these cars running until our lifetime runs out and this will be a good experiment to see just how far we can push these cars with the various options out there.

I wish you the best of luck with the build/rebuild. I know it's a painful process but trust me it's all worth it when you get to put your foot down count out of a corner again.

Keep your head up and best wishes.
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      10-01-2017, 08:37 PM   #35
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Any updates from AA? (sorry to hear this happened mate)
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      10-02-2017, 12:29 PM   #36
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Damn, I'd have to win the lottery to be able to afford dropping that sort of bread.
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      10-03-2017, 03:24 AM   #37
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Trust me, I try not to look at the stack of receipts I have accumulated with this car. Lot's of trial and error and time to find the right parts, but it has been worth the wait and the car has been by far one of my favorite builds.

I will be posting a build sheet for the rebuild soon.
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      10-08-2017, 08:36 PM   #38
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Damn, I'd have to win the lottery to be able to afford dropping that sort of bread.
Pray that you never have to but when it does, you'll find yourself scraping everything and anything together to make it happen. There's just something about these cars that we can't let go of and I know I never will. No matter how many motors I put in it.

Looking forward to build updates OP!
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      12-02-2017, 02:59 PM   #39
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Wow Absurd story, best of the luck with dealing with AA (they aren't gonna boost their top line with this)
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