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      05-14-2010, 10:31 AM   #1
RedHairedTrev
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Help needed to solve my audio mystery.

Intro
Was wondering if someone can help solve this mystery. I bought my Z4 used and the audio system is terrible. I think sound only comes out of 4 speakers total powered by a pretty nice Alpine head unit – I think it was a bait and switch selling tactic. Anyways, I went through most of the car yesterday with by beginner knowledge on this kind of stuff. I was successful with putting everything back together  yay, but I have yet to figure out what a previous owner had done to the audio system. I do know that he took really good care of it, so I doubt he did something bad.

Interior Investigation
Behind the driver’s seat I found a “6.5” Alpine Type R SPR-17LS component 2-way speaker system. 350W Peak 70rms Imp 4ohms. Above it I found an average looking 3.5” stock speaker? There was no insignia on this speaker and I didn’t want to take the back panel off.

In the door I found what looks like a stock tweeter, but with later investigation and searching the net for the previously mentioned Alpine Component System – it looked like it came as a package with the 6.5” speaker. I attached a pic of how the wires were joined – don’t know if it was done properly. In fact, I believe all speakers jumped onto the original speaker wires.

Also in the door I found an Alpine Type S speaker. It had a pretty hard aluminum center (don’t think I can call this a cone) It looked to be about 3.5”, but I think Alpine only made 4”ers.

In the kick panel (wow this sucked to get at), I found an Alpine Type R 6.5” SPR-17LS Component 2-way speaker. Same specs as the 6.5” behind the seat mentioned earlier.

I took off the door runner panel piece and pulled up some wires – see pic. It didn’t look like anything was out of the ordinary except a Sirius Sat Radio antenna wire. You tell me.

Trunk Investigation
In the trunk I found the original amplifier – it said something Carver on it with a set of numbers. Not sure if it denotes the Hi-Fi or Top Hi-Fi. Nothing was really hooked up to it. I found a small black wire that read “AMP” on the connector tip – it was not plugged into anything. I found a jumble of wires migrating from the driver side portion of the car back to the factory amp – I believe all of them were just cut… and not connected to anything. There was another jumble of wires coming from the passenger side of the car that had weird tube like connectors on a lot of them – I think some of them were connected to something (apologies, it was dark and I don’t remember, see pics).

Statements and Questions
So basically it seems as though I have decent speakers in my car’s interior – they just need an amp, crossovers, etc. Any recommendations on how big of an amp I need given the specs listed in my discovery? What class amp?

I have decided to try and create my own sub box. I’m thinking two 10”ers, but I don’t know what kind of amp I want to connect them to. I heard I want a class D… but should I go with a mono or 2-channel? I heard I should go with 4 ohm rated subs… what kind of specs should I look for in either of the mono/2-channel amps?

Will the aftermarket speakers that I have in my car get enough power if they are in fact wired using my original speaker wire (I believe its original)?

The Head Unit that is in my car is pretty nice… how do I know if it was wired up properly… someone told me that if the previous owner didn’t use a good power wire (I think that’s what he called it), then it could be shit. Given that the previous owner seems to have used the original speaker wire for aftermarket speakers – he may have done the same with the head unit wiring. I’m thinking that if the speakers and subs WILL be powered off their own amps… this won’t have an effect on a currently fully functional head unit.

I know this was long, but I have tried teaching myself the basics over the past couple weeks. I am open to answers, comments, and suggestions. I hope the pics help.
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      05-14-2010, 11:29 AM   #2
gizmo83
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That is some shoddy wiring. If I were you I'd probably try to rewire the whole system.

It seems like they put in the headunit then wired it all the way to the rear of the car and connected it to the stock wiring harness that connects to the stock amp. Blue taped up wire is most likely the amp turn on lead from the new head unit.
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      05-14-2010, 12:13 PM   #3
RedHairedTrev
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So you don't think the stock wires could handle the aftermarket alpine speakers? How difficult would it be to rewire everything? This would include me purchasing a new wiring harness correct? Would I have to take the whole dash apart?

I am not following you with the "amp turn on lead." What is it's role in the sound system?

I thought that the previous owner took out the stock amp, put in a 5-channel amp and connected a big sub to it along with those Alpine speakers. Then when he wanted to sell it, he took out his sub and amp, put the stock amp back in, then connected 4 small speakers to the head unit so there was at least some sound. The sound as of right now it terrible. It's just like having 4 tweeters on with no mids or subs. When I put the top down and turn the music up, it gets to a point where it starts sounding terrible and you can barely hear it.

Keep the comments flowing, I really appreciate it.
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      05-14-2010, 01:37 PM   #4
gizmo83
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I've only installed stereos on the cars I've owned so this is by no means expert advice.

The stock wires are okay if you don't want to re-wire the whole set up but at least re-do the connections because those are pretty sloppy.

The amp turn on lead is a wire coming from the headunit that tells the aftermarket amp to turn on. If you look on an amp there is always a + / - and and spot for the turn on lead.

Is the stock amp connected? If it is the reason it sounds so bad is cause the stock system is a different ohm then the aftermarket speakers. You can either wire the speakers directly to the headunit or add an aftermarket amp.
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      05-14-2010, 02:04 PM   #5
RedHairedTrev
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Wow, that sketch is really making some things click.

I can't remember now if some of the speaker wires up by the kick panel extended underneath the glove box and towards the head unit. My factory amp is definitely not hooked up/running. There seems to be wires going into it, but that "amp" wire is not plugged into its associated port. I know for a fact only four speakers in the entire care are playing - I'm not exactly certain how they are being powered whether it be directly through the head unit or indirectly through the head unit.

If I re-wired the car, what gauge wire would I need for the speakers if I want to cover my ass... maybe 12 gauge.What's a good brand? What is the gauge of the stock wire? Would the farthest that I have to run my speaker wires be to the front kick panel speakers?I really don't want to have to take the dash apart :-/

What gauge wire would cover me and then some on dual 10" subs?

According to your diagram, I don't think I currently have a ground cable... do I just drill a hole into metal and contruct one? Is there a certain or preferred spot?

I guess I am going to need a new amp lead or remote wire for my head unit to communicate with my amp?

One last thing, i did a search for wiring harnesses for my head unit (iva-d310) and this came up: http://www.uneeksupply.com/servlet/t...HARNESS/Detail

It said it is for the monitor... looks like the same type thing that is in my trunk next to my head unit's 'brain."

The search also pulled up this harness as well: http://www.bonanzle.com/booths/uneek..._D310_D300_w17

Are these the same wires as the ones in your diagram marked "Phono/RCA cable" ?

Do I need to get new wiring harnesses and re-wire them?

Apologies for the bombardment of Q's... I'm trying to figure this out asap so I can purchase the right materials.
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      05-15-2010, 08:02 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHairedTrev View Post
Wow, that sketch is really making some things click.

I can't remember now if some of the speaker wires up by the kick panel extended underneath the glove box and towards the head unit. My factory amp is definitely not hooked up/running. There seems to be wires going into it, but that "amp" wire is not plugged into its associated port. I know for a fact only four speakers in the entire care are playing - I'm not exactly certain how they are being powered whether it be directly through the head unit or indirectly through the head unit.
i would think they are being connected directly from the headunit. this all depends on what audio system you had from the factory. if the stock audio system came with DSP, then the speakers are run directly to the headunit. if it was the standard audio system without DSP then you can run it through the stock amp. although you need to remember, the headunit only has 4 speakers to power so even if you did have the standard audio system, you would still only get 4 speakers working unless you added an additional amp to power the rest.

If I re-wired the car, what gauge wire would I need for the speakers if I want to cover my ass... maybe 12 gauge.What's a good brand? What is the gauge of the stock wire? Would the farthest that I have to run my speaker wires be to the front kick panel speakers?I really don't want to have to take the dash apart :-/
12 gauge is used for subs. you can go 16 for the speakers. or 14 but even that's a little overkill

What gauge wire would cover me and then some on dual 10" subs?
12

According to your diagram, I don't think I currently have a ground cable... do I just drill a hole into metal and contruct one? Is there a certain or preferred spot?
since you dont have an aftermarket amp, the diagram above doesn't pertain to your setup for the ground. the stock amp is grounded from the factory. if you added an aftermarket amp, then yes you would need to run a ground for it. since the battery is in the trunk, the easiest would be to run it to the negative side of the battery.

I guess I am going to need a new amp lead or remote wire for my head unit to communicate with my amp?
yeah on the back of the headunit the remote turn on is usually blue with a white stripe (or sometimes just blue). it might actually be labeled remote turn on. this can also be a 16 gauge wire.

One last thing, i did a search for wiring harnesses for my head unit (iva-d310) and this came up: http://www.uneeksupply.com/servlet/t...HARNESS/Detail

It said it is for the monitor... looks like the same type thing that is in my trunk next to my head unit's 'brain."
yeah that's what it looks like to me

The search also pulled up this harness as well: http://www.bonanzle.com/booths/uneek..._D310_D300_w17
this one looks more like the actual headunit harness (not the one that connects to the brain).

Are these the same wires as the ones in your diagram marked "Phono/RCA cable" ?
no, rca cables are what connects the amp to the headunit to transfer audio. you wont see rca ports on the stock amp, only on aftermarket.

Do I need to get new wiring harnesses and re-wire them?
probably not a bad idea since you're current setup is a bit confusing and sloppy. also since you want to put in some subs, which means you'll need an amp, you're probably better off re-wiring it all and starting fresh. this thread should help you if you go this route: http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230947

Apologies for the bombardment of Q's... I'm trying to figure this out asap so I can purchase the right materials.
see my responses in bold
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      05-20-2010, 01:11 PM   #7
hummarz
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Hey RedHairedTrev,

I just did an install on my 04 Z4 3.0 with the clarion nz500 and Ipod adapter with an arc mini 125.4 amp. You can call me at (714) 932-8942. Remember Im in LA so there is a time difference.
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      05-20-2010, 09:33 PM   #8
RedHairedTrev
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nickpapa, haha just when I thought I had somewhat of a handle on this car audio concept... Anyways, I'm still absorbing that info. I think the wiring is what is confusing me at this point. I'm going to try and put things together within the next couple of days.

hummarz, appreciate the offer, I will probably be callin you now instead of crutchfield hehe. Did any type of dashboard lights appear after your install? The dealer said that installing an aftermarket audio system will mess with the electrical system of the car... and can cause drastic problems. My name is Trevor if you didn't know.

I think I figured out my sub setup. I was going to run dual 10" 4 ohm subs powered by a 2-channel amp. I found out that route is very pricey (amp = 700-800). Instead, I am going to run dual 10" 2 ohm subs powered by a mono amp (amp = 260). The guy I spoke to from crutchfield said the ohm'age would match up (a concept I still don't quite understand). He also said I need to wire it a certain way (dunno that either). I listed the items on my grocery list below. If someone could go through the specs of each piece and let me know if there will be compatibility issues - i'd appreciate it.

Subs: http://signature.crutchfield.com/s_5...2D.html?tp=111

Amp: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...MRP-M1000.html

Granted I can find better pricing elsewhere, those sites list full product specs.

Question time,
Okay, nickpapa informed me on speaker wire... but what are the top brands and specs to look for? Link me?
If I am running a sub amp and a speaker amp... is there something I should check on with my head unit in regards to dual sub compatibility?
Can someone make a quick sketch of how my wiring will be just for my sub setup?
Are those "amp install kits" worth it? I think I want everything that comes with them... but do they chince out on certain wires (bait and switch). Could anyone recommend a good brand amp install kit IF they are worth it?

I know people are seeing my posts and just rolling their eyes - I am def a newb with car audio
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