Audio Processor Upgrade from MS 8

[308tr6]

Looking at tons of threads over the years to upgrade factory head unit outputs to something useable for aftermarket amps, subs, speakers, etc. MS 8 is frequently referenced as a signal processor with apparently mixed results. I now find Crutchfield and others list it as discontinued or no longer available.

So, fast forward to June 2016 - is there a better black box out there. I see lots listed with high accolades (self promoting of course), but any real world experience?

Like most folks I find myself wanting to upgrade sound quality in a big way but still use the factory head unit for asthetics. Gladly replace the rest as it is largely unseen.

So any of you audiophiles have any comments on the state of the art processor to succeed the MS 8, or is real sound quality found by ditching all the factory stuff.

[tominizer]

I'm wondering if you can ditch all the factory stuff or if you lose more than the audio? Is anything else integrated into the audio system junk (factory head unit, factory amp,etc) such that it can't be removed?

I'd like to ditch it all........ but can't find any details here or on DIYMA yet. I have an '07 with NAV.

I did an install on my '08 Mini Cooper with the MS8 and did not like the results. So I gutted everything and did an aftermarket head unit. It meant keep the factory head unit connected and stuffed up under the dash though.

With regards to BMW's I thought MOBRIDGE had something?

[elerner61]

Here's the short of it: If you have NAV you have to keep the head unit otherwise you lose everything that the NAV display gives you access to (duh, sorry). If you're ok with that then you can put in any head unit you want, run it to whatever amps you want and you're on your way.

If you keep the BMW head unit you'll need to use something that sums up the 8 channels. Using a Digital Signal Processor is like getting married, a long involved relationship. It took me about 8 months to get my MS-8 setup where I was really happy with it, but with the time correction doing its thing, it sounds fantastic.

I just did a search for 8 channel line converters and AudioControl makes the LC8i which looks like for not a ton of money will do the simple job of giving you signals you can then connect to standard amps. It even gives you an external control to control your sub. From there, add new speakers (ditch the mids behind the seats please) and you can have a nice system without the hassle of tuning a DSP. If I had to do it over again, I might just use that instead of the MS-8.

[Oazix]

I put the ms8 in mine, was much better than stock but i still need to tweek it, I'm having issues with the speakers on the doors.

elerner how do you have yours set up?

[elerner61]

I have the MS-8 built in amp powering just the tweets. I then have line outs from the MS-8 to a 5 channel amp powering the mids in the doors, mid-bass in the kickpanels and subs in the original enclosures. I left the mids behind the seats out, and replaced all the stock drivers.

For the first 5 months or so I had the MS-8 controlling everything. I was never truly satisfied with the mid-bass level (common feedback of certain MS-8 systems). I then went with what the diymobileaudio.com crew calls a "Kaigoss" config. Remove the subs from the MS-8 setup and then run the autotune. Then split off of the MS-8 line out to the mid-bass drivers and run the subs off of that (controlling the x-over point via the x-over control on the amplifier). Very happy after making that change.

[Oazix]

Hmm, I have the tweeters each on their own line, each of the 4" on their own lines and then the sub and the mid bass i replaced with the same alpine 6" and put them on a left and right line that goes to a 4 channel amp first. then the last 2 channels on the 4 channel amp i have jumped with a 10" sub in the trunk.

It sounded good at first but the 4" alpines in the door blew shortly after putting them in, looking back I think it was the lip of the stock hole in the door card. I had replaced them with a set of focal but there was a lot of bass coming out of just those speakers and now the drivers side is sounding blown also.

[elerner61]

Asking the internal MS-8 amp to handle the mids might be too much. I also think you need to get back to basics that the MS-8 can tune to (more drivers is not always better and will confuse the MS-8s algorithm).

Why don't you try taking the subs out of the equation (the drivers you have installed behind the seats and the sub in the trunk) and have your 4 channel amp handling your mids and mid-bass. See how you get that to sound and then make changes from their.

[308tr6]

Sorry for the delayed response......
I don't have NAV, so does this make life simpler to use the stock head unit which I greatly prefer, but take signals from that to a different amp and speaker package?
I am not an audio guy, which is quite obvious I am sure.....but basically wondering if I use the speaker signals converted into an aftermarket amp, or is their another way of doing this?

[elerner61]

As you aren't going to be doing the work on your upgrade (not an audio guy) you're going to want to do the research and find out exactly which head unit you have, determine if you can remove the BMW amp out of the equation and get the pinouts for your installer. I don't know the non-Nav radio's well. What you are looking to determine is if the volume control takes place in either the head unit or the amplifier. If it takes place in the amplifier (controlled via a bus signal from the head unit to the amp) then you're stuck keeping the BMW amp.

[308tr6]

Originally Posted by elerner61

As you aren't going to be doing the work on your upgrade (not an audio guy) you're going to want to do the research and find out exactly which head unit you have, determine if you can remove the BMW amp out of the equation and get the pinouts for your installer. I don't know the non-Nav radio's well. What you are looking to determine is if the volume control takes place in either the head unit or the amplifier. If it takes place in the amplifier (controlled via a bus signal from the head unit to the amp) then you're stuck keeping the BMW amp.

Thank you for your response...if you will continue to bear with me.....I do know I have the high definition radio and what is termed HiFi system professional. Not sure if it matters, but it says "Business CD" on the unit face itself. Not sure what that means either.
So the question being as you stated "determine if the volume control takes place in either the head unit or the amplifier" - does this information I provided help answer that question?

[elerner61]

Originally Posted by 308tr6

I do know I have the high definition radio and what is termed HiFi system professional. Not sure if it matters, but it says "Business CD" on the unit face itself.

What you have stated is familiar to me from the research I did four years ago but I don't know (or ever knew) any particulars for those specific systems. That is the road you have to travel...

[308tr6]

Originally Posted by elerner61

What you have stated is familiar to me from the research I did four years ago but I don't know (or ever knew) any particulars for those specific systems. That is the road you have to travel...

Sounds like a spiritual journey. I might visit my local audio shop for enlightenment and at least warn them that this isn't a 56 Buick.

[tominizer]

elerner61

Thanks for that information. That's good to know that BMW didn't tie in all kinds of "other" crap to the audio components. I have the NAV in mine as well. Not sure if I want to keep it or gut it and put in a center channel. I've done a lot of installs over the years. I guess it's going to come down to the time and energy.

If I'm to keep the factory NAV, where did you tie the the MS8 into? I've used the MS8 before (and sold it) and just curious where you tapped in and if you have all the wiring info/color codes, etc for factory wiring you used. Or was there somewhere online that someone posted all that info? I haven't been able to find it yet.

BTW, I have an '07 roadster as well.....

[elerner61]

Sorry, was away for a long Mountain Biking weekend in Vermont (Kingdom trails, so much fun).

I tapped the MS-8 into the speaker outputs coming from the BMW amp. The speaker wire going to the door and kickpanel drivers were sufficient so I made use of them. But for the subs I installed (JL Audio 6.5" in the stock locations) I ran new cable because it was so easy. I ended up doing a Kaigoss MS-8 configuration on the outputs to get over poor mid-bass. If you know what this is then great, if you don't just ask and I'll provide details. If you're buying an amp for this install, make sure it has x-overs for the channels you'll run the mid-bass and subs off of (otherwise you can't do a Kaigoss config.)

Now...here is what you're REALLY looking for. Look for my post in the middle of this thread. That second link is the holy grail. http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1241959

I truly love how it sounds. When you're top down and you can hear and feel the bassist....very special.

[tominizer]

Yup, I did the Kaigoss config in my Mini when I ran the MS8.

Yup, that's the link we're talking about !! Good stuff......

Just need to decide whether or not I keep the NAV or pull it and go all new. Hmmmm....

[elerner61]

If you can find a HU you really like, like the way it will look in the dash, and can integrate with the steering wheel controls for volume up/down and track manipulation I would go that way. Technically much cleaner on many grounds (higher quality Smartphone content integration, no need for MS-8 to remove equalization from the HU). And less reliance on BMW hardware that will no doubt eventually crap out (NAV screen, amplifier)

[DaveJB]

LOL - elerner, helping again. I'm the OP in that other thread. After a GREAT deal of searching I bought an MS-8. But as I mentioned in that other thread... I may never get around to installing it. At least until it cools off here in Phoenix.

I do have every piece I need for the whole deali-o: amp, powered sub, cables, speakers, MS-8... everything ready to go.

elerner, thanks for you help here in this forum.

[tominizer]

Just got my hands on an Alpine INA W910 double DIN. Was going to put it in another car but after seeing this, it's now going in the Z4.

I will be doing a custom vent setup to get the center vents to work. Still need to take a trip to the wreckers to find these vents I want to use. I'm thinking the vents will go where the pop up OEM NAV is. Stay tuned.

[elerner61]

Very cool project. Looking forward to seeing this.

[tominizer]

Right now, all the time/effort is in the trunk. It's been gutted and looked to have a bit of room to work with. Now that I'm roughing in all the new panels........DAMN....... this trunk is small. Doesn't help that the battery takes up a pile of room in there.

[elerner61]

Yeah, small and a bitch to work in. I had originally planned to solder everything I couldn't prep before hand but ended up crimping since I would have set my back on fire leaning over for so long.

[tominizer]

I've roughed in all the new trunk panels and the general layout. Eventually I will post up a new thread when I have progressed fuerther down the road. Here's the gist of it all though. 12" in a seal box to the left of the battery, two amps in the rear floor (6 channel and a 2 channel), processor off the back of the sub box. The amp/processor rack will be completed and wired up outside of the car as per the way I've designed it. That will help save my back Up front I'm going with new 3-way setup, double din deck and moving the vents to the top of the dash where the NAV was. Lots of work ahead.