What cc injectors came with you're ESS VT 500/525 kit

[gmd2003]

Guys i finally got my car right mechanically , no belt slip , new,
Vanos , full Catless exhaust etc. dyno tested this past week and had horrible AFR's almost 14 after 7K rpm ( until that point they were 11.5) . My first instinct was to blame the new aeromotive fuel pump , but i decided to look at all possible causes in the fuel system . When i checked the part number on my Bosch injectors on their website i found out that they are only 350cc/min !!! WTF , thats a major problem as , running calculations estimate they would be 100 % maxed out at 480 crank , much less 525+ . Ill talk to Roman on Monday but i smell another fuck up . Just glad my motor has not blown . Either this is another part f up or ESS has grossly miss sized the injectors on the 525 kit . We are stuck bc going with a larger injector while def require a new tune . Im honestly this close to burning this kit in my back yard .
George

[tikamak]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

Guys i finally got my car right mechanically , no belt slip , new,
Vanos , full Catless exhaust etc. dyno tested this past week and had horrible AFR's almost 14 after 7K rpm ( until that point they were 11.5) . My first instinct was to blame the new aeromotive fuel pump , but i decided to look at all possible causes in the fuel system . When i checked the part number on my Bosch injectors on their website i found out that they are only 350cc/min !!! WTF , thats a major problem as , running calculations estimate they would be 100 % maxed out at 480 crank , much less 525+ . Ill talk to Roman on Monday but i smell another fuck up . Just glad my motor has not blown . Either this is another part f up or ESS has grossly miss sized the injectors on the 525 kit . We are stuck bc going with a larger injector while def require a new tune . Im honestly this close to burning this kit in my back yard .
George

How was your AFR before the aeromotive installation ? do you have a graph ?

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by tikamak

How was your AFR before the aeromotive installation ? do you have a graph ?

This is the first dyno without belt slip and with full catless exhaust .
George

[gmd2003]

No matter what the AFR though 350 cc injectors are TOO SMALL for this power level .
George

[Rated M Roadster]

You're going to need much larger injectors and a new tune. Your IDC with these are likely near 100% (well before it leans out); even 100cc larger injectors would be 90+% IDC and would still cause lean conditions...

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by Rated M Roadster

You're going to need much larger injectors and a new tune. Your IDC with these are likely near 100% (well before it leans out); even 100cc larger injectors would be 90+% IDC and would still cause lean conditions...

I agree 1000 percent. I hope its a mistake , bc if it isn't ive lost all faith in ESS .

[tikamak]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

I agree 1000 percent. I hope its a mistake , bc if it isn't ive lost all faith in ESS .

I've already lost some faith in ESS.

I stopped driving my car and will install new rod bearings, head gasket and ARP everything. an ATI damper from VAC, oil pump upgrade and the whole engine refresh, head gasket set and crankcase gasket set.

I don't believe this "stock engine can take it" ideology, as well as "this kit was tested for 50 000 miles".

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by tikamak

I've already lost some faith in ESS.

I stopped driving my car and will install new rod bearings, head gasket and ARP everything. an ATI damper from VAC, oil pump upgrade and the whole engine refresh, head gasket set and crankcase gasket set.

I don't believe this "stock engine can take it" ideology, as well as "this kit was tested for 50 000 miles".

The engine is solid , remember mine has 10,000 track hours with the VT-1 kit on it , with only the rod bearings needing to be replaced . Thats pretty amazing . Per usual the problems increase exponentially as the horsepower exceeds 25% over baseline .
George

[gmd2003]

Well its confirmed, I received the 350cc injectors by mistake . They use the 350cc on the VT1 ( fine) and the VT -2 500 ! ( Not fine!) The 525 kit is supposed to have 420cc injectors ( i honestly hoped they were 550 but they should be ok ) . The part number on the correct Bosch injector is 0280156012. They really like to use injectors with no safety margin , don't know why .
George

[ZStig]

I'd be mostly glad that you don't have to touch that fuel pump. much more involved. I'm glad you were able to figure this out. I really hope they don't use the same injectors on the Vt1 kit and the Vt2 kit (mine), even though I'm at only 7psi boost

what boost are you peaking on?

[Rated M Roadster]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

Well its confirmed, I received the 350cc injectors by mistake . They use the 350cc on the VT1 ( fine) and the VT -2 500 ! ( Not fine!) The 525 kit is supposed to have 420cc injectors ( i honestly hoped they were 550 but they should be ok ) . The part number on the correct Bosch injector is 0280156012. They really like to use injectors with no safety margin , don't know why .
George

I doubt these will be enough still. If you can datalog some runs, I'd be curious to see how high the IDCs are. My guess is you'll be at 90+% (14ms IPW) by 8psi; when you should really never top 80%.

[GuidoK]

Wouldn't the mapping be all wrong with wrong size injectors?
So not only the afr at high revs but also at low revs?

I mean: there is a direct relation between the fuel mapping and the injector size, isn't there?
I mean if your afr drops to 11,5 in midrange, that is clearly a mapping that is adjusted for those 350cc injectors, isn't it (afr 11,5 is good)? And if the afr rises too high in the high revs, its that the duty cycle is/needs to be over 100% to deliver that power (aka injectors too small, but the mapping is written for those injectors).

Or is there something I'm missing?

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by ZStig

I'd be mostly glad that you don't have to touch that fuel pump. much more involved. I'm glad you were able to figure this out. I really hope they don't use the same injectors on the Vt1 kit and the Vt2 kit (mine), even though I'm at only 7psi boost

what boost are you peaking on?

They said the 350 cc is what they use in the VT 2-500 as well ....
The only kit that gets the 420 is the 525 . Id like larger than 420 for mine , but we are in jail with our tunes . Im seeing around 7.5 psi , but im full catless, thus lower boost pressure and higher flow . Another reason why my car was running leaner than most . I was still expecting 8 psi catless so im going to pressure check again , i may have a small leak after 7 psi .

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by Rated M Roadster

I doubt these will be enough still. If you can datalog some runs, I'd be curious to see how high the IDCs are. My guess is you'll be at 90+% (14ms IPW) by 8psi; when you should really never top 80%.

Well at least they wont be 100% ! But unfortunately ESS isn't going to make a custom tune for just me too run a larger injector so I'm stuck.

[gmd2003]

Ok so update from ESS. Per usual the customer service side of things is excellent, from both AJ and Roman. So I had one of the first 525 kits that was actually designed for and tuned for 350cc injectors. AJ said this worked for up to 430whp, the problem is with SS headers and no cats mine tried to make 460whp. So they are expediting me new larger injectors and new tune designed for the larger injectors. This all makes sense bc looking at my current midrange AFR's things look like they were tuned for that size injector. So for all those with headers and a VT-2 anything, if you are having lean issues don't assume it's your fuel pump , you need to make sure your injectors are able to supply enough fueling.
George

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

that was actually designed for and tuned for 350cc injectors.

So my technical deduction was sound after all

[seank]

We know your right guido, just some what of a bastard about it sometimes. We still love you.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by seank

We know your right guido, just some what of a bastard about it sometimes. We still love you.

Sean which injectors did you get with you're kit ?

[seank]

Hell if I know. I will need to look. When did they change the injector size.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by seank

Hell if I know. I will need to look. When did they change the injector size.

I have no idea , but i do know at 350cc the injectors are 100% maxed out with 0 safety margin at 430whp. So if you have headers you will be in the same boat as me. Have you dyno'd you're car yet ?
George

[tikamak]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

I have no idea , but i do know at 350cc the injectors are 100% maxed out with 0 safety margin at 430whp. So if you have headers you will be in the same boat as me. Have you dyno'd you're car yet ?
George

I can't believe i told AJ that i have a catless setup and i need the 8psi pulley and i got a 7psi pulley and the normal 350cc injectors.

Earlier i had a boost leak and was having wonderful AFR due to the dynamic calibration of the AFR but after fixing the AFR i am having lean conditions with a 500 hp crank cap ..

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by tikamak

I can't believe i told AJ that i have a catless setup and i need the 8psi pulley and i got a 7psi pulley and the normal 350cc injectors.

Earlier i had a boost leak and was having wonderful AFR due to the dynamic calibration of the AFR but after fixing the AFR i am having lean conditions with a 500 hp crank cap ..

Be glad you didn't get an 8 psi pulley and you had a boost leak . You wont make 8 psi full catless by the way so don't expect that .