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05-15-2017, 05:25 PM | #1 |
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Anyone take off in 2nd regularly ?
Living in mostly flat Florida I find 2nd to work much better for take off .I only use 1st if I'm tooling through a parking lot or starting on a hill .
Of course if you are trying to haul buggy taking off in second is much quicker but generally do most of you use first? My 1st to 2nd is anything but buttery ! When I start in first unless I am really going to wind it up I always have an aggressive driver on my butt . Thanks for the input / read a good bit of the Forum but never noticed a thread on this subject . |
05-15-2017, 06:17 PM | #2 |
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When I first bought my Z4MC 3 years ago my 1st to 2nd shifts weren't buttery smooth either and just started driving around starting in 2nd as well. I did find that after a while of owning the car, I figured out that at least for me, in order to get a smooth 1st to 2nd shift, you have to ease into it. Completely different from my old Civic Si where you can just bang it through as fast as you can and you'll be fine. While shifting from 1st to 2nd, try giving it a second or two after you disengage the clutch for smoother shifts. It works for me, hopefully it works for you as well!
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05-15-2017, 06:33 PM | #3 |
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You need to do a clutch value delete, this will fix the issue in 1st gear. Just ask your local shop and they can do it for about $100 including labor.
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05-15-2017, 09:25 PM | #4 |
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+ 1 on the Clutch Delay Valve delete. Made it a whole different car- 'way more fun to drive.
I drove an e36 M3 for 14 yrs and never minded the CDV in it, but when I deleted it in the M Coupe after driving it for 3 years, I regretted not doing it MUCH sooner. Gyro |
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05-16-2017, 12:29 AM | #5 |
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I had my CDV deleted a few months after purchase and it does help greatly with spirited driving. I did find that at city speeds shifting at low rpms (between 2500-3000) its still smoother to give it a second for the syncros to do their job.
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05-17-2017, 08:16 AM | #7 |
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Thanks for the input and info on the CDV ! I am going to look into it .
I hear you Vanne and I expected to get some feedback about clutch wear . I have it worked out where I don't have to feather the clutch . I installed one of the clutch stops that is talked about on this forum . I don't rev then feather the clutch I just ease it to the top of the throw then release it with a decent amount of throttle at the same time . I hope I'm not screwing up but I feel like realistically it is one less shift to deal with as well ? |
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05-17-2017, 02:32 PM | #8 |
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Yeah, these things are geared really low which is what is appearing to be the issue between 1st and 2nd. First, you are not getting much mph out of first because of the steep gear. When you take your foot off the clutch to go to second, most likely your rpms are up there and the drop and re-engagement is causing the jerky feeling. Its also why others with automatics are driving up you bumper unless you get on it off the start. This is typical of cars back in the muscle car days where they would match up a steep first gear in the trans, lets say a 2.63 with a steep rear end gear like a 3.91 or 4.10. Top end in first would be like a truck granny gear and only get you around 15mph before it was really winding up the engine. This was mainly of racing where you would get out of the hole fast, run the rpms up high and quickly bang second gear. Using second gear to start off is a common practice in a scenario like that. The key is to not ride the clutch to do so or you are going to wear it out a lot faster than you should.
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05-17-2017, 03:12 PM | #9 |
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Okay, this explains it. the 5 speed has a 4.23 1st gear than drops to 2.52 in second. a 2.52:1 ratio is more than enough for starting off in second gear. It also explains the high rpm on the highway, a lot of rear gear, short diameter tire and 1:1 5th gear meaning no overdrive.
Gear Ratios 5 spd 6 spd Auto 1st 4.23:1 4.35:1 3.67:1 2nd 2.52:1 2.50:1 2.00:1 3rd 1.66:1 1.67:1 1.41:1 4th 1.22:1 1.24:1 1.00:1 5th 1.00:1 1.00:1 0.74:1 6th - 0.85:1 - Reverse 4.04:1 3.93:1 Final drive ratio 3.46:1 3.07:1 3.64:1 |
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05-17-2017, 04:45 PM | #10 |
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This is the first manual transmission car that I've had to make a considerable change to throttle/clutch technique to drive smoothly. Once I started throwing the clutch in slightly before I come off the throttle everything calmed down.
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05-18-2017, 08:05 AM | #11 |
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I hear you it has been an adjustment for me too. Funny the first z4 I test drove was a 5spd and I don't remember 1st to 2nd being such a pain .
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05-18-2017, 08:44 AM | #12 |
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Why would you take off in 2nd?
It defeats the purpose of 1st gear, is slower....and will cause unnecessary clutch wear. I've never had any problems with 1st-2nd, either with or without cdv. The bmw transmission is fine. Try driving some old crappy european hatchback like 1st gen fiesta...that teaches you how to shift!
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05-19-2017, 08:05 AM | #13 | |
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Quote:
All vehicles shift differently my last manual Jeep Wrangler had similar 1st to 2nd issue . I take off in second because unfortunately I drive mostly in aggressive traffic and it's easier to keep people off my azz |
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05-19-2017, 09:24 AM | #14 | ||
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Quote:
But its not that with cdv it makes shifting impossible Quote:
In a 0-60 sprint that will result in a 1-2sec gain. In 0-37mph (~revlimit of 1st) you have 74%(!) more wheeltorque available The shift itself only lasts 0,3 sec or so if done correctly. Upshifting is the easiest thing to do. I'm currently up to 465Nm (343 lbf-ft) torque and I'm still quicker with using 1st (although I cant apply full throttle even mid acceleration, let alone at standstill) than when using only 2nd gear. So with less torque, that difference only gets bigger. Ideally I should have a 1st that goes up to 50mhp or so with my power output (or stickier tyres of course). In all dry conditions the gearing on 1st gear is good to about 400Nm I estimate (295 lbf-ft) with decent tyres.
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Last edited by GuidoK; 05-19-2017 at 09:41 AM.. |
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05-19-2017, 10:00 AM | #15 |
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That's what 2nd will get you So, it makes sense for you to start in 2nd due to your extra torque. But for everyone else, I do agree that starting in 1st is best for clutch longevity and quick out-of-the-hole start.
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05-19-2017, 10:06 AM | #16 |
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2nd goes up to 64mph, not 50.
On the 3.0i m54, the 0-62mph performance measuring (euopean standard, 0-100kph) is done with 1 shift.
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05-19-2017, 10:30 AM | #17 |
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Didn't really find much difference with CDV removed either. It bites a little harder, but it doesn't 'transform the car' by any means. Smooth 1-2 shifts are definitely possible with or without CDV. Whenever I screw it up I chalk it to driver error. Usually when I'm wearing sandals gas pedal is pretty sharp with sport mode on
On topic, I'll take off from 2nd if I'm going downhill, if I haven't completely stopped, or if traction is really low at the moment
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05-19-2017, 12:36 PM | #18 |
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Must be a "thing" with some German cars. My old 1989 VW Golf Wolfsburg was exactly the same way.
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05-19-2017, 06:19 PM | #19 |
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[QUOTE=GuidoK
That makes no sense, the car is way way quicker with the use of first gear. Sounds like we need to line them up then ///unless all those letters and numbers after z43.0i means your car is all souped up [QUOTE=GuidoK Ideally I should have a 1st that goes up to 50mhp or so with my power output You do , it's just labeled 2nd LOL Not sure but when you nail the 2nd gear start it sure seems like you get to 45/ 55 mph pretty darn quick at which time I just shift to 4th and slid into the pack of cars in my 45mph zone / my reasoning is that's just one shift . I have narrowly avoided being rear ended once then had another close call .The drivers see you take off quick but don't realize you have to grab another gear. Part of it is for sure the drivers are jealous because even though you may be going to work or run an errand you look like you are having too much fun to them . I get this almost every day I drive this car (story for another thread) WAY more than I ever dealt with in my topless Vetts or Camaros Last edited by markp1958; 05-19-2017 at 06:35 PM.. |
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