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      02-21-2010, 10:47 PM   #1
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Anyone drive their Z4 Roadster in HPDE, esp BMWCCA events?

There is a local BMWCCA HPDE coming up soon near me and I'd like to drive my Z4 Roadster, but from the from what I've been reading on BMWCCA's guide http://www.bmwcca.org/content/polici...AOpsManual.pdf

it looks like I may not be able to run it because of the lack of roll cage/harness,

pretty discouraging actually and I would like to run my Z4MR at the event but I think I'm going to end up running an old crappy subaru...

although it does have fixed integrated rollhoops which sit 3" above my helmet with the 'broomstick test'.

I'm going to check with the chief instructors, but perusing posts on this and other sites, it seems people have done events with stock setup Z4 roadsters... ex) http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270840

Any thoughts? ...If anyone was able to run their stock rollbar/stock 3pt seatbelt Z4 roadster, did you have to go through any special steps to get it approved to run?


If you've heard of anyone running z4 roadsters at BMW events or if there is a precedent/any exceptions I may have a chance to run it...

Any info would be helpful (and btw, from what it sounds like, most other groups allow convertibles..is BMWCCA pretty much the only one that doesn't?


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      02-22-2010, 01:36 PM   #2
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We regularly run ours with NASA (nasaproracing.com); I don't believe BMWCCA allows the car. It's probably due to insurance regulations or they're afraid we'll make them look slow!

Probably be at Road Atlanta and/or Monticello in June.

Last edited by DerekSelmanRacing; 02-22-2010 at 01:44 PM..
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      02-22-2010, 03:31 PM   #3
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Here in Seattle we are fortunate to have several marque clubs that conduct both car control basic skills schoosl as well as HPDS events at Pacific Raceway. All the clubs allow open cars (roadsters and cabriolets) to participate in their slow speed basic skills car control events. The Porsche and Alfa Romeo clubs allow roadsters and cabriolets equipped with factory roll-over protection to participate in HPDS events but the local BMW CCA chapter does not accept roadsters and cabriolets of any kind.
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      02-22-2010, 04:16 PM   #4
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As stated in my PM response to you, go with the Porsche clubs as they usually have better instructors and they allow convertibles. Any BMWCCA sanctioned group will not allow any kind of drop-top auto.
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      02-22-2010, 04:42 PM   #5
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I HPDE Mine! NASA Does not require an aftermarket roll cage or anything... a stock Z4 is fine...

NASA-SE.com Lots of track events in NC!!
NCCAR, LOWES Motor Speedway (what was formally known as Lowes), also we run at CMP which isn't far.
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      02-22-2010, 05:33 PM   #6
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Chapter decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragan View Post
As stated in my PM response to you, go with the Porsche clubs as they usually have better instructors and they allow convertibles. Any BMWCCA sanctioned group will not allow any kind of drop-top auto.
Here's what the BMW CCA Operations Manual has to say about "Convertibles":

2.8.7
Convertibles. are not allowed to participate in sessions driven at speed without a roll bar and 5- or 6-point harnesses. Arm restraints are strongly recommended. The use of a roll bar meeting the minimum requirements described in Appendix B is strongly recommended. Cars with factory installed, fixed rollover protection (targas, t-tops, etc.) are a chapter decision. Cars equipped only with factory pop-up posts are not allowed. Exclusion of convertibles is also a chapter option. Convertibles are defined as cars with retractable tops, whether soft-top or folding hard-top.
Removable roof sections include targa tops and T-tops. These are characterized by part of a fixed body structure above the passenger compartment.
2.8.7.1
Convertibles are not allowed to participate in sessions driven at-speed unless the car is equipped with the following minimum requirements:
a.
A rollbar or roll cage meeting the requirements of Appendix B; and
b.
5 or 6 point harnesses for both driver and instructor.
2.8.7.2
At the discretion of the Chapter, cars with factory-installed fixed rollover protection or removable roof sections may be allowed, but only if this protection meets the Helmet Reference Plane described in Figure 1 in Appendix B for both the driver and passenger.
2.8.7.3
Cars equipped only with factory pop-up posts or similarly activated rollover protection are not allowed.
2.8.7.4
Chapters may elect to exclude convertibles or cars with removable roof sections entirely from sessions driven at-speed regardless of rollbar or fixed rollover protection, or any provision of this Section 2.8.7.

It's a chapter decision as to whether cars with factory-installed fixed rollover protection are allowed to participate in HPDS events. The Puget Sound Chapter has chosen to exclude all convertibles regardless of rollover protection.
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      02-22-2010, 05:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmillet View Post
Here's what the BMW CCA Operations Manual has to say about "Convertibles":...
I oversimplified a bit
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      02-23-2010, 08:04 AM   #8
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We (www.MVPTrackTime.com) are Z4 friendly. Feel free to visit our web site to see our 2010 schedule.

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      02-24-2010, 07:26 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jragan View Post
As stated in my PM response to you, go with the Porsche clubs as they usually have better instructors and they allow convertibles. Any BMWCCA sanctioned group will not allow any kind of drop-top auto.
The BMW CCA seems to have a ton of rules that are making me not want to run their HPDEs. I was about to sign up for a NJ BMW CCA event at Monticello but then I came to find out that they will not let you run if you have window tints. WhenI asked why I was told that it because following drivers need to be able to see through your rear window to cars in front. Now I don't know about you but I am never looking through the rear window of the car infront to cars in front of that car. Hell with the M Coupe I would argue that it is almost impossible for a following driver to look through my rear window at track speeds even with no tint since the actual space you can look through is the size of a mail slot. And looking through the mail slot is only possible if you are in a car as low as the M Coupe. If you in a higher car you just going to be looking over the roof. They said I could bring my car to the NJ Chapter tech inspector cause it is a case by case issue but I think I am just going to stick with PCA track days. Better group of cars, instructors, they don't have all these weird rules and the best part is they are cheaper! I us signed up for a two day HPDE at NJMP for only $275! Good thing I have a PCA membership.. I might even not renew my BMW CCA membership now. It might be worth it just for the magazine but other then that I use the PCA membership more.
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      02-24-2010, 10:46 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F360C View Post
The BMW CCA seems to have a ton of rules that are making me not want to run their HPDEs. I was about to sign up for a NJ BMW CCA event at Monticello but then I came to find out that they will not let you run if you have window tints. WhenI asked why I was told that it because following drivers need to be able to see through your rear window to cars in front. Now I don't know about you but I am never looking through the rear window of the car infront to cars in front of that car. Hell with the M Coupe I would argue that it is almost impossible for a following driver to look through my rear window at track speeds even with no tint since the actual space you can look through is the size of a mail slot. And looking through the mail slot is only possible if you are in a car as low as the M Coupe. If you in a higher car you just going to be looking over the roof. They said I could bring my car to the NJ Chapter tech inspector cause it is a case by case issue but I think I am just going to stick with PCA track days. Better group of cars, instructors, they don't have all these weird rules and the best part is they are cheaper! I us signed up for a two day HPDE at NJMP for only $275! Good thing I have a PCA membership.. I might even not renew my BMW CCA membership now. It might be worth it just for the magazine but other then that I use the PCA membership more.
I actually agree with the no-tint rule and don't tint mine on principal. Not only do I need to be able see out and around from all directions, but drivers behind me need to be able to see me pre-signal (tap the mirror) that I'll be letting them pass in the next passing zone (not that this happens very often )
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      02-24-2010, 11:29 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jragan View Post
I actually agree with the no-tint rule and don't tint mine on principal. Not only do I need to be able see out and around from all directions, but drivers behind me need to be able to see me pre-signal (tap the mirror) that I'll be letting them pass in the next passing zone (not that this happens very often )

Okay I could agree with this but I don't have my front wind sheild tinted and the side windows are always down so the only one I has the tint is the rear which I don't think a following driver could see through anyways. Besides its not like you can't see through the tint anyways. Vision is jsut reduced a bit but no different I think then wearing a tinted visor where everything is reduced. Do Z4 M Coupes ever get passed?
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