Emergency - Ess Z4m Vt2 No Start

[nekky]

Have the new buyer here to pick up the car but the car just started giving us a problem today!

The car turns over, but won't stay running. It will fire once or twice, but not continue. If you keep the key turned, the starter will disengage and try to re-engage (grind).

The car has over half a tank of gas. I drove the car for an hour and a half last night with no issues. Then today, I fired it up but it had a hunting idle (+/- 500rpm). After a few minutes, it settled down and the car ran great. We drove it around again for an hour, including a stop and a restart with no issues. The car then was parked and we tried to restart within 30 seconds to no avail. And then here we are with this problem.

Mods are AEM water/meth injection and ESS VT2-500 s/c kit. The gas in the car is over a month old, but not more than a few months.

Any ideas??? Need to get this running asap! First time this problem has occurred. Please see below for both an interior and exterior video of the no-start.

[gas-can]

I recommend the simplest thing first - get rid of that old gas. Unless you had fuel stabilizer in the tank, the gas probably has gone stale.

Not sure if there's a shortcut for this on the M - you may just have to siphon as much of the old stuff out of the tank, fill it with fresh stuff, and open the fuel rail and let the pump run to purge the old stuff....

-gc

[Steeler]

WHS
Same happened to me this spring.

[pokeybritches]

Old gas is out. Unfortunately the problem persists. Any ideas would be appreciated.

Even when warm, idle is a little rough. When 2000+ rpm, the car runs smoother than any S54 I've driven... so it looks to be an idle issue.

[Beedub]

you don't think the aem is leaking meth mix at idle causing flooding?? sometimes the check valve fails and causes horrible startup issues.

[pokeybritches]

I thought about that and disconnected it. The startup issues show up less when it's warm outside. I haven't experienced a no start condition since the car was in Canada, but I have had the hunting idle issue resurface on a cold start.

When coming to a stop or clutching in, the car has a tendency for the rpm to dip so low that it stalls the car. After the dip, it's usually good. I don't think it's the alternator.

Anyone know what the symptoms are of a stuck/dirty ICV?

[GuidoK]

Too bad the clip is so short so you can't actually see what's happening. (keep cranking )

icv, i don't think so tbh.
Try to measure fuel pressure in the fuel rail. Check spark plugs for wear & flooding.
Otherwise cam/crank sensor. Try to find some live obd2 data.

[Finnegan]

Any updates?

Without reading codes or looking at sensor data plausibility my two thoughts are ICV or IAT. Even Alpha-N I think the IAT is connected to the ECU to allow air/fuel to be adjusted. Really hard to guess without codes/sensor readings.

[pokeybritches]

I drove the car today with no issues. It may have been bad gas, but I figured it would have been gone after 3 bottles of different types of fuel system cleaner and several tanks of gas over 1000+ miles. Now after 1500 miles, there are no issues.

I'm storing it until Thanksgiving, so I will give the next update then. Thanks for the help!

[dorifto88]

May I ask which s/c setup you prefer for the M now that you have experience with 2? =)

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by dorifto88

May I ask which s/c setup you prefer for the M now that you have experience with 2? =)

+1

[Westersund]

Originally Posted by nekky

The car turns over, but won't stay running. It will fire once or twice, but not continue. If you keep the key turned, the starter will disengage and try to re-engage (grind).

So I'm not the only one with this problem. When I started to get this I researched and didn't find anything. The problem is non existant when it's warm outside, I think I had the "grind" once during all summer. When fall came I got it more frequently.

First I replaced the battery just to rule that out. No difference. Then I changed the starter in the spring of 2013 and I didn't have any problem with it all summer, probably due to warm weather. But in the end of summer/fall it started to come back.

This year I brought the car to the BMW dealer and had them change the ignition switch. Same as 2013 I got the "grind" once all summer, but this fall when the temperatures go down and it gets more damp the problem comes back. However, it's less of a problem now. The ignition switch change made the car start faster when you crank it and the "grind" isn't as frequent. This car just doesn't like bad weather.

When I changed the starter in 2013 I checked the flywheel (The small part I could see) and I saw some on the teeth on the starter ring (correct word?) were beat up. I've been thinking that that could be a part of the problem, but then it should be a problem during summer as well I think.

I'm clueless! So is the BMW dealer. I don't wanna spend a huge amount of money having them search the car when they don't even seem to know what they are looking for. It was even me suggesting changing the ignition switch.

[pokeybritches]

I will be doing a writeup soon. Initial impressions are the G-Power setup makes power earlier, and is a scarier car to ride in. The ESS has more top end at 7k+ rpm (or at least it will with catless headers), and the power delivery is more linear and predictable. The G-Power car is a monster, ferocious, and has been described by a passenger as behaving like a violent animal clawing its way down the road. The ESS car feels more like a smooth rollercoaster, or progressively ramping up the throttles on jet.

It's harder to maintain traction in the G-Power car. The ESS car hits its stride from 6-8k rpm, where the G-Power car starts to run out of steam at 7k rpm. The G-Power car drives like it has a large V8 in it from 3k+ rpm. The ESS car feels only slightly faster than stock until you hit high rpm.

The two drive completely differently, and each has its perks.

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by pokeybritches

I will be doing a writeup soon. Initial impressions are the G-Power setup makes power earlier, and is a scarier car to ride in. The ESS has more top end at 7k+ rpm (or at least it will with catless headers), and the power delivery is more linear and predictable. The G-Power car is a monster, ferocious, and has been described by a passenger as behaving like a violent animal clawing its way down the road. The ESS car feels more like a smooth rollercoaster, or progressively ramping up the throttles on jet.

It's harder to maintain traction in the G-Power car. The ESS car hits its stride from 6-8k rpm, where the G-Power car starts to run out of steam at 7k rpm. The G-Power car drives like it has a large V8 in it from 3k+ rpm. The ESS car feels only slightly faster than stock until you hit high rpm.

The two drive completely differently, and each has its perks.

omg please please roll run them and settle which is actually faster.... that would be awesome!! , i can't comment for your red car, by my car hits its stride well before 6k

[pokeybritches]

I plan to do it It's not quite apples to apples yet, as I'm running SS V1 stepped headers and HJS 200 cell race cats on the G-Power car, but stock U.S. headers and U.S. section 1 on the ESS car. I'm going to work with CPI and do before/after dynos with their stepped headers, and I'm going to seek out a Frank Smith retune to go along with the headers. I may even get HJS race cats in a custom section 1, depending on the differences in the E46 M3 S-pipe (whether it's only length or it's other bends as well).

I love both cars, and I think the ESS car will end up with more peak power when all is said and done. It will be interesting to see what they do from a roll!

[Steeler]

Congrats on the purchase Josh you greedy SOB

[nekky]

I am very, very happy that the car went to someone like Josh. The car had been so perfect prior to him picking it up, and then *bam* it won't start and we have this issue. He was so understanding throughout the entire process and an absolutely nice dude!

[pokeybritches]

Originally Posted by nekky

I am very, very happy that the car went to someone like Josh. The car had been so perfect prior to him picking it up, and then *bam* it won't start and we have this issue. He was so understanding throughout the entire process and an absolutely nice dude!

Zac, thanks for being so honest with the car. It was clear that it had been well cared for. I expected some issues... comes with the territory, especially when buying an M car with forced induction in another country, sight unseen. Thankfully Zac was 100% forthcoming about every known issue, which made for an easy purchase decision. The trust went both ways - he let me take the car before the check had cleared in order to avoid driving through the winter snow (banks put a 30 day hold on foreign purchases of this magnitude, which neither of us knew). I think the issue came from sitting, because Zac considered it to be my car once I committed to buying it. Hopefully it's gone now.

The car is in such good condition, it has me replacing all of the rubber mounts (engine, transmission) on my G-Power car. It felt new when I drove it.

[Westersund]

If you get the starting issue sorted please let me know what the problem was. Even though changing the ignition switch made a difference the problem isn't cured.

And congrats on the buy.

[pokeybritches]

Originally Posted by Westersund

If you get the starting issue sorted please let me know what the problem was. Even though changing the ignition switch made a difference the problem isn't cured.

And congrats on the buy.

After a few more tanks of gas, the problem is gone. That leads me to think it was bad fuel, like everyone told me in the beginning.

[gas-can]

Wow Pokey, you stockpile these cars like a squirrel storing nuts.

I have to ask...why? You just love the zeds? lol

Glad the car's running great now though.

-gc

[Westersund]

Originally Posted by pokeybritches

After a few more tanks of gas, the problem is gone. That leads me to think it was bad fuel, like everyone told me in the beginning.

Interesting. So the grinding gears at startup is gone by just runing a few tanks of gas or are you talking about the hunting idle? I don't have any hunting idle just the intermitent gear grinding at start up. The gear on the starter grinds on the starter ring on the fly wheel. It's like it won't engage fully before it tries to start the car or disengage before the engine has started completely.

As I said earlier. Starter replaced with OE, battery changed and so is the ignition switch. I'm out of ideas. Maybe it's a bad electrical ground?

Nice to hear that your problem is sorted!