Advice Needed: Cracked Block and Piston Head

[dc_wright]

Originally Posted by Arsonism

(For those of you asking why this has finally come up, it's because I'll be towing the car soon more than likely as the property that it is currently stored on is not occupied by the shop anymore and at that junction I might as well have someone else start working on it or ship it somewhere else. If I have to buy a storage unit, I'm wondering just how large that unit is going to have to be, and if this vehicle will be stored there or restored somewhere else).
.

If they've moved the business and abandoned your car at their former premises it's pretty clear they're done with working on it, and have literally moved on. Sorry it's come to this end!

WRT moving forward, you're likely already well beyond equality on what you've spent vs. value of the car so it's a question of how you spend your disposable income to bring yourself pleasure. If you spend another $20K to get the car done right and back on the road at 100% the only sin will be not keeping it long term. If after it's fixed you keep it 10 years consider it $2K per year for entertainment costs. People go to Vegas annually, spend more than that per trip, and come away with little to nothing to show for it. You'll still have the E86.

[David70]

Originally Posted by Arsonism

RESOURCES
Mind you that about $20,000 has been invested into the car itself so far. I'm not really ashamed of this number anymore, it's just unfortunate that it's reached the point that it has. Would you still move forward?

The real question for all of this is, is it worth investing more? I'm attempting to remove the emotional out of this, because I know we all love these cars, but with all the failure so far and a perfectly functioning

For any problem that has happened and the resolution hasn't worked out as planned, it doesn't matter where you have been but where you are going. To me, any large repair on a car comes down to looking at the options and first one is to ask you is what is the car worth as it sits? Then, for each of the options you are considering, what do they cost and is the car worth more or less overall than it is worth now -

Current car value = $X (figure it out)
Repaired car value = Current car value + Repair cost needs to be higher than above or I wouldn't bother.
Repeat for the other options.

I would use the same logic if I had a $3k car where it needed a $1500 repair. If car as it sits was worth $500 but the $1500 repair would make it worth $3k again I would do it as I come out $1000 ahead in the end.

If the $3k car that is worth $500 as it sits needed a $2600 repair I wouldn't bother as the net result has me behind and I also have to deal with the hassle and chances the repair would be even higher.

Real numbers may be hard to figure out but estimates shouldn't be impossible and without some type of estimates on repair cost and value it is impossible to tell if further money makes sense. I would first consider a decent used engine and what the final installed price on it would be. Some re-sellers offer some amount of warranty.

[NickyC]

This story just seems to get worse, I'm so sorry for all you've gone through Arsonism. To think all of this started just because you took the step of doing preventative maintenance on the rod bearings. It's unreal.

I don't even know what to tell you. Get the car out of there and get it to a reputable shop and see what they think of the thing is all I can say. Sending the motor off to Lang isn't a bad idea, but that's still another what...$10k at least? I'd certainly want to know what I have in the car right now before I spent anymore money.

Also, let's be honest. We all love our cars of course and I personally will drive mine until it completely falls apart, but if you're talking big money here I think that money would be better spent on something newer. Another $20-25k would be better spent on something like an M2 for instance, get a nice car with a warranty and be worry free for awhile. That's something you certainly deserve after all this, best of luck to you.

[Arsonism]

Originally Posted by dc_wright

If they've moved the business and abandoned your car at their former premises it's pretty clear they're done with working on it, and have literally moved on. Sorry it's come to this end!

I just realized that I dropped that clue, but you are correct, that's the gist of the situation.

Originally Posted by dc_wright

WRT moving forward, you're likely already well beyond equality on what you've spent vs. value of the car so it's a question of how you spend your disposable income to bring yourself pleasure. If you spend another $20K to get the car done right and back on the road at 100% the only sin will be not keeping it long term. If after it's fixed you keep it 10 years consider it $2K per year for entertainment costs. People go to Vegas annually, spend more than that per trip, and come away with little to nothing to show for it. You'll still have the E86.

I hadn't really thought of it in those terms. I will admit that I've thought of something similar to it however. The cars that come out today do not really interest me much, especially for the 20k price range. To invest another 20k in another car currently means something more reliable and anyway you look at it, it will definitely not be as fun to drive. With that said, is it better to fix and hold onto an older car which you would actually enjoy driving? Or is it time to move to the safer options out there.

Originally Posted by David70

Current car value = $X (figure it out)
Repaired car value = Current car value + Repair cost needs to be higher than above or I wouldn't bother.
Repeat for the other options.

I follow your logic, actually to the "T". This wound up being a special case because of the money I owed into the car and what the car means/meant to me personally. The original repair started out at around a 10k-12k budget, with a chassis that would (if sold) would have been worth right around the same amount. At the most getting 24k out of the car would have been feasible for a rebuilt M Coupe to the right buyer if it was done right, and that would have put me ahead originally.

Complications arose which pushed the budget way over the amount that the car was worth, and with all that I had invested gradually into the project, there really wasn't a whole lot of turning back. If things had gone as planned, then I wouldn't be looking at another set of options. So traditionally I would absolutely follow your logic as listed above, but in this situation I've already surpassed the amount of which the vehicle is worth.

So let me pose you a new set of options for you, if you have 20k to spend would you:

A) Spend it on a new car with a warranty to be on the safe side and put the shell of an M Coupe away somewhere in storage to deal with later
B) Sell the rolling shell M Coupe for as much as you can whatever the cost just to get away from it
C) Fix the remainder of a car you've already invested too much money into, but you still love it and would probably prefer to drive over many of the new cars produced today.

The value is long gone, that's the sad part about a lot of this thread. In trying to do the right thing, it seems it never works out. I wonder if it's better to try one more time for the car that I would prefer to drive or if I should finally toss in the towel and make something more of this car another day. Or just sell the thing and leave everything behind me. Emotionally I know what I would want to do, logically I don't think it's the right move. Financially, I just become apathetic as I know I'm going to spend money one way or another.

Originally Posted by NickyC

This story just seems to get worse, I'm so sorry for all you've gone through Arsonism. To think all of this started just because you took the step of doing preventative maintenance on the rod bearings. It's unreal.

I don't even know what to tell you. Get the car out of there and get it to a reputable shop and see what they think of the thing is all I can say. Sending the motor off to Lang isn't a bad idea, but that's still another what...$10k at least? I'd certainly want to know what I have in the car right now before I spent anymore money.

Also, let's be honest. We all love our cars of course and I personally will drive mine until it completely falls apart, but if you're talking big money here I think that money would be better spent on something newer. Another $20-25k would be better spent on something like an M2 for instance, get a nice car with a warranty and be worry free for awhile. That's something you certainly deserve after all this, best of luck to you.

What/who/where do you think is the best way of getting the vehicle assessed? This is a lot of what I'm considering, but the vehicle has to be towed anywhere I wish to move it. I'm in Texas but honestly I don't know who to trust. Many times I don't trust dealers with large jobs, because a lot of times their technicians aren't always trained the way they ought to be and troubleshooting doesn't seem to be their forte.

I believe that you're right there, to invest the money forward and put this to the side. I used to invest a lot of time in studying the new vehicles that release but I've become discouraged as of late. I ought to get back into it. Maybe there's something out there that resembles the Shoe like the Ferrari FF that I've missed :.

Oh and as promised, the bike.


Bike 1 by Shane


Bike 2 by Shane


Bike 3 by Shane

[Finnegan]

Seems like a nightmare from which one cannot awaken. I won't dwell there, it isn't constructive.

My two cents:

Having a Z4M: For 20K you can just about buy a used Z4M. Maybe off by 5K, maybe 10K, but a well maintained one (heck, one with new rod bearings even) isn't going to be much more than 25k. And it's a literal turn key solution.

Engine: I'd consider the engine a total loss at this point. Maybe ok, maybe not, consider it gone.

My Preferred Option: Try to sell it "as is". Someone might want to put an S65 in it, a rocket motor, or a track toy engine. Recoup what you can. If you have a trusted party who can keep the car and deal with the transaction while you're deployed, this is a good option I think.

Part It Out: Tons of details, time, and headaches. It's only viable if you can DIY or have a shop and time to manage on selling piece by piece. That isn't going to be logistically possible for you at this point. We are back to sell as is.

New Engine: If you drop 10K into another engine, well, is three (or is it four) the charm? I'm not sure there's shop you can trust for the install and tuning. And then you're trying to manage this while deployed, car sits a year.

Thought Process: If you can recoup 10K, that plus the 20K get you into a used and well maintained Z4M when you're back from deployment. Or, that goes to putting a nice down payment on something much newer with a CPO warranty--maybe a flat 6 something or a V8 something.

Other Factors: Note that all of the above doesn't consider emotional attachments or sunk time/effort/dollars/emotion with the current car. On the other hand, it does let you end the final chapter of this horror novel, close it, and move on. That might be healthy. Only you can weigh and decide.

[dc_wright]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

Or, that goes to putting a nice down payment on something much newer with a CPO warranty--maybe a flat 6 something or a V8 something.

The factor that's missed here and the other poster's suggestion of an M2 is depreciation. If you put $20K down on a new M2 all of that is gone by the end of the first year, so you're no better off than putting $20K into fixing the existing Z4MC. You're not getting it back out of either of them.

You can reduce the depreciation hit by going backwards in time to CPO cars with a few years on them, but frankly the cars in the period between the Z4MC and the M2 won't be nearly as rewarding unless you can find a 1M and they're rare and expensive.

Looking at cars from a value vs. resale value (or for any other item that depreciates for that matter) isn't really the best way to look at it. Cost per unit of usage is really the measure to use and it can be less expensive per year to put more money into a car than it's worth than the operating expense and depreciation loss of something newer.

With this in mind your best approach might be dump it for whatever you can get out of it before you deploy and park the money while you're gone or second best to find the cheapest storage you can and park it until you return from your deployment and then get out of it what you can. You certainly don't want to buy something and incur the cost of it being stored for a year with no use because you can't get any more expensive than that. Any figure divided by zero (as in usage) is infinity.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by dc_wright

The factor that's missed here and the other poster's suggestion of an M2 is depreciation. If you put $20K down on a new M2 all of that is gone by the end of the first year, so you're no better off than putting $20K into fixing the existing Z4MC. You're not getting it back out of either of them.

You can reduce the depreciation hit by going backwards in time to CPO cars with a few years on them, but frankly the cars in the period between the Z4MC and the M2 won't be nearly as rewarding unless you can find a 1M and they're rare and expensive.

Looking at cars from a value vs. resale value (or for any other item that depreciates for that matter) isn't really the best way to look at it. Cost per unit of usage is really the measure to use and it can be less expensive per year to put more money into a car than it's worth than the operating expense and depreciation loss of something newer.

With this in mind your best approach might be dump it for whatever you can get out of it before you deploy and park the money while you're gone or second best to find the cheapest storage you can and park it until you return from your deployment and then get out of it what you can. You certainly don't want to buy something and incur the cost of it being stored for a year with no use because you can't get any more expensive than that. Any figure divided by zero (as in usage) is infinity.

Very good points. Even parking the money in a conservative investment vehicle is going to yield some return. Storing the car, running or not (or new) also requires insurance, so there's that cost as well.

Where I live fire is a constant threat, so even a project car needs some level of protection via some insurance coverage type. As we know from this thread, s*** happens, and it's best to plan for s*** to happen.

[Vanne]

Gday Shane,

Far out mate.. I was hoping for better news..
I guess the boys have all pretty much said what are best out of a dire situation options and i am really sorry it had come to this.

What would I do in your situation?

To be honest mate, i don't know. I can see there is a lot of emotional attachment AND stress attached to this car. Ive read through the thread a few times now, and even at this stage where we are at now is that its not clear on what the actual problem was at the beginning and now even after this rebuild its even more foggy.

So really, we are no further than we were at the beginning of the thread, albeit a lot of cash and heartache has been spent.

Gonna sleep on this tonight. Sorry about what you went through mate.

V.

[wdb]

My 2 cents. Worth about as much.

Keep the zed through your deployment. GET IT AWAY FROM THOSE FUCKERS and find a safe place to store it. Even in its current condition it will likely be worth more when you get back than it is now. Plus you'll have time to find and consider options. For example, a wrecked Z4M might come along.

Buy a daily driver. An old Honda, Tacoma, whatever, something that easily fits the budget, that you don't have to think about, and that you can rely on.

When you get back from deployment go take a look at your coupe. Your head will be in a different place than it is now, and your decision will likely be one that is more attuned to your needs at the time.

One final wild-ass thought: race car!

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by wdb

My 2 cents. Worth about as much.

Keep the zed through your deployment. GET IT AWAY FROM THOSE FUCKERS and find a safe place to store it. Even in its current condition it will likely be worth more when you get back than it is now. Plus you'll have time to find and consider options. For example, a wrecked Z4M might come along.

Buy a daily driver. An old Honda, Tacoma, whatever, something that easily fits the budget, that you don't have to think about, and that you can rely on.

When you get back from deployment go take a look at your coupe. Your head will be in a different place than it is now, and your decision will likely be one that is more attuned to your needs at the time.

One final wild-ass thought: race car!

Good and viable options. I'm going to repeat my "if you store" requirement of some kind of insurance coverage for theft, file, satellites failing from orbit, etc. That removes any potential worries too.

[Arsonism]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

Seems like a nightmare from which one cannot awaken. I won't dwell there, it isn't constructive.

My two cents:

Having a Z4M: For 20K you can just about buy a used Z4M. Maybe off by 5K, maybe 10K, but a well maintained one (heck, one with new rod bearings even) isn't going to be much more than 25k. And it's a literal turn key solution.

Engine: I'd consider the engine a total loss at this point. Maybe ok, maybe not, consider it gone.

My Preferred Option: Try to sell it "as is". Someone might want to put an S65 in it, a rocket motor, or a track toy engine. Recoup what you can. If you have a trusted party who can keep the car and deal with the transaction while you're deployed, this is a good option I think.

Part It Out: Tons of details, time, and headaches. It's only viable if you can DIY or have a shop and time to manage on selling piece by piece. That isn't going to be logistically possible for you at this point. We are back to sell as is.

New Engine: If you drop 10K into another engine, well, is three (or is it four) the charm? I'm not sure there's shop you can trust for the install and tuning. And then you're trying to manage this while deployed, car sits a year.

Thought Process: If you can recoup 10K, that plus the 20K get you into a used and well maintained Z4M when you're back from deployment. Or, that goes to putting a nice down payment on something much newer with a CPO warranty--maybe a flat 6 something or a V8 something.

Other Factors: Note that all of the above doesn't consider emotional attachments or sunk time/effort/dollars/emotion with the current car. On the other hand, it does let you end the final chapter of this horror novel, close it, and move on. That might be healthy. Only you can weigh and decide.

All extremely valid points and I appreciate you taking the time to list these.

It would be the third motor (or third attempt) however you'd like to look at it going back into the situation. It would be nice to bring an end to the concerns there, but the major component that holds me back from doing that is that the car has a perfect rolling chassis at this point. Everything has been redone with the exception of maybe some sitting rubber on the tires. She's just missing her heart.

Some part of me wants to get the motor evaluated. Somehow some way, I really want to see what all is wrong with it. I just don't want to spend the money. I think it's best to write it off, but I just kind of want to figure what exactly is left of it. Not sure if I would salvage or sell any part of that unless a mechanic was truly interested and they knew what they were getting into.

If I sold the car as is, what would you think it's worth? I know what I've put into the motor alone, and if I took that out of the scenario then there might not be much to truly salvage out of it. I wonder how much this would cost someone in work, and with that said, is that the amount you'd have to deduct in order to reach a reasonable price for the vehicle? This is a difficult question I would need help answering and that number figure would also change the outcome quite significantly as well. I think for the right number and not having to store the vehicle I'd sell it, I just would want it to be fair to both parties. (so uh... bring-a-trailer? )

Buying a new motor when I get back is an option, I don't know what kind of connection I'll have with the vehicle at that time. By that point I wont have driven an M Coupe for 3 years. Over half of the time that I've had this vehicle in my name... scary. Either way, I think that to buy this motor when I come back would mean a polished product that would beat anything that I would invest 10-20k into in regards to a new car.

My concerns with buying a new car, as of right now at least, is that none of them truly interest me. I haven't found a car that has brought excitement to me when I speak about it like the M Coupe has. As I've said before and in this thread, this was my super car... I really wanted nothing else when I bought it and I knew what I was getting into when I did purchase it. Most cars today aren't analog, they don't have as much power, they're heavier and bulkier, and generally all around under-powered. I understand that the M Coupe doesn't have the most power out of the BMW line up, but in terms of what you pay for horsepower per dollar for an S54 it's pretty high up there. Either way, bottom line is that I'm not sure it would be worth investing 10-20k into something I don't necessarily enjoy outside of a commuter car, but then I ask myself why I'm buying that in the first place. :

I suppose that's where those emotions hit me hard, but then again that's not for this car specifically... that's just for the M Coupe as a car from the furthest distance. Any M Coupe could bring that happiness to me. I'd just end up modifying it again with mostly cosmetic stuff like the last time

I kind of relate it to buying scopes for rifles. I don't know why anyone would spend $300 on a scope when they're building a $1,000-3,000 rifle. If the rifle can outperform the glass then you don't need to build that kind of rifle. If you can't afford the glass then you shouldn't be building the rifle at all. Essentially if you throw the cheap glass on there, you'll end up being able to see out to around 500m when the rifle can reach out to 1000m and beyond. You're literally setting your sights too low and short changing yourself in the most important place which you could invest your money.
Analogy Translation (?): If you have a honda civic, why would you throw an LS7 in there. Or an S54? Especially if you hate the body of the car.

I have a hard time justifying buying something I'm just simply not going to enjoy for the utility factor of it. If you have half of the puzzle, why not invest in completing it? I already have the scope, should I rebuild the rifle?

Those are the questions I continually ask myself. And then I ask myself immediately afterwards... will I ever learn my lesson? Probably not

So is it safer to buy a new M Coupe with the sale of this one? I'll have to rent a storage unit either way, it's about $50 monthly increase to the unit itself to store the M Coupe currently. I have insurance on it because I still owe on the car (not much, it's good debt so I keep it around, I don't owe much else anywhere). I wonder if jumping into unknown territory and or having to seek out another M Coupe will prove more challenging a year from now. Then again, I always liked Alpineweiss.

Originally Posted by dc_wright

The factor that's missed here and the other poster's suggestion of an M2 is depreciation. If you put $20K down on a new M2 all of that is gone by the end of the first year, so you're no better off than putting $20K into fixing the existing Z4MC. You're not getting it back out of either of them.

You can reduce the depreciation hit by going backwards in time to CPO cars with a few years on them, but frankly the cars in the period between the Z4MC and the M2 won't be nearly as rewarding unless you can find a 1M and they're rare and expensive.

Looking at cars from a value vs. resale value (or for any other item that depreciates for that matter) isn't really the best way to look at it. Cost per unit of usage is really the measure to use and it can be less expensive per year to put more money into a car than it's worth than the operating expense and depreciation loss of something newer.

With this in mind your best approach might be dump it for whatever you can get out of it before you deploy and park the money while you're gone or second best to find the cheapest storage you can and park it until you return from your deployment and then get out of it what you can. You certainly don't want to buy something and incur the cost of it being stored for a year with no use because you can't get any more expensive than that. Any figure divided by zero (as in usage) is infinity.

I most certainly view cars the same way that you have portrayed them here. There isn't much to gain from a vehicle other than personal entertainment and utility. If you can combine both of those for the cost that you expect to pay for a vehicle regardless, then I feel you've beat out the math.

I should make it clear that I wont need a vehicle before I deploy. I have struggled for the last five months without one, I most certainly can get around for the next two before leaving for good. It would be nice to kill the insurance before I left, but that would only save me about a $600 before all is said and done (it's a pretty low rate).

Depreciation isn't the greatest of concern, finding another vehicle however is. There may be something to the new M cars that I have overlooked but in-so-far they truly haven't impressed me much. I have faith that they'll turn around a bit, but I don't know where they'll end up in the next year. As stated at length above, I think the end result still remains with an M Coupe, it may just be how to go about getting back into a running one. If there are comparable options out there to the M Coupe, I'd love to know them... but to my knowledge (which is pretty extensive, however not all inclusive) there really isn't one.

Originally Posted by Vanne

Gday Shane,

Far out mate.. I was hoping for better news..
I guess the boys have all pretty much said what are best out of a dire situation options and i am really sorry it had come to this.

What would I do in your situation?

To be honest mate, i don't know. I can see there is a lot of emotional attachment AND stress attached to this car. Ive read through the thread a few times now, and even at this stage where we are at now is that its not clear on what the actual problem was at the beginning and now even after this rebuild its even more foggy.

So really, we are no further than we were at the beginning of the thread, albeit a lot of cash and heartache has been spent.

Gonna sleep on this tonight. Sorry about what you went through mate.

V.

I still want to hear your thoughts here bud let me know when you shake that last cold one off.

Originally Posted by wdb

My 2 cents. Worth about as much.

Keep the zed through your deployment. GET IT AWAY FROM THOSE FUCKERS and find a safe place to store it. Even in its current condition it will likely be worth more when you get back than it is now. Plus you'll have time to find and consider options. For example, a wrecked Z4M might come along.

Buy a daily driver. An old Honda, Tacoma, whatever, something that easily fits the budget, that you don't have to think about, and that you can rely on.

When you get back from deployment go take a look at your coupe. Your head will be in a different place than it is now, and your decision will likely be one that is more attuned to your needs at the time.

One final wild-ass thought: race car!

The only problem with a race car is simply that I would rarely want to pay to go drive the car at a track. I mean if it's a "Mexico" style race car, sure why the hell not. However that's gonna be a lot more money haha. I think down the road the sustain game is really what I wanted to play. This would be that mustang everyone held onto for me. Just one of those cars you have a really hard time letting go because it's so special. I mean 1:1,850 (approx.) for the states?! Man...

The car will leave their establishment sometime this week or next week. I'm working on the storage side of things and where to move it. That's the first step and then it will be towed away and back in my possession simply because I'm concerned what will happen to it if I'm not around to manage things (and it's already paid for, the repair bill anyways).

Originally Posted by Finnegan

Good and viable options. I'm going to repeat my "if you store" requirement of some kind of insurance coverage for theft, file, satellites failing from orbit, etc. That removes any potential worries too.

The car and bike will both be insured with some form of renters insurance if I can swing it for the storage unit. This will all be in place before I go and as I set up this storage unit. I've seen too many threads of random fires and vacation homes eating up cars here and there. I'd hate for that to be the end of this particular car as well.

----------------------------

I've delivered some counter points, I probably didn't address everything. I really do appreciate everyone chiming in on this and all those who are reading and probably thinking deeper for some options that we might have forgotten. I'm open to anything and really I'm doing my best to try and let logic take the wheel on this one. It has proved difficult though, especially after I went to see the car the other day, just to make sure it was still where we thought it was (yeah I had no idea where they had been keeping it).

As always, thanks for the support guys, you've been an anchor for me through this whole thing. I'm really not sure what I'd do without this community.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by Arsonism

As always, thanks for the support guys, you've been an anchor for me through this whole thing. I'm really not sure what I'd do without this community.

Group hug!

[Reborn_]

Damn, just spent last night and this morning reading this thread for the first time. I went on a roller coaster of emotion on your behalf. I obviously have formed an opinion on what you "should" have done, but I'm sure you've had the same opinion at some point or even now, and it's not going to add any constructive value to second guess past decisions or have an outsider such as myself do that for you, so I'll focus on the now/future. Here is my 2 cents on what you should do:

Throw up a sale ad on here/Craigslist/wherever you feel comfortable for a purchase as is for a price you would be comfortable with. This is to just get out of the financial liability while you are away. However, chances are that it won't sell in 1-2 weeks, so this isn't a real option anyway (or maybe you don't want to do it), so onto the more realistic approach in which you keep and store the car while you are deployed, and then come back:

Buy a cheap, reliable daily driver. Think Japanese, old, and boring. This is to tide you over so you aren't in a rush to do anything. I see 4 options after that:

1. Sell rolling chassis as is (see above, but now you have as long as it takes) and buy another M coupe. Keep DD so you have options in the future for big repairs, etc.

2. Sell rolling chassis as is and buy a new(er) car. If the car is more on the reliable side, sell DD.

3. Have Andrew Lang crate ship you a prepped and ready to drop in motor for the Z4M (built to whatever specs you feel comfortable with). Drop the motor in yourself as a learning opportunity. Part out the shoddy motor in place (yourself) to recoup some money. You will be doing inspections of each component because you are a stand up guy and won't want to sell bad parts, and it may lead to that closure you want of determining the root cause of the ongoing issue. Keep DD so you have options in the future for big repairs, etc.
* This option assumes you have the desire to do your own work, the desire to get your hands dirty and learn, as well as the space, etc.

4.) Same as #3, but then you sell the repaired M coupe and buy a new(er) car. If the car is more on the reliable side, sell DD.

5.) Fix existing engine in car - I would not consider this an option.

I would personally do option number 1.


I'm unclear though, it sounds like the car is maybe drive able (if you baby it)? Might help with the towing, etc. I guess I wouldn't worry too much about really screwing the engine up, as I agree with what someone said above - I would consider the engine in the car non-functional.

Also, wanted to extend my regret and sorrow for what you've had to deal with. It's truly heartbreaking. Good luck with the deployment, and whatever you decide is best with the car.

[Vanne]

Just thinking about the Andrew Lang thing.. Would it be possible at all to pull the engine and ship that off to Lang? Maybe as a show of ... fellow enthusiasm, he will do you a good deal? and i know for sure as heck we are all hanging to actually find out whats wrong with this engine..

The forum hype alone over this thread might be of some good advertisement for them?

The other plus point on this is that if Lang DO fix the current engine, and determine the root cause of the problem, then you'll have some legs to stick it to whomever bodged up the repair in the first place and hopefully recoup some of your lost funds.

I for one would LOVE to find out what on EARTH actually happened here over the last year or so. Anyways, just a thought.

Deployment will go fast while you are there, you will be back before you know with your loved ones.
Still in awe about where we actually are now in this thread.

Nice bike btw.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by Vanne

Just thinking about the Andrew Lang thing.. Would it be possible at all to pull the engine and ship that off to Lang? Maybe as a show of ... fellow enthusiasm, he will do you a good deal? and i know for sure as heck we are all hanging to actually find out whats wrong with this engine..

Crowdfund it? I'm in for $100. Serious.

[Vanne]

Sure, 100 from me no worries.
Thanks for your service, it's the least we could do.

[86Zed]

What a nightmare. It's clear you have serious love for the platform and want to end up with a Z4M at the end of the day.

I vote cut your losses with the current engine & shop and launch a serious social media and legal battle to get some funds back. This Lang idea is appealing no doubt - why not make the best of a crummy situation!

[David70]

Since you are about to leave I would park it in a garage, have minimal insurance for theft and fire (value as it sits isn't very much). Leave it and deal with it when you get back. I don't see a quick, easy solution.

Have you ever considered a used engine like this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-BMW-S54...25.m3641.l6368

You have to pay to get it installed and there is risk but I don't see a $20k here unless you go through a lot of engines. Then you have 30 days to return it which also comes with costs.

Thoughts on what to do -

Car's value with no engine is $4k (guess but anyone have other thoughts)?

Put $9k into it with used engine ($6k for engine, $3k to install it?) and value is then $18k at worst?

I really don't know if the values above are correct but think these are the type of options you have to look at. Money spent in the past is gone and irrelevant.

[Arsonism]

Originally Posted by David70

Since you are about to leave I would park it in a garage, have minimal insurance for theft and fire (value as it sits isn't very much). Leave it and deal with it when you get back. I don't see a quick, easy solution.

Have you ever considered a used engine like this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-BMW-S54...25.m3641.l6368

Then you have 30 days to return it which also comes with costs.

This would be ideal and I did consider buying whole engines to kick this off. Between these options and the option I chose originally, there was only a 1-2k difference in price, and there weren't any Z4 S54 engines up at the time.

Originally Posted by David70

Thoughts on what to do -

Car's value with no engine is $4k (guess but anyone have other thoughts)?

Put $9k into it with used engine ($6k for engine, $3k to install it?) and value is then $18k at worst?

I really don't know if the values above are correct but think these are the type of options you have to look at. Money spent in the past is gone and irrelevant.

This is where my concerns were in trying to sell the rolling chassis. I feel that there is more than $4,000 in parts for the chassis and the rest of the power train. I was curious to see how others would value this, so I would know what to expect if this was the next course of action.

I think that if I went through the hassle of putting another motor into the car and I saw it running... I'd just keep it. To me putting that $9,000 into the car is better than spending it on a down payment for a car that wouldn't really bring me the same level of happiness and isn't going to be paid off. Outside of that there's only one car I know that I can obtain for $9,000 that I'd love to drive, but it would have some miles and require attention soon I'm sure. I do realize that your equation above helps net around $5,000, I just don't know what to put that towards other than a DD to try to get my hands on another M Coupe.

Originally Posted by Reborn_

Damn, just spent last night and this morning reading this thread for the first time. I went on a roller coaster of emotion on your behalf. I obviously have formed an opinion on what you "should" have done, but I'm sure you've had the same opinion at some point or even now, and it's not going to add any constructive value to second guess past decisions or have an outsider such as myself do that for you, so I'll focus on the now/future. Here is my 2 cents on what you should do:

Yeah I've made quite the mess around here. I appreciate you taking the time to read the thread, it's accumulated quite a lot in-so-far, but it does allow others to hopefully learn from the experience that I've undergone. But I did want to take a moment to say thank you for taking the time to go through it.

Originally Posted by Reborn_

Throw up a sale ad on here/Craigslist/wherever you feel comfortable for a purchase as is for a price you would be comfortable with. This is to just get out of the financial liability while you are away. However, chances are that it won't sell in 1-2 weeks, so this isn't a real option anyway (or maybe you don't want to do it), so onto the more realistic approach in which you keep and store the car while you are deployed, and then come back:

Buy a cheap, reliable daily driver. Think Japanese, old, and boring. This is to tide you over so you aren't in a rush to do anything. I see 4 options after that:

1. Sell rolling chassis as is (see above, but now you have as long as it takes) and buy another M coupe. Keep DD so you have options in the future for big repairs, etc.

2. Sell rolling chassis as is and buy a new(er) car. If the car is more on the reliable side, sell DD.

3. Have Andrew Lang crate ship you a prepped and ready to drop in motor for the Z4M (built to whatever specs you feel comfortable with). Drop the motor in yourself as a learning opportunity. Part out the shoddy motor in place (yourself) to recoup some money. You will be doing inspections of each component because you are a stand up guy and won't want to sell bad parts, and it may lead to that closure you want of determining the root cause of the ongoing issue. Keep DD so you have options in the future for big repairs, etc.
* This option assumes you have the desire to do your own work, the desire to get your hands dirty and learn, as well as the space, etc.

4.) Same as #3, but then you sell the repaired M coupe and buy a new(er) car. If the car is more on the reliable side, sell DD.

5.) Fix existing engine in car - I would not consider this an option.

I would personally do option number 1.

I quoted David70 first simply because it lead into your thoughts above. The sale of the rolling chassis, if it yields enough to get out of the financial burden (which isn't that great) then I would consider doing it. Otherwise it would be difficult to justify for me at least... I need a storage unit and it will be paid for by the military while I'm away, so there isn't a whole lot of burden there. The debt on the car isn't a whole lot, and I can handle the payments, it'll be paid off by the time I return from the deployment. I'm most certainly not opposed to letting go of the chassis if it yields a segue into another vehicle; in which case it just would have to sell for a good chunk of change. However, I worry that it's just not worth what I think it is, pride an emotions aside... I'm not sure others will value the usable parts into the car as much as I would.

I like the idea of sending it off to Andrew Lang, I'd have to speak with him to see what he'd like to do for me before chasing after this option. I have spoken with him before and he was very receptive of trying to help me out, the shipping costs were the only thing that deterred me the first time around. I really should have gone with him the first time, and I do have some regret for not doing so at this point. This is not something I had considered and definitely a very good option. I'm unsure if the motor is salvageable or not and if it was if it would be worth selling. I could more than happily part that motor out for whatever was in good shape, it may take a 3rd party to ensure that those parts were ok to use in another vehicle, but it would be a fun experience and you're right that it would definitely bring me closure to tear it all apart.

Whether that motor was fixed or not, I'd probably still spring for a newer motor from another option and likely have someone pass over it (like Lang) and spend the money to really guarantee a product. This would mean selling the motor or it's parts that is currently in the car now.

On option one, what do you feel a good price for the rolling chassis would be? I'm not afraid to be fair, but I want to make sure that my thoughts on the price aren't so outlandish no one would consider it either.

Originally Posted by Reborn_

I'm unclear though, it sounds like the car is maybe drive able (if you baby it)? Might help with the towing, etc. I guess I wouldn't worry too much about really screwing the engine up, as I agree with what someone said above - I would consider the engine in the car non-functional.

Also, wanted to extend my regret and sorrow for what you've had to deal with. It's truly heartbreaking. Good luck with the deployment, and whatever you decide is best with the car.

The car is drive-able to an extent. I don't know how fast or at what rate it's eating the piston heads (I believe that's what's happening because it is pre-detonating, or so that's been told to me), and because of that it's obviously not very safe assume it will make it far. Damaging the components in the motor can also damage other new parts like the oil system and other tertiary engine support systems. Items I'd be better off not replacing as I've already had to go through them once.

Thank you again for investing your time here Reborn_, I do sincerely appreciate you going through the thread and offering your thoughts. It has been a great help and it has offered me new hope for getting something sorted for this absurd ordeal.

Originally Posted by Vanne

Just thinking about the Andrew Lang thing.. Would it be possible at all to pull the engine and ship that off to Lang? Maybe as a show of ... fellow enthusiasm, he will do you a good deal? and i know for sure as heck we are all hanging to actually find out whats wrong with this engine..

The forum hype alone over this thread might be of some good advertisement for them?

The other plus point on this is that if Lang DO fix the current engine, and determine the root cause of the problem, then you'll have some legs to stick it to whomever bodged up the repair in the first place and hopefully recoup some of your lost funds.

I for one would LOVE to find out what on EARTH actually happened here over the last year or so. Anyways, just a thought.

Deployment will go fast while you are there, you will be back before you know with your loved ones.
Still in awe about where we actually are now in this thread.

Nice bike btw.

It is certainly possible, I just hadn't considered it before. I'm for the idea, it's just a matter of the cost in removing the motor and sending it to him and then what the bill would be on both ends. I remember shipping a crated motor to him originally was around $800 at the cheapest. I called around for about a week and a half trying to work with different carriers to get it from Austin, TX to California.

I more than stand with y'all in wanting to know what is happening with this motor and where they kept going wrong. I think even the mechanic would like to know that at this point. Two motors and the same issue? I'm fairly certain that's cause for interest even at the lowest points of professionalism. It really just comes down to the upfront cost that it will take to get it there.

You're not wrong on this forum hype thing... I'm still blown away by it.

Also, sometime over the next 12-14 months I may try to come visit you and take you up on that cold one. It'd be awesome to come see you and your coupe in Dubai if you're still in that area. We'll just have to exchange some contact info offline you're still game for it. And as always, I can't thank you enough for your words of kindness Vanne.

Thanks on the bike it's pretty fun. (I've got some plans for it too............... )

Originally Posted by 86Zed

What a nightmare. It's clear you have serious love for the platform and want to end up with a Z4M at the end of the day.

I vote cut your losses with the current engine & shop and launch a serious social media and legal battle to get some funds back. This Lang idea is appealing no doubt - why not make the best of a crummy situation!

So uh, halfway there, details will come at a later date. I'm sure it's unwise to spill the beans on some of that until further actions have occurred.

Originally Posted by wdb

Crowdfund it? I'm in for $100. Serious.

... I don't know what to say to this. I like the idea, I've never done one. Would y'all really help me out on this? I never expected something like this to come from the thread but I would most certainly put my best effort forward in getting this accomplished if even just a few of y'all were up for the ride.

Originally Posted by Vanne

Sure, 100 from me no worries.
Thanks for your service, it's the least we could do.

I'm gonna eat my words before I can even get them out. I'll think about it over the weekend and try to reach out to LangRacingDevelopment to see if this is something they're also interested in. I wonder if his ears are burning yet

I have to move the car sometime early next week, and I'm already working with the shop to move it out of its current location. It would make for a good opportunity to get it to a shop that would crate the motor for me and send it off to Lang. The other consideration is, should I just ship him the whole car? That may be something only he can answer.

I've said it more than once here and it never goes unconsidered whenever I visit this site and this thread, I seriously can not thank you all enough for everything, and I appreciate the support more than you know. That goes for both the military work and especially everything y'all have read, considered, and advised on in this thread. I can't say it enough though.

[Reborn_]

It is a good idea to ship him the car. Shipping the car vs. the engine is roughly the same price. When the car is finished, you could fly over and drive it back for cheaper than shipping an engine back. Plus, you get Lang and not yourself or some unknown shop putting the new motor in. Now you are thinking! Also, I live 5 min from Lang, and am willing to help however I can with anything should that route materialize. Also, dinner and drinks on me if you end up coming out this way.


My thoughts on your rolling chassis estimate:

So your car is roughly 60k miles, 2nd owner. Assuming body and interior are in great shape, your car would easily fetch 30k prior to this debacle. Let's be conservative and knock off 5k for a non-original motor, putting its value at 25k if it were running perfectly. So, what's it cost to drop a motor in for someone who is in the market for a rolling chassis (i.e. someone who gets it done cheaper than you or me, because they clearly have experience or connections doing such things). Let's call that 8k for an S54. that drops your value down to 17k. Of course, there is a discount to be had, conservatively, say 5k. So I would personally value your rolling chassis at 12k. Though I have my doubts if it would actually sell for that price. I think in reality, you need to drop to 4 figures, so call it 9k as a reasonable price.

Edit:
I think the issue is, when someone is looking to buy a rolling chassis, it's usually for a race car, not to build a budget m coupe for street use. So they dgaf if your paint is immaculate, you're only the 2nd owner, you have brand new brakes and shocks (since they will be replaced), etc. So I suppose none of that really matters in assessing the value, and I've potentially over-estimated. But if it were my car and my situation, that's what I'd be looking to get out of it, or else I'd fix it and drive it or fix it and sell it.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Reborn_

It is a good idea to ship him the car. Shipping the car vs. the engine is roughly the same price. When the car is finished, you could fly over and drive it back for cheaper than shipping an engine back. Plus, you get Lang and not yourself or some unknown shop putting the new motor in. Now you are thinking! Also, I live 5 min from Lang, and am willing to help however I can with anything should that route materialize. Also, dinner and drinks on me if you end up coming out this way.


My thoughts on your rolling chassis estimate:

So your car is roughly 60k miles, 2nd owner. Assuming body and interior are in great shape, your car would easily fetch 30k prior to this debacle. Let's be conservative and knock off 5k for a non-original motor, putting its value at 25k if it were running perfectly. So, what's it cost to drop a motor in for someone who is in the market for a rolling chassis (i.e. someone who gets it done cheaper than you or me, because they clearly have experience or connections doing such things). Let's call that 8k for an S54. that drops your value down to 17k. Of course, there is a discount to be had, conservatively, say 5k. So I would personally value your rolling chassis at 12k. Though I have my doubts if it would actually sell for that price. I think in reality, you need to drop to 4 figures, so call it 9k as a reasonable price.

Edit:
I think the issue is, when someone is looking to buy a rolling chassis, it's usually for a race car, not to build a budget m coupe for street use. So they dgaf if your paint is immaculate, you're only the 2nd owner, you have brand new brakes and shocks (since they will be replaced), etc. So I suppose none of that really matters in assessing the value, and I've potentially over-estimated. But if it were my car and my situation, that's what I'd be looking to get out of it, or else I'd fix it and drive it or fix it and sell it.

Very good points, excellent points. And yes, you can (I have done this) ship the car for about 800 bucks. And like you said, there's the option to potentially pick it up and drive it back home, thereby not incurring the cost of shipping the engine back. (Depends on timing, storage, logistics.)

Plus, you get the not so small benefit of having a true professional remove/install. Lots of pluses here. Not the least of which is a forum member (you) close by. Lang would simply being doing their usual professional job, but in so doing, they'd help end a nightmare for one of those who serving our country. Heck they've already been quite helpful and supportive in the thread if I remember correctly.

The crowd-sourcing is interesting too.

Great discussion, I like where this is going.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by Arsonism

... I don't know what to say to this. I like the idea, I've never done one. Would y'all really help me out on this? I never expected something like this to come from the thread but I would most certainly put my best effort forward in getting this accomplished if even just a few of y'all were up for the ride.

Saving a Z4 coupe is worth it to me; finding out how the story ends would be icing on the cake. I've never done it either but there are crowdfunding websites where you can set up a page and let people contribute. You said shipping costs put you off from using Lang, maybe we can scare up enough to cover it for you.