Dinan springs install - Northern VA

AWM3 · 02-18-2010, 06:07 AM

I too have changed many sets of springs on BMWs. I have to disagree about the comments that you need an alignment. Lowering the car by one half inch will not cause a change in alignment sufficient to justify the expense. Tire wear will not be increased. In the rear, no parts are removed that would result in an alignment change, and the lowering by one half inch is insignificant. In the front, as long as the strut is replaced in the same position at the top (the upper strut mount) as it was originally, there should be a minimal increase in negative camber (which is good) and no change in front toe. Therefore an alignment after proper installation of these springs is unnecessary. If you are concerned about the expense of installation, wasting another $200 on an unnecessary alignment doesn't make sense.

dyerkes · 02-18-2010, 09:59 AM

I'd be happy to assist you with this, and I have the tools necessary to complete the job. However, I am going out of town this weekend and won't be back until next Friday. You are more than welcome to borrow the spring compressors if you want to get started on this sooner. PM me your contact info and we can make arrangements (I live in Loudoun county as well).

Regards,
David

AWM3 · 02-18-2010, 12:32 PM

A word of caution. Coil spring compressors are one of the more dangerous tools used in typical aftermarket parts installation. The compressed spring has stored a large amount of potential energy. If you don't use the spring compressors properly and a spring is released suddenly, serious injury could result. Please be careful and have someone show you how to do this who has experience.

vicj · 02-18-2010, 04:39 PM

His springs are already plenty 'broken in'. I did that for him....

DarkstarZero · 02-18-2010, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vicj

His springs are already plenty 'broken in'. I did that for him....

True

I bought the springs from vicj. I need to get wheels aligned anyway... Will BMW do this as part of the maintenance program?

vicj · 02-18-2010, 06:06 PM

No. You'll have to pay for it, unfortunately. And you WILL need to align the car, despite what these "experts" on a chat board are saying. Half an inch is plenty of drop to greatly effect the alignment, particularly the Camber. Since our cars already have a little extra camber in the set up, the drop will exaggerate this, greatly reducing your tire wear. Without camber plates, you won't be able to dial it all back out, but they'll be able to get close. IMO, it's worth the extra expense.

AWM3 · 02-19-2010, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vicj

No. You'll have to pay for it, unfortunately. And you WILL need to align the car, despite what these "experts" on a chat board are saying. Half an inch is plenty of drop to greatly effect the alignment, particularly the Camber. Since our cars already have a little extra camber in the set up, the drop will exaggerate this, greatly reducing your tire wear. Without camber plates, you won't be able to dial it all back out, but they'll be able to get close. IMO, it's worth the extra expense.

Sorry but you are incorrect. I can't prove it without before and after alignment specs on the same machine, same day, with the same technician, which I'm sure isn't going to happen. So we will just have to amicably disagree. As I said earlier, if he's trying to save money on installation, he doesn't need another alignment if his car is within correct specification currently. It is possible that his car is already out of spec. It is also common to get different alignment readings on different machines and with different technicians, without changing the car at all.

Z3Z4MC · 02-19-2010, 05:26 PM

It's not so much that you need an alignment to reduce uneven tire wear. There are caster, camber and toe. When you lowered a car, even half inch, one, two or all three of these will be off. If the toe is off unevenly on both side, like toe-in on one side and toe-out on the other, the car will handle like crap. If the toe is off in the rear, sometime the steering wheel will sit crooked, and so on. So, if your car handles funny or the steering is crooked after lowering the car, then YES, you need an alignment immediately.

vicj · 02-20-2010, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by car62

Sorry but you are incorrect. I can't prove it without before and after alignment specs on the same machine, same day, with the same technician, which I'm sure isn't going to happen. So we will just have to amicably disagree. As I said earlier, if he's trying to save money on installation, he doesn't need another alignment if his car is within correct specification currently. It is possible that his car is already out of spec. It is also common to get different alignment readings on different machines and with different technicians, without changing the car at all.

We can disagree on this one then. Somewhere, I have my alignment specs from when I had the alignment done after installing the Dinan springs on my car. The specs were significantly out just after install, and much better after the alignment. When I find it, I'll post it up, if I have enough posts to post pics.

Either way, a $100 alignment at a reputable BMW shop is pretty cheap insurance for your expensive tires...but that's just me....

DarkstarZero · 02-20-2010, 07:13 PM

Springs are installed! Thanks Wildng! Took longer than anticipated because the front struts need a 24mm and neither of us had one.

First impressions are that the ride quality is pretty much the same. Can't say any more than that because it's dark and the roads are frozen and have salt and gavel all over them.

More to come...

mousitch · 02-23-2010, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by car62

A word of caution. Coil spring compressors are one of the more dangerous tools used in typical aftermarket parts installation. The compressed spring has stored a large amount of potential energy. If you don't use the spring compressors properly and a spring is released suddenly, serious injury could result. Please be careful and have someone show you how to do this who has experience.

wildag · 02-24-2010, 09:21 AM

FYI, when we took off the stock springs, we had to use a spring compressor, but we really didn't have to compress them very much. When we installed the Dinan springs, we didn't have to use the compressors, because the springs were just barely short enough that we could thread the top nut without compression.

S2peed · 02-24-2010, 09:45 AM

I'm no mechanic and did my own springs installed which took me 1hr in the rear and 2hr in the front for a total of 3 hours. 5hr for a spring install is not reasonable, find another shop.

02-18-2010, 06:07 AM	#23
AWM3 BMW Fan 11 Rep 553 Posts Drives: 2012 E92 M3, Alpine White Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Georgia, USA iTrader: (0)	I too have changed many sets of springs on BMWs. I have to disagree about the comments that you need an alignment. Lowering the car by one half inch will not cause a change in alignment sufficient to justify the expense. Tire wear will not be increased. In the rear, no parts are removed that would result in an alignment change, and the lowering by one half inch is insignificant. In the front, as long as the strut is replaced in the same position at the top (the upper strut mount) as it was originally, there should be a minimal increase in negative camber (which is good) and no change in front toe. Therefore an alignment after proper installation of these springs is unnecessary. If you are concerned about the expense of installation, wasting another $200 on an unnecessary alignment doesn't make sense.
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02-18-2010, 09:59 AM	#24
dyerkes Private 4 Rep 94 Posts Drives: 2005 Z4 3.0i/SMG Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: South Riding, VA iTrader: (1) Garage List 2005 Z4 3.0i [0.00]	I'd be happy to assist you with this, and I have the tools necessary to complete the job. However, I am going out of town this weekend and won't be back until next Friday. You are more than welcome to borrow the spring compressors if you want to get started on this sooner. PM me your contact info and we can make arrangements (I live in Loudoun county as well). Regards, David
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-18-2010, 12:32 PM	#25
AWM3 BMW Fan 11 Rep 553 Posts Drives: 2012 E92 M3, Alpine White Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Georgia, USA iTrader: (0)	A word of caution. Coil spring compressors are one of the more dangerous tools used in typical aftermarket parts installation. The compressed spring has stored a large amount of potential energy. If you don't use the spring compressors properly and a spring is released suddenly, serious injury could result. Please be careful and have someone show you how to do this who has experience.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-18-2010, 04:39 PM	#26
vicj First Lieutenant 10 Rep 316 Posts Drives: '06 M Roadster; 2010 Mini Join Date: May 2008 Location: Maryland iTrader: (0)	His springs are already plenty 'broken in'. I did that for him....
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02-18-2010, 06:06 PM	#28
vicj First Lieutenant 10 Rep 316 Posts Drives: '06 M Roadster; 2010 Mini Join Date: May 2008 Location: Maryland iTrader: (0)	No. You'll have to pay for it, unfortunately. And you WILL need to align the car, despite what these "experts" on a chat board are saying. Half an inch is plenty of drop to greatly effect the alignment, particularly the Camber. Since our cars already have a little extra camber in the set up, the drop will exaggerate this, greatly reducing your tire wear. Without camber plates, you won't be able to dial it all back out, but they'll be able to get close. IMO, it's worth the extra expense. Last edited by vicj; 02-19-2010 at 11:44 AM..
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02-19-2010, 05:26 PM	#30
Z3Z4MC Private 0 Rep 80 Posts Drives: Z4MC Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: usa iTrader: (0)	It's not so much that you need an alignment to reduce uneven tire wear. There are caster, camber and toe. When you lowered a car, even half inch, one, two or all three of these will be off. If the toe is off unevenly on both side, like toe-in on one side and toe-out on the other, the car will handle like crap. If the toe is off in the rear, sometime the steering wheel will sit crooked, and so on. So, if your car handles funny or the steering is crooked after lowering the car, then YES, you need an alignment immediately. __________________
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02-20-2010, 07:13 PM	#32
DarkstarZero Lieutenant Colonel 1014 Rep 1,721 Posts Drives: Daytona 95 M3, X7 M50, e92 M3, Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Washington DC iTrader: (6)	Springs are installed! Thanks Wildng! Took longer than anticipated because the front struts need a 24mm and neither of us had one. First impressions are that the ride quality is pretty much the same. Can't say any more than that because it's dark and the roads are frozen and have salt and gavel all over them. More to come... __________________ BMW CCA Track Instructor Join to win a M School Day at the Performance Center! Enter Referral ID: 420186
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02-24-2010, 09:21 AM	#34
wildag ///M'n it Up 17 Rep 344 Posts Drives: '06 ///M Roadster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Reston, VA iTrader: (0)	FYI, when we took off the stock springs, we had to use a spring compressor, but we really didn't have to compress them very much. When we installed the Dinan springs, we didn't have to use the compressors, because the springs were just barely short enough that we could thread the top nut without compression.
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02-24-2010, 09:45 AM	#35
S2peed Second Lieutenant 23 Rep 240 Posts Drives: 07 Black Z4MC Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NYC (shaolin) iTrader: (1)	I'm no mechanic and did my own springs installed which took me 1hr in the rear and 2hr in the front for a total of 3 hours. 5hr for a spring install is not reasonable, find another shop.
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