Exhaust Hub upgrade

[RobMCoupe]

My understanding with two pins is more precise cam timing when installing the hubs. I guess you have both cams locked down in the same position. Not sure how true that is since I never done the job on S52/S54.

[inTgr8r]

Sure makes sense to me.
If cams were still locked together by the chain then one would be enough, but if not.....
You would definitely need two pins to keep them synced.

[beta]

Picture of the tool with the pin it comes with and the added pin. It's smaller yet heavier than I expected.

[RobMCoupe]

Nice!! Wonder what A & E stands for?

[inTgr8r]

Wild ass guess....

German for Exhaust - Intake to orient it properly.

[StickMon]

FWIW Einlass = Intake, Auslass = Exhaust.
Anyhoo

According to INPA, my exhaust adaptation is 14° out, and in the red.
I don't think the mechanic that replaced my vanos bolts got it right.
Car runs OK, and no SES, it just bugs the heck out of me.

I've done much Z4 and M3 forum searching, and I haven't found anything on cam timing that didn't involve vanos repair.

Does anyone know if it's possible to set the camshaft 180° from TDC, loosen the 3 accessible hub bolts, turn it to TDC, lock the crank, and loosen the other 3?
Then use the cam timing tool to get the camshaft correct and retighten?

Two places where I think this could go wrong:
1) Being able to set the splines with the right amount sticking out. Possibly could rotate the camshaft before loosening the bolts to set the spline position, then loosen the bolts and set with the cam alignment tool.
2) Retightening the bolts in sequence, and to the correct torque.

[beta]

Originally Posted by StickMon

FWIW Einlass = Intake, Auslass = Exhaust.

Good guess intgr8r

Originally Posted by StickMon

Anyhoo

According to INPA, my exhaust adaptation is 14° out, and in the red.
I don't think the mechanic that replaced my vanos bolts got it right.
Car runs OK, and no SES, it just bugs the heck out of me.

I'm pretty sure you can still fix it since the cams are floating. Go back to the videos linked on page 1, and watch the 4th and 5th videos.

[StickMon]

On the slog home I came up with a method in my head to at least check the cam timing without removing the vanos. Feel free to shoot holes in it.
The method, not my head.

Under the assumptions:
A) You have the head cover off, plugs out, and whatnot, because you just completed a valve adjustment.
B) You can't see the position of the splines and vanos pistons with the vanos installed.
C) The alignment pins on the tool should drop into the holes in the camshafts with the vanos pistons at the center of their available travel.

1) Turn the crank to #1 TDC and pin it.
2) Using the thin 24mm wrench, turn the camshaft CW as far as it will go. Presumably the vanos piston bottoms out.
3) Set the alignment tool up on the head and drop the pin in. It won't go through the hole.
4) Make a Sharpie mark where the alignment pin hits the camshaft.
5) Pull the pin and turn the camshaft CCW as far as it will go. The vanos piston is now at the other end of its travel.
6) Make a Sharpie mark where the alignment pin hits the camshaft.
7) The Sharpie marks should be evenly spaced about the camshaft alignment hole.
8) Repeat for other camshaft.

Coming: What to do if the marks are not evenly spaced, without removing the vanos.

[RobMCoupe]

Can you take it back to the shop that did the vano bolts? It might hard to convince them but worth a try.

[StickMon]

I took the car there for Inspection 2 shortly after I bought it 2 years ago.
He charged me $1500 and I'm increasingly convinced he never opened the hood.

Took it back 6-8 months later for tires, and to ask about the increasingly loud ticking from the valve train and he heard the unmistakeable sound of broken vanos bolts.
Not knowing any better, I would have driven it to failure. So I'll give him credit for saving my engine, and call it a draw.

When I picked the car up, it ran lousy and I got an SES 1/2 way home. Checked the code and it was intake camshaft position. Took it back and it took him 3 days to fix it.
Car ran OK after that, and I never gave it another thought until I got a GT1 knockoff and ran INPA.
Looks like he got the intake smack on, on the second try, but the exhaust was never right.
I don't have an SES light, so it must be just close enough to not run out of vanos adjustment, or at least not off enough to set a code. It just annoys me, and I'm possibly down on power.

[beta]

After that story I wouldn't take it back either.

I'll have more info once I take it apart myself, don't know if anyone else can chime in and help you out.

edit: added the flywheel locking tool to my parts post.

[StickMon]

I've been mulling over the TIS, and I can't seem to get it.
It says to set #1 TDC, set the camshafts with the timing tool, turn both hubs fully CW (retarded), and then install the vanos.
This guy installed his fully retarded, and it was way off.
As in other videos cited, the consensus seems to be "teeth just barely visible", which I guess is sort of "middle-ish" of the vanos piston travel.

The one advantage that I have is I know the intake is smack on, so I can use that as a gauge, and set the exhaust to match, assuming the exhaust isn't off by a tooth.

A remaining iffy bit is I doubt that you can just turn the camshafts back and forth with the vanos fully assembled. I'll probably also replace the solenoid gasket plate, since come maybe August when I'm due for a valve adjustment I'll be at about 100k miles. Maybe with the solenoid unit off the pistons will freely flap in and out.

[beta]

Originally Posted by StickMon

I've been mulling over the TIS, and I can't seem to get it.
It says to set #1 TDC, set the camshafts with the timing tool, turn both hubs fully CW (retarded), and then install the vanos.
This guy installed his fully retarded, and it was way off.
As in other videos cited, the consensus seems to be "teeth just barely visible", which I guess is sort of "middle-ish" of the vanos piston travel.

I think you have it backwards. You turn clockwise all the way, then turn CCW until the first tooth catches. It doesn't really say what to do after that, but the pictures show pretty much what the guides say to do: have the intake (right) side show a little bit of teeth, the left side (exhaust) a little less so it doesn't hit the pump - see page 5, third image down.

[StickMon]

That's what I meant, I just left out the "then turn CCW until the first tooth catches."
This still leaves you about as far CW as it can get without the spline falling out.

And then something magic happens, and they end up just as you describe.
I think the clue is hidden in the step where they don't tighten the hub bolts, but carefully pretension 2 per hub before jamming the vanos home.

Come to think of it, when I went to pick the car up the second time the mechanic said the timing was off because he followed the TIS, but it was wrong.
He may even have said that specifically, "they left out a step".

It's all starting to come together now.

OH, and after reading the TIS for the 20th time, I suddenly realize that it calls for a different tool to check the timing at the end. One with a single fixed pin. WTF is up with that?

[beta]

Originally Posted by StickMon

OH, and after reading the TIS for the 20th time, I suddenly realize that it calls for a different tool to check the timing at the end. One with a single fixed pin. WTF is up with that?

Here's a pretty good explanation that I don't understand I'll have to read it a few more times later see if it makes sense. But since we're only touching vanos and not the camshaft directly, it's possible we don't have to worry about it.

Monday update, got my hub!! Scott did an excellent job and shipped it fast. The dark appearance is due to the heat treatment.

[StickMon]

Wow nice hub. I know where to go when I eventually need one.
Yea, I'm going to have to read that explanation a few times, too.

It still gets me that so much attention is paid to dropping pins into holes, to the point that BMW has developed 2 different tools, but so little attention is paid to where are the vanos pistons when you're doing this.

They're tied together, so I would think that each would require equal precision.
Even hogger/hutch, in the last part of video 5, where he rechecks the timing after everything's buttoned up, says: "If it's off by a little don't worry. Just go ahead and move the cam on the hex portion of it until the pin slides in."

I think that's cheating.

[StickMon]

beta,

Do you think a thin 24mm wrench for the camshaft should be on your tools list?
Like this or that?



Also, if you go with the "pretension in a plane" method, you might need a torque wrench adaptation that can torque the hub bolts after the vanos is installed.
I can't quite figure out what's the deal with this BMW tool.
It apparently goes in place of the ratchet head of a torque wrench, but I doubt I can just pop the head off my Craftsman and pop this on. Need a set of crows feet. Have to remember to hedge the torque setting since the crows foot adds a moment arm.

Just bought this, and these. I bought a set of Neiko Torx a while back, and I'm real happy with them. Replaced a set of Lisle (yuck).

[beta]

Originally Posted by StickMon

beta,

Do you think a thin 24mm wrench for the camshaft should be on your tools list?

Good catch, I didn't even see that, thanks! I have a set of 10-19mm wrenches, so I'll have to order a thin 24mm.

Edit: Can someone confirm that I do in fact need a thin wrench? Will a regular snap-on not do the job?

Originally Posted by StickMon

Also, if you go with the "pretension in a plane" method, you might need a torque wrench adaptation that can torque the hub bolts after the vanos is installed.
I can't quite figure out what's the deal with this BMW tool.
It apparently goes in place of the ratchet head of a torque wrench, but I doubt I can just pop the head off my Craftsman and pop this on. Need a set of crows feet. Have to remember to hedge the torque setting since the crows foot adds a moment arm.

It's funny you link that, from the second picture I figured out it's a regular size 10. It turns out there's two size 10mm things you need to torque down: the bolts and the CCW threads that connect the helical gears.

So I ordered myself a single 10mm open end crowfoot:



I was planning on torquing them to 8 Nm instead of 10 to account for the extra leverage.

So far my tool list includes a 7mm wrench, a 10mm wrench, torque wrench capable of 8-10Nm, ratchet and the special tools in my post. I'll add 24mm thin profile wrench to that. Anything else I'm missing?

[Finnegan]

You probably already have the formula to calculate increased torque from the extension. But if not, or to double check here it is.

[inTgr8r]

Good info Ron.
I always wondered about those formulas that factor the handle length.
Would that not be calibrated into the torque wrench?


: edit:
Never mind; the brain just kicked into gear.
The handle length is a factor for the added extension torque. (not the wrench itself)

[StickMon]

Does anyone know what seals the vanos caps?
Would be an expendable item if the caps are removed.

[beta]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

You probably already have the formula to calculate increased torque from the extension. But if not, or to double check here it is.

Good info! I'll have to measure everything up once I get the crowfoot in. That and make sure I measure everything in metric so I don't pull one of these.

Using some guesstimated numbers it gives me 8.5 Nm. I'll verify with the exact numbers but it looks like it was roughly right.

Originally Posted by StickMon

Does anyone know what seals the vanos caps?
Would be an expendable item if the caps are removed.

I don't think they mean for you to remove the caps, so they use the expensive electric / compressed air contraption. Instead people just remove the caps and push them in with their fingers. RealOEM doesn't list it as a separate part either. From the videos though they have to remove the caps with a rubber hammer, so I'm assuming they're pretty snug on there and won't have leaks.