New CF roof Group Buy for Z4 M/non-M Coupe

[Palantirion]

Originally Posted by MMMazing07

CF hood is no use. the aluminum stock hood is light as anything

-A CF hood should cut 6-12lbs vs the aluminum one. And would provide better cooling via the GTR vents. And FYI: It's a GTR style hood, not a "Vorsteiner style" hood. Props go to BMW for designing the look that Vorsteiner and others have become famous for copying.

[Palantirion]

The group buy is ending at 10-1-08 (midnight EST). The thread has lingered long enough. The direct-to-the-manufacturer GB price of $1499 WILL END at 10-1. After 10-1 you can order the roof at its regular price through BMS.

Eric and I are both somewhat surprised at the lack of sales of this product. Considering before we developed it the only choice was a $1700 roof that was a visual abortion. The apparent demand for a quality CF roof, and my insistence as an enthusiast, is the only reason why Carbon Smith stepped up to pursue the project (at their expense) and there's no way I am going to be able to get them to make other products for us if they are taking the shaft on development costs due to a lack of sales.

Perhaps consumers just don't understand what separates a quality CF part from the much cheaper "Chinese junk" that seems to be the industry standard. If you aren't interesting in a CF roof for your Z4 Coupe, that's fine - to each his own :thumbup: But if it is a product you DO want, then you owe it to your car to buy a quality piece. We aren't driving Civics.

Below is an excerpt from an email Eric sent to me regarding our mutual frustration in getting this product in the hands of enthusiasts. He wanted me to explain why this is the best possible CF product you can buy for your Z4, but I think he did a fine job of summing up all the relevant points:

Hey Earl,

Below are the specs and lead times for the tops. I guess the biggest thing people need to understand is that we stand by our quality and quality is what sets us apart from any other Carbon Fiber supplier. I have fielded a few calls who just want the cheapest thing they can get. This is surprising considering that we are talking about a BMW Z4. I would think it would be the opposite. I think they still don’t understand how complex the Carbon Fiber manufacturing process is. It’s like they think we are slapping them together and making huge profits off of these tops, but I can tell you that when you add in the cost of the materials and labor, we are not making very much money.

We really want to help sell these tops, but I think it will be necessary for you to try and explain it to them in your own terms about quality, fitment etc. We can not cheapen or slap them together to save a buck, it just doesn’t work that way. We build quality products and at the end of the day, our name is on them. Because we supply Porsche, Tesla, Lamborghini, Mercedes and the like, we do not want to become known as just another ********** that sells product as cheap as possible. Our products will far outlast our competitors as we use only the highest quality Carbon, Epoxy’s, Clear, etc which adds significantly to the UV protection, quality and durability. I would think that someone who buys a BMW Z4 would appreciate quality...this is the good ole USA and as we know all too well, you get what you pay for and we are not looking to be known as the Wal-Mart of Carbon Fiber products.

Part # BMBMZ4RO01, BMW Z4 Coupe Carbon Fiber Roof
The standard version is 2X2 twill (Larger Fibers), for Plain Weave you will need to add a (-P) at the end of the part number.
Specifications:
-6 layers of T300 intermediate modulus carbon fiber fabric on the top skin.
-Surface can be either 3K plain weave or 3K 2x2 twill fabric if made from scratch.
-3 layers of 7500style 9oz fiberglass cloth on the bottom skin standard, with reinforcing fiberglass around the fasteners.
-Approximately 45% by weight high temperature epoxy resin matrix.
-8mm Riv-nut fasteners bonded in place to prevent pull-out.
-Factory fit and finish.
-Available with carbon bottom for additional weight savings (Additional Charge Applies).
-Can be unfinished for race applications for further reduced weight. Without clear, it might save as much as 1 lb.
-Standard Z4 CF roof cuts 12lbs from stock, that's 46% of the stock weight!
-One year warranty against manufacturer defects.

Note: Installation is the full responsibility of the customer, CarbonSmith does not warrant defects caused by improper installation. Our recommendation for installation is BMS in Huntington Beach
Shipping: Estimated days to ship from order date 3weeks ARO.

Regards,
Eric Meckes
CarbonSmith
eric@carbonsmith.com
770-318-5700 - Direct

In bold above I have highlighted three points that I find considerably important:
First, that the roof's backing is fiberglass cloth - not cut fibers like most CF manufacturers. This makes the part MUCH stiffer and will increase the stiffness of the Z4 as well as the lifespan of the roof.
Second, Carbon Smith uses epoxy resin - not polyester resin like most CF manufacturers. This increases cost, but greatly increases the product's resistance to UV yellowing. They UV-resistant clear they use also prolongs the roof's lifespan.
Third, Carbon Smith's parts fit EXACTLY like the factory parts. This isn't just a claim, it's a real fact. We all know how most aftermarket CF parts fit, and what problems bad fitment can cause.

Again, 10-1-08 is the cutoff date, so get your orders in to Eric - NOW!!!

[Dammmittt]

I'd love to help out, but unfortunately I can't right now. I'd love to get one, but it's not going to happen for a while.

[killjohnnyforan]

i got the 1700$ roof and it is perfect, not a visual abortion

[Palantirion]

Originally Posted by killjohnnyforan

i got the 1700$ roof and it is perfect, not a visual abortion

-Just curious: When and from what vendor?

[killjohnnyforan]

Originally Posted by Palantirion

-Just curious: When and from what vendor?

about 2 months ago from TC Kline, the east coast branch however, maybe that made the difference?

[Palantirion]

Originally Posted by killjohnnyforan

about 2 months ago from TC Kline, the east coast branch however, maybe that made the difference?

-I'm wondering if Carbon Smith made it. The one TCK shipped me was horrid, and even in web-res photos I could see weave problems in the TCK roof Luminor has (sorry). The previous roofs TCK sold were made by the company that made their Carbon Coupe and Carbon Roadster panels.

[jra]

I would love the gtr add on vent option if it looked better than the varis hood

[killjohnnyforan]

Originally Posted by Palantirion

-I'm wondering if Carbon Smith made it. The one TCK shipped me was horrid, and even in web-res photos I could see weave problems in the TCK roof Luminor has (sorry). The previous roofs TCK sold were made by the company that made their Carbon Coupe and Carbon Roadster panels.

the shipping label actually did say carbon smith... haha

[Palantirion]

Originally Posted by killjohnnyforan

the shipping label actually did say carbon smith... haha

-That's what I thought. So you basically bought a BMS roof and paid the wrong guy for it, lol.

To clarify: Carbon Smith paid for all the molding costs, owns the molds, and can sell them to whomever they wish (that's how we are bypassing BMS on the group buy to lower the price). But the roof only exists because of BMS. I refused to put TCK's crap roof on my car, so Chris at BMS found Carbon Smith, hooked them up with a base roof to mold off of, and did all the prototype testing and design changes. If it were a TCK roof it would have wandering weaves, two ugly seams near the chines and bubbles in the resin.

[Palantirion]

2 days left in the group buy!

[Hawkeye]

It is mods like this that makes me sad I have a black car. These look so nice on AW.

[Palantirion]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

It is mods like this that makes me sad I have a black car. These look so nice on AW.

-Are you kidding? Have you taken a look at a black M6? Their CF roofs look amazing on black (especially Sapphire Black)!

[Crimson92]

Originally Posted by Palantirion

I am putting together a Group Buy for those interested in a VERY high quality CF roof for their Z4 Coupe. The master thread is HERE.

I am also curious what other CF products the Z community would like to see produced. I have an "in" with Carbon Smith now, and they have told me that they are willing to make us ANYTHING so long as we can justify their expenses with appropriate sales. So let's brainstorm!

pic of the not so perfect roof?

[Palantirion]

Originally Posted by Crimson92

pic of the not so perfect roof?

-Are you asking about the original TC Kline piece or the Carbon Smith test pieces?

[Crimson92]

Originally Posted by Palantirion

-Are you asking about the original TC Kline piece or the Carbon Smith test pieces?

the test pieces they are selling at a discounted price

[Palantirion]

Originally Posted by Crimson92

the test pieces they are selling at a discounted price

-I don't have any pics, but they are easy to visualize. Picture a flat-primered roof. They are sold paint-ready only. You get the weight savings, but no ability to clearcoat the weave. This is to protect Carbon Smith's reputation for perfect quality. If it's perfect it will be sold cleared, if it's not perfect it will only be sold as a lightweight replacement for the stock steel roof.

[Dammmittt]

Can I get a special delayed group buy price?

[Palantirion]

Originally Posted by Dammmittt

Can I get a special delayed group buy price?

-Maybe there will be a sharp decline in materials cost? Sorry, but it's unlikely



Btw, I forgot to mention it before, but I met a fellow SoCal Z4 M owner (Roadster) this weekend. He looked my car over and asked how much the roof cost, $2500? he asked. I told him no, just $1699 and $1499 for this group buy. He frustratingly told me that he wished he had an M Coupe.

It's amusing to me, in the way that stubbing you toe is amusing, that in hindsight I should have originally marketed the roof as a $2500 roof. This would have been a more accurate proportion of markup over cost, in keeping with the industry standard. And it would be more accurate to the quality of the roof! (If you think that's a lot of $, go look at Varis' products) Anyway, if the roof had been marketed at $2500 then the $1499 GB price would be "a great savings", but since I hate marketing BS we listed the roof at only $1699 retail, which is just barely enough markup to justify its production. At $1499 we're essentially GIVING the roofs away, with the only "profit" reimbursing the labor to take orders and get them ready for shipping.

LAST DAY TO ORDER AT GB PRICE!!!

[Crimson92]

Originally Posted by Palantirion

-I don't have any pics, but they are easy to visualize. Picture a flat-primered roof. They are sold paint-ready only. You get the weight savings, but no ability to clearcoat the weave. This is to protect Carbon Smith's reputation for perfect quality. If it's perfect it will be sold cleared, if it's not perfect it will only be sold as a lightweight replacement for the stock steel roof.

damn!

[Crimson92]

i want in...but even though i have the funds...i should wait till times get better

[killjohnnyforan]

Mirror Covers!