986 S/987 boxster vs E85 Z4

[kyrix1st]

Hello, I am currently riding E85 Z4 3.0i (M54) SMG.

Since I track a lot more than I expected, I feel like I need a real manual transmission car, but sadly they don't sell MT in Japan.

So I've looked at alternatives, mainly 986 Boxster S and 987 boxster (and cayman too, except it's more expensive)

How do performance and maintenance cost differ from Z4 is what I would like to know, if any of you had experience of owning porsche.

Thanks!

[chickdr]

I had an '02 Boxster 2.7 prior to my M Roadster. The Boxster is a better handling car and will make you feel like a king on the track as it makes driving fast easy. It is a scalpel compared to the Z4. However, the Z4 is much more exciting and fun to master. There is a great comparison of the Boxster S and M Roadster on Top Gear you should see.

As for maintenance, you would be looking at P-cars with the infamous IMS bearing issue. It may, or may not crop up, but if it does you are looking at major $$$. The engine is a lot harder to access in the Boxster as well.

[Finnegan]

IMS would rule it out for me unless it were an earlier model where the IMS is easy to get to and replace. I'd just figure the cost into the cost of ownership and purchase. Not sure about availability in your region.

http://imsretrofit.com

[Huz-Z]

A friend of mine has a 2005 911, the 997 variant I think. Is that at risk for the IMS?

[an3ony]

FWIW, I used to be a tech at a private Porsche/Audi repair shop. We used to set track cars for several NER and PCA events, and did tech inspections for any make.

my experience with Boxters, any Boxter has always been that the owners neglect them. The 911 guys, whatever the problem was, they just simply said to fix it, but the boxter folk, they just let the cars go. Coincidentally the 928 guys were the same in the 90's

So I guess my point is to really, REALLY inspect whatever boxter you may be interested in.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Huz-Z

A friend of mine has a 2005 911, the 997 variant I think. Is that at risk for the IMS?

Anything post air cooled 911 era 911 up to 2009, and Boxster / Cayman up to 2009. Exceptions being the GT2, GT3, and Turbo variants of the 996 and 997 911s (based on a different engine).

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by an3ony

FWIW, I used to be a tech at a private Porsche/Audi repair shop. We used to set track cars for several NER and PCA events, and did tech inspections for any make.

my experience with Boxters, any Boxter has always been that the owners neglect them. The 911 guys, whatever the problem was, they just simply said to fix it, but the boxter folk, they just let the cars go. Coincidentally the 928 guys were the same in the 90's

So I guess my point is to really, REALLY inspect whatever boxter you may be interested in.

I test drove a 2.7L boxster 5MT recently and throttle response was phenomenal! No weird noise whatsoever except for aftermarket exhaust that sounded like one of supersprint's. it's on 77k km( around 45k miles). On the other hand, 3.2L boxster S that I drove had a very bad throttle response and when I lifted the car, showing some signs of leakage right under the transmission part. I suspect this is IMS failure on the way but I'm not sure. What would you say?

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

Anything post air cooled 911 era 911 up to 2009, and Boxster / Cayman up to 2009. Exceptions being the GT2, GT3, and Turbo variants of the 996 and 997 911s (based on a different engine).

This is what scares me the most. I don't know if I can fix it by myself since I have not worked with MR engines...

[Vanne]

To fix those cars with IMS, doing the fix, do you have to drop the engine, and how hard is that? (my mate is looking at a 08 Cayman atm)

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Vanne

To fix those cars with IMS, doing the fix, do you have to drop the engine, and how hard is that? (my mate is looking at a 08 Cayman atm)

08 Cayman is a PITA and IIRC an engine tear down. The earlier Boxster engines allowed you to pull and replace the IMS bearings without disassembling the engine. First generation Caymans require disassembly. http://lnengineering.com/index.php/products/ims.html

I would steer a light year away from any Generation I Cayman. Cylinder six scoring and chunking, insufficient oiling system and oil starvation, air oil separator issues and potential hydro lock, power steering system overheating and melting (track use), and "ice pedal" (track use, antilock braking system gets confused and the brake pedal basically stops working) are known issues with that car.

Our engine has known issues as well but those can be addressed with maintenance, whereas the Cayman's problems are fatal and cannot be addressed with simple maintenance. People try Accusumps, windage trays, multi-pump retrofits ($$$) and issues remain. I owned at one point and replaced with a Z4M. Glad I did.

Gen II Cayman is a totally different animal without those fatal flaws.

[ShakyDog]

Originally Posted by an3ony

FWIW, I used to be a tech at a private Porsche/Audi repair shop. We used to set track cars for several NER and PCA events, and did tech inspections for any make.

my experience with Boxters, any Boxter has always been that the owners neglect them. The 911 guys, whatever the problem was, they just simply said to fix it, but the boxter folk, they just let the cars go. Coincidentally the 928 guys were the same in the 90's

So I guess my point is to really, REALLY inspect whatever boxter you may be interested in.

I wonder if this is due to the owner not really being able to afford the car and not doing the needed maintenance, or just being lazy? This is also very good information. I do not plan on replacing my Lucy anytime soon, but I think a Porsche is the only option at this point.

Steve

[jra]

If you're going to track stick with the 987.2 I think it's something like 20k to retrofit the dfi into the 987.1

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by jra

If you're going to track stick with the 987.2 I think it's something like 20k to retrofit the dfi into the 987.1

Did you ever end up buying a Porsche? IIRC I think you were thinking of one way back when.

[Vanne]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

08 Cayman is a PITA and IIRC an engine tear down. The earlier Boxster engines allowed you to pull and replace the IMS bearings without disassembling the engine. First generation Caymans require disassembly. http://lnengineering.com/index.php/products/ims.html

I would steer a light year away from any Generation I Cayman. Cylinder six scoring and chunking, insufficient oiling system and oil starvation, air oil separator issues and potential hydro lock, power steering system overheating and melting (track use), and "ice pedal" (track use, antilock braking system gets confused and the brake pedal basically stops working) are known issues with that car.

Our engine has known issues as well but those can be addressed with maintenance, whereas the Cayman's problems are fatal and cannot be addressed with simple maintenance. People try Accusumps, windage trays, multi-pump retrofits ($$$) and issues remain. I owned at one point and replaced with a Z4M. Glad I did.

Gen II Cayman is a totally different animal without those fatal flaws.

noted, thanks Ron, were steering well clear, i think he now has his eyes on a 86.. (he got kinda scared when i told him about the IMS, and the rest of the issues you mentioned). he now thinks 5 year service contract. lol..

[kyrix1st]

Might just go with E36 M3C (3200cc) since it's full spec for my need.

[Huz-Z]

Originally Posted by Vanne

noted, thanks Ron, were steering well clear, i think he now has his eyes on a 86.. (he got kinda scared when i told him about the IMS, and the rest of the issues you mentioned). he now thinks 5 year service contract. lol..

Sage advice, to be sure. Man, Top Gear magazine used to bug the hell out of me last time I scanned a copy. They used to have one or two line car reviews in the back and the one for the Z4 used to make some smug comment about the Z4 being okay, and then referring to the Boxster you should have bought. Not much good if your Boxster's engine blows up while idling in the driveway.