ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BMW Z4 Technical Talk > Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain Modifications
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-15-2015, 09:11 AM   #1
SIMN
Private
SIMN's Avatar
11
Rep
56
Posts

Drives: 3.0si Sapphire Black Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: *

iTrader: (0)

Arrow SM tuning 3.0si, 293hp 360nm?

Hello, just wondering if someone tried this chip tuning from "SM chip tuning"? They promise 293hp and 360nm. Seem pretty high for a none turbo.

http://www.smchiptuning.com/1165/bmw-z4-e86-3.0-si-265
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2015, 08:27 PM   #2
SDCoupe
First Lieutenant
SDCoupe's Avatar
76
Rep
335
Posts

Drives: M Coupe
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (0)

That would be awesome! Please purchase and give a full report!

It looks like you need additional parts to get to maximum output. Otherwise their 20hp chip is in line with other chips like Burger power box which claims 14 hp and ESS or AA which can be even higher.
Appreciate 0
      06-16-2015, 10:46 AM   #3
SIMN
Private
SIMN's Avatar
11
Rep
56
Posts

Drives: 3.0si Sapphire Black Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: *

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDCoupe View Post
That would be awesome! Please purchase and give a full report!

It looks like you need additional parts to get to maximum output. Otherwise their 20hp chip is in line with other chips like Burger juice box which claims 14 hp and ECS which can be even higher.
Yes thats right, well I'm going to tune the ECU to 283hk och 340Nm
Appreciate 0
      06-16-2015, 11:24 AM   #4
pokeybritches
Colonel
pokeybritches's Avatar
United_States
479
Rep
2,782
Posts

Drives: ESS/G-Power Z4M, VF Z4, 996tt
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 BMW Z4M  [10.00]
2006 BMW Z4M  [8.50]
2003 BMW Z4 3.0i  [9.00]
40 hp for a tune on a naturally aspirated engine is dreaming. With headers and a full exhaust, maybe 20-30 hp. You need significant hardware mods to make 40 hp.

Do before and after dynos.
__________________


VF Engineering Z4 3.0i, ESS Z4M, G-Power Z4M, 996 Turbo
Appreciate 0
      06-16-2015, 11:31 AM   #5
SIMN
Private
SIMN's Avatar
11
Rep
56
Posts

Drives: 3.0si Sapphire Black Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: *

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
40 hp for a tune on a naturally aspirated engine is dreaming. With headers and a full exhaust, maybe 20-30 hp. You need significant hardware mods to make 40 hp.

Do before and after dynos.
20hp tune more realistic or still dreaming? Keeping the stock exhaust, I'm thinking of deleting the muffler but there is no hp gain there if so matter
Appreciate 0
      06-16-2015, 12:47 PM   #6
pokeybritches
Colonel
pokeybritches's Avatar
United_States
479
Rep
2,782
Posts

Drives: ESS/G-Power Z4M, VF Z4, 996tt
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 BMW Z4M  [10.00]
2006 BMW Z4M  [8.50]
2003 BMW Z4 3.0i  [9.00]
5 horsepower from a real tuner is about the max you can expect, unless you've deviated significantly from stock hardware. I wouldn't trust anyone that told me they could gain 20 horsepower on an otherwise stock car. Additionally, power achieved on a dyno can vary by 10 horsepower between runs. So, I could easily show my worst and best runs of the day, and without changing anything, show a 10 horsepower gain from doing "mod x".

Catless headers with relocated O2 sensors and secondary race cats (like HJS) will provide the most power gain without going forced induction.
__________________


VF Engineering Z4 3.0i, ESS Z4M, G-Power Z4M, 996 Turbo
Appreciate 0
      06-16-2015, 01:41 PM   #7
Huz-Z
Brigadier General
Huz-Z's Avatar
Canada
843
Rep
4,051
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0si, 328 XDrive, X5 35i
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

I don't think 5 hp would be even noticeable on on one of these cars, although you would notice the time and effort you took to install the thing and dearly miss the money you spent on it.
__________________
Huz-Z


BMW Z4 3.0si Roadster. Montego Blue Metallic. Premium and Sport Package.
Appreciate 0
      06-17-2015, 09:12 AM   #8
SIMN
Private
SIMN's Avatar
11
Rep
56
Posts

Drives: 3.0si Sapphire Black Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: *

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
5 horsepower from a real tuner is about the max you can expect, unless you've deviated significantly from stock hardware. I wouldn't trust anyone that told me they could gain 20 horsepower on an otherwise stock car. Additionally, power achieved on a dyno can vary by 10 horsepower between runs. So, I could easily show my worst and best runs of the day, and without changing anything, show a 10 horsepower gain from doing "mod x".

Catless headers with relocated O2 sensors and secondary race cats (like HJS) will provide the most power gain without going forced induction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huz-Z View Post
I don't think 5 hp would be even noticeable on on one of these cars, although you would notice the time and effort you took to install the thing and dearly miss the money you spent on it.
Why then do a lot of tuners promise +20hp then if its not possible? Or they do a lot of dynos and pick the best one and "sell" that?
Appreciate 0
      06-17-2015, 09:27 AM   #9
GuidoK
#buildnotbought
GuidoK's Avatar
10473
Rep
4,815
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tinkering in the garage

iTrader: (0)

Also remember when you go for really high gains on NA engine tunes, that some tuners run insane advanced ignition timings.
Maybe good for the last few HP, but very very bad for your rodbearings.
There is only so much you can do with a NA tune, and ignition timing mapping is probably the most significant.

If you want to stay NA, go for headers/cams and maybe a ported head.
Those are mods that do make a difference, and you could maybe get 50hp max extra (with the same revlimit)
__________________
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ supercharger | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers/KW camber plates | Sachs race engineering clutch | tons of custom sh#t
Appreciate 1
MVRS4.50
      06-18-2015, 10:18 AM   #10
SDCoupe
First Lieutenant
SDCoupe's Avatar
76
Rep
335
Posts

Drives: M Coupe
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (0)

Seems like a 5% gain is not unreasonable. Manufacturers always set their timing low so that it won't knock on the worst gas it can expect to see in a particular country. I think this is why the 3.0si is rated at 265hp in Europe (instead of 255hp in U.S.), the octane is higher there. The tuners advance the timing so you essentially have to always use 91 otherwise knock could occur. 5% increase on 3.0si is about 14hp. Not huge but it's nice to say you are running 270hp.
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2015, 03:42 PM   #11
SIMN
Private
SIMN's Avatar
11
Rep
56
Posts

Drives: 3.0si Sapphire Black Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: *

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
5 horsepower from a real tuner is about the max you can expect, unless you've deviated significantly from stock hardware. I wouldn't trust anyone that told me they could gain 20 horsepower on an otherwise stock car. Additionally, power achieved on a dyno can vary by 10 horsepower between runs. So, I could easily show my worst and best runs of the day, and without changing anything, show a 10 horsepower gain from doing "mod x".

Catless headers with relocated O2 sensors and secondary race cats (like HJS) will provide the most power gain without going forced induction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDCoupe View Post
Seems like a 5% gain is not unreasonable. Manufacturers always set their timing low so that it won't knock on the worst gas it can expect to see in a particular country. I think this is why the 3.0si is rated at 265hp in Europe (instead of 255hp in U.S.), the octane is higher there. The tuners advance the timing so you essentially have to always use 91 otherwise knock could occur. 5% increase on 3.0si is about 14hp. Not huge but it's nice to say you are running 270hp.
You two say different?
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2015, 10:32 AM   #12
SIMN
Private
SIMN's Avatar
11
Rep
56
Posts

Drives: 3.0si Sapphire Black Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: *

iTrader: (0)

Bump
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2015, 05:05 PM   #13
dc_wright
Captain
dc_wright's Avatar
249
Rep
758
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z43.0si Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Orlando, FL

iTrader: (0)

SM Tuning is located in Bosnia and Herzegovina. I could be wrong, but last time I checked that wasn't exactly known as a hot bed of BMW tuning expertise.
__________________
Top Down 365
Appreciate 0
      06-28-2015, 01:24 PM   #14
SIMN
Private
SIMN's Avatar
11
Rep
56
Posts

Drives: 3.0si Sapphire Black Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: *

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_wright View Post
SM Tuning is located in Bosnia and Herzegovina. I could be wrong, but last time I checked that wasn't exactly known as a hot bed of BMW tuning expertise.
Hehe I agree, but I know more shops offering about +15-20hp
Appreciate 0
      06-28-2015, 03:05 PM   #15
vachss
Captain
54
Rep
815
Posts

Drives: Z4 Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ventura County, CA

iTrader: (1)

Actual dyno data

Different tuner, but I posted this 5 years ago when I had my 3.0si tuned. 10 hp was what I got and I was told that was a "good" number for the N52 motor with no other mods:

Appreciate 0
      07-06-2015, 08:20 AM   #16
SIMN
Private
SIMN's Avatar
11
Rep
56
Posts

Drives: 3.0si Sapphire Black Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: *

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vachss View Post
Different tuner, but I posted this 5 years ago when I had my 3.0si tuned. 10 hp was what I got and I was told that was a "good" number for the N52 motor with no other mods:

10hp, does that make any difference?
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2015, 11:29 AM   #17
Steeler
Colonel
Steeler's Avatar
2422
Rep
2,697
Posts

Drives: Built not Bought 04 Z4 VF
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kitchener Ontario Canada

iTrader: (2)

I think you would feel that seat of pants.
Looks pretty steady difference across the RPM range
14 torques is where you would feel it
__________________
W2A Intercooled Vortech V3Si, custom ducting, Alpha N, 60# Bosch,2.62 pulley, multi port WMI, Severn Tuning(pokeybritches), Tial, magnaflow,SS race muffler, 42 design,3.91LSD, H&R, Hotchkis,ST coils,Konis, Megan camber arms, AKG SS, Nylon mounts, Poly bushings, Carbon interior, CF Aero.APEX
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2015, 08:50 AM   #18
SIMN
Private
SIMN's Avatar
11
Rep
56
Posts

Drives: 3.0si Sapphire Black Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: *

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbarton62 View Post
I think you would feel that seat of pants.
Looks pretty steady difference across the RPM range
14 torques is where you would feel it
Seat of pants? English is not my main language so please explain. 14NM do you feel? Im kind of new in this subject so please explain
Appreciate 0
      07-09-2015, 06:48 PM   #19
Steeler
Colonel
Steeler's Avatar
2422
Rep
2,697
Posts

Drives: Built not Bought 04 Z4 VF
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kitchener Ontario Canada

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIMN View Post
Seat of pants? English is not my main language so please explain. 14NM do you feel? Im kind of new in this subject so please explain
Hmm .........you will feel the difference without having actual data to support that feeling.

Anyone else care to elaborate?
__________________
W2A Intercooled Vortech V3Si, custom ducting, Alpha N, 60# Bosch,2.62 pulley, multi port WMI, Severn Tuning(pokeybritches), Tial, magnaflow,SS race muffler, 42 design,3.91LSD, H&R, Hotchkis,ST coils,Konis, Megan camber arms, AKG SS, Nylon mounts, Poly bushings, Carbon interior, CF Aero.APEX
Appreciate 0
      07-09-2015, 09:47 PM   #20
pokeybritches
Colonel
pokeybritches's Avatar
United_States
479
Rep
2,782
Posts

Drives: ESS/G-Power Z4M, VF Z4, 996tt
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 BMW Z4M  [10.00]
2006 BMW Z4M  [8.50]
2003 BMW Z4 3.0i  [9.00]
Dyno runs can vary by more than 10 horsepower between runs. That's not to say you can't gain 10 horsepower with a tune, and I'm certainly not saying the specific tuner that flashed Vachss' car is misleading. I believe it's a real power gain. But what a lot of tuners will do is post the worst baseline run (usually the first), and compare it to the best "tuned" run (usually the last unless the car is hot). That's why it's best to get independent third party dynos. The independent shop is only on the hook to give me a dyno, and it has no vested interest in what the numbers actually are.

Vachss' dyno sheet is believable because it's from a real dyno, unlike many of the MS Paint dynos that float around on vendor websites. Thanks for posting.
__________________


VF Engineering Z4 3.0i, ESS Z4M, G-Power Z4M, 996 Turbo
Appreciate 0
      07-12-2015, 11:18 AM   #21
SIMN
Private
SIMN's Avatar
11
Rep
56
Posts

Drives: 3.0si Sapphire Black Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: *

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbarton62 View Post
Hmm .........you will feel the difference without having actual data to support that feeling.

Anyone else care to elaborate?
Okey, so you do support a chip then?
Appreciate 0
      07-12-2015, 03:40 PM   #22
Steeler
Colonel
Steeler's Avatar
2422
Rep
2,697
Posts

Drives: Built not Bought 04 Z4 VF
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kitchener Ontario Canada

iTrader: (2)

Not sure I support a chip I do think they are hit and miss and as others have said the tuners will do all they can to build up their product on a webpage.

As you can see from my sig below I try not to go half way on anything when it comes to performanc mods.
A chip would not have been enough for me.
__________________
W2A Intercooled Vortech V3Si, custom ducting, Alpha N, 60# Bosch,2.62 pulley, multi port WMI, Severn Tuning(pokeybritches), Tial, magnaflow,SS race muffler, 42 design,3.91LSD, H&R, Hotchkis,ST coils,Konis, Megan camber arms, AKG SS, Nylon mounts, Poly bushings, Carbon interior, CF Aero.APEX
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:20 AM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST