Z4M oil: Castrol or original BMW? Quick reply appreciated

[RossBMWZseries]

It's time for me to do the oil change on both Bimmers. I always buy what BMW recommends for oil which is the Castrol 10W60, but I now see they also offer Original BMW Oil 10W60 in a blue label reading "M twin Power". It specifically indicates that it's for M engines, turbo and non turbo, including the S54. It's a little cheaper per liter compared to the Castrol. Which one do you guys opt for?

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by RossBMWZseries

It's time for me to do the oil change on both Bimmers. I always buy what BMW recommends for oil which is the Castrol 10W60, but I now see they also offer Original BMW Oil 10W60 in a blue label reading "M twin Power". It specifically indicates that it's for M engines, turbo and non turbo, including the S54. It's a little cheaper per liter compared to the Castrol. Which one do you guys opt for?

Oil discussions tend to be like talking politics!

Without seeing the specs of tests between the two, I really can't offer an opinion of merit. I can offer some opinion FWIW. First, I find the claim "good for all M engines" dubious at best (as a statement) as a turbo motor runs hotter oil temps, and spends its life at the lower end of the rev range. A high-revving motor like an S65 or S54 subjects oils to different stresses (and vice versa). In fact, for track applications, many of us are running RL (or other brands) of 15-50 due to what track stress does to 10-60. Horses for courses.

Where's that leave you? Maybe go with the traditional stuff for now, when you have time to research the specs like shearing, viscosity breakdown, additives.

[RossBMWZseries]

Everything you said makes perfect sense. Thanks for your input. I'm glad I went with the traditional Castrol.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by RossBMWZseries

Everything you said makes perfect sense. Thanks for your input. I'm glad I went with the traditional Castrol.

Cool!


And you've ready to run!

[KevinM]

OIL THREAD!!



Since the car has had Castrol 10w60 since new and my UOAs have been good, I kept using it when BMWs "official" oil supplier changed to Shell. For my E39 M5 as well.

[RossBMWZseries]

Ha good to know, thanks for the input guys. Now that you mention Shell, What do you guys opt for when it comes to gasoline? They did away with Shell here where I live so I don't get to pump V Power anymore. I would use Chevron as my 2nd choice but that's too far from my location. Any recommendations? I pump Exxon or Phillips 66 premium

[SaltyNC]

Dang, and I went out of the way to use the new Shell oil. Then again, I don't track my car and rarely get it above 5000 RPM, so for me it probably doesn't make much difference either way. So says the guy who needs a vanos work and new bearings. ;-)

Salty

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by RossBMWZseries

Ha good to know, thanks for the input guys. Now that you mention Shell, What do you guys opt for when it comes to gasoline? They did away with Shell here where I live so I don't get to pump V Power anymore. I would use Chevron as my 2nd choice but that's too far from my location. Any recommendations? I pump Exxon or Phillips 66 premium

I use Shell or Chrevron. But really, any Top Tier gas should do: http://www.toptiergas.com/licensedbrands/

[XMetal]

Originally Posted by KevinM

I use Shell or Chrevron. But really, any Top Tier gas should do: http://www.toptiergas.com/licensedbrands/

Same here for the M coupe - Shell or Chevron. But for my DD X5, it mostly drinks Costco or Arco now, which are surprisingly on the TopTier list - the old 13+ year girl is still purring and smooth as the day I took delivery.

[The HACK]

This is probably irrelevant to the discussion, but it just so happens I got my Blackstone UOA report back today, and I checked, the last time I changed the oil was almost exactly 1 year ago (well, before this last change 2 weeks ago to send in the used oil) using BMW's Shell Twin Turbo 10W60.

Not that it really matters, as the car had been running EXCLUSIVELY Castrol Edge 10W60 (or the BMW equivalent) for nearly 10 years before the Shell/BMW partnership necessitated the change (I didn't know they switched until GetBMWParts.com sent me the new oil change kit with the new TwinTurbo 10w60).

On my mechanic's recommendation I'm switching to LubroMoly 10W60, which by all technical specifications is BMW LL-01 approved and compatible, and about $3.00 per liter cheaper...Plus my mechanic runs it in his S54 converted E36 C-Mod race car.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by The HACK

This is probably irrelevant to the discussion, but it just so happens I got my Blackstone UOA report back today, and I checked, the last time I changed the oil was almost exactly 1 year ago (well, before this last change 2 weeks ago to send in the used oil) using BMW's Shell Twin Turbo 10W60.

Not that it really matters, as the car had been running EXCLUSIVELY Castrol Edge 10W60 (or the BMW equivalent) for nearly 10 years before the Shell/BMW partnership necessitated the change (I didn't know they switched until GetBMWParts.com sent me the new oil change kit with the new TwinTurbo 10w60).

On my mechanic's recommendation I'm switching to LubroMoly 10W60, which by all technical specifications is BMW LL-01 approved and compatible, and about $3.00 per liter cheaper...Plus my mechanic runs it in his S54 converted E36 C-Mod race car.

How many miles on that car now Hack, and how many track days? Original bearings? The wear related numbers are impressively low. I have this theory, but I'm holding off on discussing it until I see your answers.

Edit: Amazingly we have an oil and gas thread going here without anyone going all keyboard warrior. No one even banned. Gives one hope.

[The HACK]

I reserve my keyboard warrior persona for track pissing matches.

Car has 49,7xx miles now on factory OE bearings. I used to attend far more events than I do now, and back then I would take FULL advantage of my "instructor's pay" so it's hard to equate days from 10 years ago to today. It's easier to count the numbers of 20 minute sessions, and that's approximately 300 on this car. Best guess is about 7,000-8,000 miles driven on track, 70% of that spent during the first 5 years.

First week of ownership, as soon as the break in service was done at 1,000 miles, I took it to Auto Club Speedway. Other than ALWAYS do a warm-up lap until oil is past 180 degrees, I drive it like I stole it on track but usually keep it under 4,500RPM on the street unless I know I won't be caught (or in low gears on a canyon run).

I don't think I do anything special. I don't even change oil more often, the first 4-5 years or so I change it once between the free oil change that BMW pays for, but more often than not the 1 year mark comes up before the 8,000 mile mark. The other thing is outside the track miles 90% of all the miles piled up were done at freeway cruising speeds in 6the gear, I.e. driving to and from the track.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by The HACK

I reserve my keyboard warrior persona for track pissing matches.

Car has 49,7xx miles now on factory OE bearings. I used to attend far more events than I do now, and back then I would take FULL advantage of my "instructor's pay" so it's hard to equate days from 10 years ago to today. It's easier to count the numbers of 20 minute sessions, and that's approximately 300 on this car. Best guess is about 7,000-8,000 miles driven on track, 70% of that spent during the first 5 years.

First week of ownership, as soon as the break in service was done at 1,000 miles, I took it to Auto Club Speedway. Other than ALWAYS do a warm-up lap until oil is past 180 degrees, I drive it like I stole it on track but usually keep it under 4,500RPM on the street unless I know I won't be caught (or in low gears on a canyon run).

I don't think I do anything special. I don't even change oil more often, the first 4-5 years or so I change it once between the free oil change that BMW pays for, but more often than not the 1 year mark comes up before the 8,000 mile mark. The other thing is outside the track miles 90% of all the miles piled up were done at freeway cruising speeds in 6the gear, I.e. driving to and from the track.

All as I expected, warm up on track, lots of track use, and lower key use (mostly) on the street. I was figuring OE bearings as well, but that's more miles than I expected. Makes the oil analysis numbers even more impressive.

So, here's the thing, I'm betting you are very smooth with throttle inputs. No stabbing, stamping, jumping on throttle. Even when going WOT smooth application and squeezing the throttle. Probably even smooth off throttle. I'm wondering (with a wonderful sample size of one) if that driving style reduces stress on the bearings. Might be totally silly and might not account for motor physics/mechanics. That's no where in my area of knowledge.

But I'm looking at those miles, the kind of miles, and the Blackstone report and trying to see what differs here. Bearings are a consumable item almost like brake pads for some, others, not so much. A friend of mine has over close to 100K on her Z3M, and she has a lot of track time in there as well. But, she's super smooth on her inputs too. On, off throttle, it's never abrupt. I know others who hit the track a fair bit and have burned through bearings like a hot knife through butter.

Makes me wonder. In any case, keep doing whatever you're doing as it's keeping things nice and healthy!

[The HACK]

No, I don't "hammer down" on the throttle, I "grew up" driving a 170hp 323Ci on track, that weighed more than my MZ4 Coupe. I drive "it" like a momentum car. I only hammer down when it's someone else's car, gas, and tires.

My friend who drives a 2002Ti would probably laugh at that statement.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by The HACK

No, I don't "hammer down" on the throttle, I "grew up" driving a 170hp 323Ci on track, that weighed more than my MZ4 Coupe. I drive "it" like a momentum car. I only hammer down when it's someone else's car, gas, and tires.

My friend who drives a 2002Ti would probably laugh at that statement.

Well, not surprising given your background, instructor experience, and so on, but I haven't personally witnessed your driving style. While more data required, but it's pretty established that driving style among racers determines how long equipment lasts. Drive shafts, diffs, transmissions, clutches, and brakes all tell the tale. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the same with bearings and other motor components. Thanks for indulging my theory development!

[SaltyNC]

Finnegan, it sounds like these folks agree with your basic line of thought:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/fo.../125000/page1/

I have no idea how the first 30K of my roadster's life were driven. I had an initial oil analysis done, and everything looked fine. I do know how I drive, and it is all with proper warm-up, almost no short drive times, very easy launches, very smooth acceleration, no high revs, etc. My S54 now has almost the same exact miles as Hack, and my lead levels went very high in the last analysis. So, it could have been that the damage was all done to the bearings and only a micron of material was left for me to wear away before I took ownership of the car. Or? Just throwing out another anecdotal story.

Salty

[elerner61]

So it seems we're left with:
Castrol 10W-60
Liqui-Moly 10W-60
Redline 15W-50

Do we want to further discuss which of these is better suited for particular use cases:

- Daily driver that sees some short trips with some mid-range revving
- Weekly driver that sees suitable warm up and high revving (7K rpm) spirited driving but no track use
- Weekend car that occasionally sees some track use

I'm the second use case. I went one oil change last year with the BMW twin turbo oil and when I switched back to the Castrol I thought I noticed that my 3,500 rpm Vanos noise was more noticeable (until car was hot, 30 minutes of driving).

[yousefnjr]

I've gone back and forth between TWS/Edge & "the turbo oil" and didn't notice and differences. I believe last time I changed I used Castro Edge Supercar, which appears to be the latest TWS marketing exercise

[StickMon]

Thanks. I didn't know there was a "Castrol Edge Supercar".
Could be a contender for my next change, especially if our filters are on Amazon.

[RossBMWZseries]

Originally Posted by KevinM

I use Shell or Chrevron. But really, any Top Tier gas should do: http://www.toptiergas.com/licensedbrands/

Great, thanks for this info Kevin!

Originally Posted by The HACK

This is probably irrelevant to the discussion, but it just so happens I got my Blackstone UOA report back today, and I checked, the last time I changed the oil was almost exactly 1 year ago (well, before this last change 2 weeks ago to send in the used oil) using BMW's Shell Twin Turbo 10W60.

Not that it really matters, as the car had been running EXCLUSIVELY Castrol Edge 10W60 (or the BMW equivalent) for nearly 10 years before the Shell/BMW partnership necessitated the change (I didn't know they switched until GetBMWParts.com sent me the new oil change kit with the new TwinTurbo 10w60).

On my mechanic's recommendation I'm switching to LubroMoly 10W60, which by all technical specifications is BMW LL-01 approved and compatible, and about $3.00 per liter cheaper...Plus my mechanic runs it in his S54 converted E36 C-Mod race car.

Not sure I know how to read this chart lol.

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

I've gone back and forth between TWS/Edge & "the turbo oil" and didn't notice and differences. I believe last time I changed I used Castro Edge Supercar, which appears to be the latest TWS marketing exercise

Originally Posted by StickMon

Thanks. I didn't know there was a "Castrol Edge Supercar".
Could be a contender for my next change, especially if our filters are on Amazon.

I typically order from ECS Tuning and they always seem to have the cheapest prices online. I just noticed the label looks very much alike but doesn't read "TWS" anymore but Edge Supercar. Also, in the back of the label it reads "for BMW M models; for Koenigsegg engines". Should we feel special here?

[StickMon]

Originally Posted by RossBMWZseries

... Should we feel special here?

I think so!
To be put in a class with Koenigseggeggeggeggegg!

[AriuSen]

Ravenol. That’s what I use