ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BMW Z4 Technical Talk > Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain Modifications
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-22-2013, 03:18 PM   #45
Blind32
Certified Adrenaline Junkie
Blind32's Avatar
United_States
41
Rep
1,325
Posts

Drives: '07 Z4MC
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dallas TX

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 53Fatman View Post


Hope you like it

In the german forums its the same discussion about the rod bearings on nearly every M engine (S50B30, S50B32, S54B32, S62B50, S65B40, S85B50). Some look good, some bad.

Greetings

Karsten
That is great!
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2013, 01:33 PM   #46
Greyhound007
Enlisted Member
10
Rep
32
Posts

Drives: VW Soot Factory
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Windy City

iTrader: (2)

Wow, thanks for the heads up.

Haven't purchased my Z4M just yet, but this will be one of the first things addressed.
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2013, 01:59 PM   #47
gmd2003
Colonel
gmd2003's Avatar
352
Rep
2,176
Posts

Drives: 2014 CP M6 and 2006 VT 525 Z4M
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertRO
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
That's why I went with M6 oil cooler, it adds almost a liter of extra capacity , yet with a custom bracket , fits in the OEM position without any cutting/ trimming or blocking of the radiator . Now on track my avg temps have dropped 40 degrees which is huge as far as increasing the engines lifespan
Nice find. I have two questions:

1. Can you please confirm that the M6 oil cooler is part number 17 22 2 282 499 - which fits E60 M5, E61N M5, E63 M6 and E64 M6?

2. What about oil cooler lines? Do the original Z4M fit the M6 oil cooler without mods, or custom made lines are needed?
That's the cooler , the kit I purchased came with AN fittings with braided lines and the brackets pre made .the stock connections would working they wherein the correct place , but of course the Z4M piping and the M5/6 is in a very different path.
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2013, 05:52 PM   #48
kennyfrc
First Lieutenant
kennyfrc's Avatar
18
Rep
376
Posts

Drives: 2008 Z4MC
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: ATL GA

iTrader: (1)

I have never seen my oil temp get over 220F even under very spirited driving in 110F weather. Under what conditions are you able to achieve such high temps?
__________________
Toy: 2008 Silver Z4MC 300WHP/241TQ

Mods: OEM Euro Headers, RPI Scoop

Daily: 2010 Tacoma Double Cab
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2013, 06:18 PM   #49
Kgolf31
Brigadier General
Kgolf31's Avatar
459
Rep
4,531
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MC, 2012 128i
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyfrc View Post
I have never seen my oil temp get over 220F even under very spirited driving in 110F weather. Under what conditions are you able to achieve such high temps?
I hit 240F easily on a run for autocross. Any time I run I get that temp for a bit and it settles down after the run
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2013, 08:35 PM   #50
Shipkiller
Colonel
Shipkiller's Avatar
United_States
187
Rep
2,138
Posts

Drives: Me
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Virginia Beach

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyfrc View Post
I have never seen my oil temp get over 220F even under very spirited driving in 110F weather. Under what conditions are you able to achieve such high temps?
I actually wondered the same. I could see the elevated temps in an autocross, where the engine is working very hard doing very short, relatively slow runs, so you are minimizing the air flow through the oil cooler and having the engine heatsoak somewhat between runs.

At VIR and Summit Point raceways, even in 97' temps, I have never seen anything over 210, and normally the car runs at 200-205'. Now that I have changed my oil from TWS, I am seeing 10' less.

My first thought is that if you are seeing over 220' on the track, then something minor is wrong. Of course I could be missing some variable.


.
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2013, 08:53 PM   #51
gmd2003
Colonel
gmd2003's Avatar
352
Rep
2,176
Posts

Drives: 2014 CP M6 and 2006 VT 525 Z4M
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipkiller
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyfrc View Post
I have never seen my oil temp get over 220F even under very spirited driving in 110F weather. Under what conditions are you able to achieve such high temps?
I actually wondered the same. I could see the elevated temps in an autocross, where the engine is working very hard doing very short, relatively slow runs, so you are minimizing the air flow through the oil cooler and having the engine heatsoak somewhat between runs.

At VIR and Summit Point raceways, even in 97' temps, I have never seen anything over 210, and normally the car runs at 200-205'. Now that I have changed my oil from TWS, I am seeing 10' less.

My first thought is that if you are seeing over 220' on the track, then something minor is wrong. Of course I could be missing some variable.


.
I was seeing > 250 in the SC summer at the end of a 30 min PCA advanced group session . Of course being supercharged contributed , but the biggest factor is how you are driving your car , the length of the session , and track design. I was wringing out every last rpm to keep up with track prepped GT3 RS's . The cooling system of our cars is better than the E46M3 ( 2 extra oil cooler rows) but it does have its limits for true track work, thus my need to upgrade whether supercharged or not .
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 05:08 AM   #52
inTgr8r
Lieutenant General
inTgr8r's Avatar
Canada
2422
Rep
11,665
Posts

Drives: M2 Comp
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipkiller View Post
?..............
At VIR and Summit Point raceways, even in 97' temps, I have never seen anything over 210, and normally the car runs at 200-205'. Now that I have changed my oil from TWS, I am seeing 10' less.


.
what did you change to?
.....You probably posted elsewhere & I missed it?
__________________
'21 M2C Hockenheim Silver
'18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold)
'13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold)
'07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 06:02 AM   #53
gmd2003
Colonel
gmd2003's Avatar
352
Rep
2,176
Posts

Drives: 2014 CP M6 and 2006 VT 525 Z4M
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipkiller View Post
?..............
At VIR and Summit Point raceways, even in 97' temps, I have never seen anything over 210, and normally the car runs at 200-205'. Now that I have changed my oil from TWS, I am seeing 10' less.


.
what did you change to?
.....You probably posted elsewhere & I missed it?
If your oil temps don't go over 200 on track , you are not driving fast period . I saw no change in temps using TWS or redline 10/60 . To clarify my comments on the need for an oil cooler are based on an advanced level driver pushing the car hard on track .
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 06:46 AM   #54
kennyfrc
First Lieutenant
kennyfrc's Avatar
18
Rep
376
Posts

Drives: 2008 Z4MC
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: ATL GA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
If your oil temps don't go over 200 on track , you are not driving fast period . I saw no change in temps using TWS or redline 10/60 . To clarify my comments on the need for an oil cooler are based on an advanced level driver pushing the car hard on track .
Do you define "hard" as shifting every gear at 8K?
__________________
Toy: 2008 Silver Z4MC 300WHP/241TQ

Mods: OEM Euro Headers, RPI Scoop

Daily: 2010 Tacoma Double Cab
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 07:04 AM   #55
gmd2003
Colonel
gmd2003's Avatar
352
Rep
2,176
Posts

Drives: 2014 CP M6 and 2006 VT 525 Z4M
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyfrc
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
If your oil temps don't go over 200 on track , you are not driving fast period . I saw no change in temps using TWS or redline 10/60 . To clarify my comments on the need for an oil cooler are based on an advanced level driver pushing the car hard on track .
Do you define "hard" as shifting every gear at 8K?
That's part of it , but also being on throttle more than off , aggressive throttle off the apex of turns , minimal coasting, staying in the upper RPM range . If you do that on a track like Carolina motorsports park , that has lots of hard braking zones and tight turns , heat builds up fast on the stock system when the temp is hot outside .
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 07:10 AM   #56
David70
Colonel
United_States
1567
Rep
2,665
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4M Coupe - 13 Cadillac ATS
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
If your oil temps don't go over 200 on track , you are not driving fast period . I saw no change in temps using TWS or redline 10/60 . To clarify my comments on the need for an oil cooler are based on an advanced level driver pushing the car hard on track .
Do you have an estimate of what the temperature of the air is going into your engine (after the supercharger)? Doesn't seem like the supercharged car should be in the same conversation as the non. Guessing inlet temperature of 150 F +, or at least air temperatures that the non supercharged group could ever see even if driving in Death Valley?
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 07:19 AM   #57
gmd2003
Colonel
gmd2003's Avatar
352
Rep
2,176
Posts

Drives: 2014 CP M6 and 2006 VT 525 Z4M
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by David70
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
If your oil temps don't go over 200 on track , you are not driving fast period . I saw no change in temps using TWS or redline 10/60 . To clarify my comments on the need for an oil cooler are based on an advanced level driver pushing the car hard on track .
Do you have an estimate of what the temperature of the air is going into your engine (after the supercharger)? Doesn't seem like the supercharged car should be in the same conversation as the non. Guessing inlet temperature of 150 F +, or at least air temperatures that the non supercharged group could ever see even if driving in Death Valley?
I was having temp problems stock , I'm actually running significantly cooler with the blower and the upgraded oil cooler than I did stock . Yes post charger air temps are in the 150 range on track
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 10:51 AM   #58
Beedub
Major General
United Kingdom
423
Rep
5,327
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Interestingly my car runs cooler than it ever did stock since I went supercharged, it does however get to 2 o'clock mark pretty easily in 25 deg c on all day sprint sessions , the Setrab cooler seems to add around a liter in capacity. It's a very nice solution, ess should sell it as just a oil cooler upgrade to general public...it's very thick and recovery times are awesome!!
__________________
Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build.
Multi award winning Detailing | Wrap | PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 11:18 AM   #59
gmd2003
Colonel
gmd2003's Avatar
352
Rep
2,176
Posts

Drives: 2014 CP M6 and 2006 VT 525 Z4M
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beedub View Post
Interestingly my car runs cooler than it ever did stock since I went supercharged, it does however get to 2 o'clock mark pretty easily in 25 deg c on all day sprint sessions , the Setrab cooler seems to add around a liter in capacity. It's a very nice solution, ess should sell it as just a oil cooler upgrade to general public...it's very thick and recovery times are awesome!!
As I've mentioned to you before the Setrab setup for the VT-2 kits is fantastic and I would love if i could have gotten it, but my current setup is certainly more than enough for a stock car or VT-1.
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2013, 11:38 AM   #60
Beedub
Major General
United Kingdom
423
Rep
5,327
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beedub View Post
Interestingly my car runs cooler than it ever did stock since I went supercharged, it does however get to 2 o'clock mark pretty easily in 25 deg c on all day sprint sessions , the Setrab cooler seems to add around a liter in capacity. It's a very nice solution, ess should sell it as just a oil cooler upgrade to general public...it's very thick and recovery times are awesome!!
As I've mentioned to you before the Setrab setup for the VT-2 kits is fantastic and I would love if i could have gotten it, but my current setup is certainly more than enough for a stock car or VT-1.
Definitely ur solution is great :-)
Would be nice to custom a small inter cooler for your vt1. Ess will not release Thier Setrab kit oil cooler kit which is a shame.
__________________
Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build.
Multi award winning Detailing | Wrap | PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com
Appreciate 0
      01-27-2013, 06:23 PM   #61
pal
Captain
pal's Avatar
433
Rep
753
Posts

Drives: Z4 M Coupe
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
I'm not particularly surprised by this, PAL showed similar wear after 50 track days as well. (But I am very happy you posted this, it's great information!) I simply look at this as a maintenance cost associated with track use, not as something to get overly concerned about. This serves as a great heads up for those of us who use the car in this manner. I suspect that if we were to take a look at any engine with 5K track miles it's going to show wear in some areas. FI, even more so.

...

If you're using the car at the track, it's wise to keep records of track miles, temps, and change intervals. Goes w/o saying that more frequent oil changes are a must. Even a street car would benefit by going no more than 4K miles based on the UATs I've seen posted here. Personally I'm changing out my oil every 3 track days since I typically run in hot conditions.

My shop also recommends an increased volume oil pump (VAC Motorsport) for the S54, as they think that at high-revs under track conditions the S54 could use some help. (They've done this for their S54 powered race car.) When I do the bearings, I'm doing the pump as well.
Posted all my oil analysis data for the 14K miles and 16 track days since bearing change on my bearing thread. Here is the report for this thread as well. Looking at the numbers, I would venture and think that 40K miles is probably a better time interval to change these out for a car that sees regular track use (10-12 days per year or more). And some sort of objective data (like Blackstone) along the way may be used to adjust the 40K mile interval to sooner or later.

I love this car and this motor and want to keep tracking it for at least another 75K miles so want to be on top of any issues proactively.

Appreciate 0
      01-28-2013, 01:15 AM   #62
Beedub
Major General
United Kingdom
423
Rep
5,327
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Yup i'll address this @ the 20k mark, im doing 5-10 All day sprint days in the summer period and ontop the car is FI....... Looking forward to see what effect that's had on the internals!!
__________________
Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build.
Multi award winning Detailing | Wrap | PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com
Appreciate 0
      02-08-2019, 09:02 PM   #63
Vanne
Down Under!!
Vanne's Avatar
United Arab Emirates
1593
Rep
4,293
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MC
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Dubai

iTrader: (4)

Reviving an old thread, might look for an m6 cooler then.. part number 17 22 2 282 499...

Need to see a good drop in oil temp..
Appreciate 0
      02-09-2019, 06:26 AM   #64
Michael9218
Lieutenant
Michael9218's Avatar
593
Rep
482
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 M Coupe
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Woodstock, GA

iTrader: (0)

Oil should be run in a range. Too cool and you allow water moisture to build up in the oil. Minimum should be 212 F. Redline states their oil is good to 300 F. I shoot for 220-260.
Appreciate 0
      02-10-2019, 02:29 AM   #65
Vanne
Down Under!!
Vanne's Avatar
United Arab Emirates
1593
Rep
4,293
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MC
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Dubai

iTrader: (4)

Yeah Micheal, my runs hotter than that.. :/
Appreciate 0
      02-10-2019, 09:13 PM   #66
Shipkiller
Colonel
Shipkiller's Avatar
United_States
187
Rep
2,138
Posts

Drives: Me
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Virginia Beach

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael9218 View Post
Oil should be run in a range. Too cool and you allow water moisture to build up in the oil. Minimum should be 212 F. Redline states their oil is good to 300 F. I shoot for 220-260.
Where do you get this value for a minimum temp?


My car has never run that hot except on the track, and maybe 215, and this with ambient temperature of 95'.


Tooling around town, If I get to 200 that is the exception.



Of course, I do not use 10W60. I use 15W50 and have for almost eight years.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:20 AM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST