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      12-09-2012, 11:59 AM   #23
Finnegan
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R&P 3.91 545 (with shipping)
REM and polish 150 (with shipping)
Crush parts etc. fluids 400 (estimate, not priced yet)
Install 180
Total 1,275
Comparable diff swap with core 2,285 (not including shipping, fluids, or install).

Edited to reflect 3.91 R&P cost, will update when parts and fluid are priced.

Last edited by Finnegan; 12-09-2012 at 12:11 PM..
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      12-09-2012, 11:59 AM   #24
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Don't forget the oil, which you have to do twice (the second time is after the break in period).

It ends up being around 2k. A little more if you go with 4.10 gears, since those cost 1k new.
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      12-09-2012, 12:05 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
R&P 545 (with shipping)
REM and polish 150 (with shipping)
Crush parts etc. fluids 400 (estimate, not priced yet)
Install 180
Total 1,275
Comparable diff swap with core 2,285 (not including shipping, fluids, or install).
Thanks Ron
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      12-09-2012, 12:54 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
R&P 3.91 545 (with shipping)
REM and polish 150 (with shipping)
Crush parts etc. fluids 400 (estimate, not priced yet)
Install 180
Total 1,275
Comparable diff swap with core 2,285 (not including shipping, fluids, or install).

Edited to reflect 3.91 R&P cost, will update when parts and fluid are priced.

Thank you. I actually got quoted from diffs online 2,695 for 4.10 rem and polish not including shipping. This is may be the way to go if I can find a shop in SFL I trust to do it.
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      12-09-2012, 01:05 PM   #27
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We got a fantastic price for the 3.91 R&P from Bobby Rahal BMW. David is the parts manager, tell him we referred you and he'll give you a great price.

And yeah looks like my price was a bit optimistic, but you can see by Finnegan's breakdown that without the installation parts/consumables we're right under $900 for R&P, shot-peen/REM polish, install.

Doing some quick napkin math it looks like all the consumables + 2 fluid exchanges look right around the $400 that finnegan estimated.

@finnegan: don't forget to post your before pictures! I was thinking what a shame it was that I didn't take pictures before sending them off to get treated. The parts look much different when they first arrive.
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Last edited by beta; 12-09-2012 at 01:11 PM..
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      12-09-2012, 02:56 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beta View Post
We got a fantastic price for the 3.91 R&P from Bobby Rahal BMW. David is the parts manager, tell him we referred you and he'll give you a great price.

@finnegan: don't forget to post your before pictures! I was thinking what a shame it was that I didn't take pictures before sending them off to get treated. The parts look much different when they first arrive.
No worries buddy, I've got the "before shots"! (Hey, you did enough on the research/pricing end! )

"Before" pics posted here. Quite a difference!

I'm going to try and firm up the misc parts/install components and will update the price breakdown in post 23. I have questions about the part numbers I have for the seals and gaskets, and will work on tracking that down too.

Last edited by Finnegan; 12-09-2012 at 04:35 PM..
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      12-09-2012, 03:55 PM   #29
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Thanks guys .....really appreciate the leg work on this!
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      12-09-2012, 04:10 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r
Thanks guys .....really appreciate the leg work on this!
Yes thx.

So for us future FI people, the consensus is to stick with stock or max 3.91? I can't see 4.10's being usable (at least for the first few gears and wanting to put that power down properly - on the street).

Y/N?
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      12-09-2012, 04:21 PM   #31
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Starting to sound like y'all should sell the M's and by New Wave Mustangs or Chargers?
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      12-09-2012, 04:41 PM   #32
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Starting to sound like y'all should sell the M's and by New Wave Mustangs or Chargers?


It would just start all over again. To rephrase Yoda a bit: "Once you start down the Mod Path, forever will it dominate your destiny." It's cheaper than buying a new car (or at least I tell myself that. )
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      12-09-2012, 04:53 PM   #33
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I am getting 4.10 along with ESS VT2-500 and i don't care one bit about traction in 1st and 2nd gear. It's all about knowing how to drive the car and knowing where's your car's grip. watch some ayrton senna in monaco or in the rain and think that his car was a 1200 hp turbocharged MANUAL F1 car and he still put it all to the ground.

I'd say 3.91 is useless if not being used for a specific track and car setup. There's no point in spending money for all that hard work and just an 8% gain, go for the 13% and the fun factor.

Downside of 4.10 and why they do not matter vs 3.91
traction issues:
* I mean 1st gear is useless on the track even using the stock diff
* 2nd gear is more usable with 4.10 then stock e.g.: when you want to lock-up your car's rear for some understeer to oversteer conversion on some hard corners.
* 6th gear will have a relative ratio of 0.96 when used with 4.10 which will make it like a theoretical 5th gear with 3.62 and very very very usable on the track.
* 3rd 4th 5th will be closer as if you had a 5 speed close ratio transmission. coupled with 6th for those long top speed runs on some tracks.
* I can post the calculation sheet for gear ratios and how much they affect speed in each gear and what RPM they will be in when you upshift at redline.

Mileage:
* the mileage will suffer a bit if you have some highway driving, but i say to those people who care, go sell your M or buy a city car like a Kia picanto with 25K mpg.
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      12-09-2012, 05:08 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post


It would just start all over again. To rephrase Yoda a bit: "Once you start down the Mod Path, forever will it dominate your destiny." It's cheaper than buying a new car (or at least I tell myself that. )
Truer words never spoken
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      12-09-2012, 07:08 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caddyshk View Post
Truer words never spoken
Does that mean you're in?
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      12-09-2012, 07:33 PM   #36
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A small prob with 4.10s is that cruising on the freeway will be a good amount higher than my 3.91s currently are. At 80 mph, I'm at around 3.4k rpm. I think with 4.10s, it'd be at close to 4k rpm or something like that?
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      12-09-2012, 07:38 PM   #37
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With stock wheel diameters the 4.10s are basically dead on 3.5k rpm at 80mph.
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      12-09-2012, 09:41 PM   #38
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80mph is
stock - 3110 rpm
3.91 - 3350 rpm +240 rpm over stock
4.10 - 3520 rpm +410 rpm over stock +170 rpm over 3.91

wider tires (265/35 and 275/35) will add another 1.7-2.8% roughly +50 and +90 rpm.

Honestly 4.10 is not a huge change, the difference from 3.91 to 4.10 is a little more than half the difference from 3.62 to 3.91.

3.91 vs 4.10 is definitely a personal choice and will depend on the goal of your build. Most things in life are engineering trade-offs, tikamak brings up some great points
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      12-09-2012, 09:50 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beta View Post
80mph is
stock - 3110 rpm
3.91 - 3350 rpm +240 rpm over stock
4.10 - 3520 rpm +410 rpm over stock +170 rpm over 3.91

wider tires (265/35 and 275/35) will add another 1.7-2.8% roughly +50 and +90 rpm.

Honestly 4.10 is not a huge change, the difference from 3.91 to 4.10 is a little more than half the difference from 3.62 to 3.91.

3.91 vs 4.10 is definitely a personal choice and will depend on the goal of your build. Most things in life are engineering trade-offs, tikamak brings up some great points
Yup. And like you said, tires bring in another set of variables. Never an easy decision if you think through these things is it? Agree that tikamak brings up good points, as did Gtfour.

Last edited by Finnegan; 12-09-2012 at 10:00 PM..
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      12-09-2012, 11:09 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post


It would just start all over again. To rephrase Yoda a bit: "Once you start down the Mod Path, forever will it dominate your destiny." It's cheaper than buying a new car (or at least I tell myself that. )
Yoda, almost always ends the sentence in a verb. So to rephrase: "Once you start down the Mod Path (to the dark side), forever dominate your destiny it will"
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      12-10-2012, 02:40 AM   #41
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Just to add some drama, i've actually bought a small Kia picanto that is doing around 40 mpg to use as a practical small economical daily driver and this has given me the right to decat the M, supercharge it, put in some 4.10, maybe some slicks. seats, lightweight stuff, loud exhaust, stiff suspensino. whatever i am motivated about, what ever i feel like testing out in my car.
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      12-10-2012, 11:14 AM   #42
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I am leaning toward 4.10 now. No FI planned. I will keep my NA.
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      12-10-2012, 01:23 PM   #43
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^+1

Also, with all the great research already done, has anyone established a bushing/bearing etc re&re parts list?
...I started looking but drew a blank re OE part #s
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      12-10-2012, 08:02 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
^+1

Also, with all the great research already done, has anyone established a bushing/bearing etc re&re parts list?
...I started looking but drew a blank re OE part #s
I'm working on it, but wouldn't mind some help. I need to confirm the entire list below. It's a starting place.

Other things, and this is a list from a friend who had his E46 M3 done in the past month:
33121205138 securing plate for pinion (looks correct part#)
33121204657 crush sleeve (looks like wrong part#, 33121213949 looks like it is the comparable E86 part)
33107510289 output seals X2 (looks like correct part#)

Summit Racing TMK-HM803110 bearing race
Summit Racing TMK-HM803149 inner pinion bearing
(Note: race and bearing should be the same since the E46 M3 and Z4M can share R&P. But need to confirm.)
Other parts I think we need:
33108305033 (diff cover gasket)
33111214144 (o ring)
83190404517 (Loctite 5970 liquid sealant)?
I was going to call Tisher today, as there's a "gasket kit" for the differential that's ~25 dollars. I was going to see if that covered what would be needed, and ask for some advice on other parts. Sadly my schedule didn't cooperate. (I need to order some other parts for my header installs, and they're way cheaper than the stealer even w/discount.) I just don't know when my schedule will allow in the next few days.

If anyone picks this up, please keep this thread updated (I'll do the same should I find time to call.)
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