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      03-01-2011, 12:39 PM   #1
VinnieAces
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Anyone ever contact HPF?

Has anyone ever contacted HPF (Horse Power Freaks)??

I know they have some insane S/C kits for the S54 (e46 M3 fitted) and so all that would have to be done is refitting it into the Z4M bays..

anyone try asking them if it was possible? Tho i know this company usually costs big bucks but you truly get big gains!


Edit: Why cant we just ask every company that has made a S/C for the E46 M3 to fit it into our cars? (noob question)
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      03-01-2011, 01:32 PM   #2
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vinnie you can just fit anothercars supercharger for alot of reasons, diffent parts, hood clearance, different routing of pipework, and the biggest factor software tuning.

ESS has all the answers to your problem with a proper tried and tested method of forced induction, i absolutly LOVE mine, it looks so perfect under the hood.
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      03-01-2011, 01:59 PM   #3
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We don't have the M3 transmission, and no one really knows how our cars handle high horsepower applications. It would suck to break the ECU coding (or pay someone to do it like most tuning companies do), build a kit up, and then find out major parts can't handle the torque.

The Z4M is a small market. We have a different and supposedly better ECU than the M3, although we still use the M3's slow communication bus so its potential isn't realized. For reference it took an hour to flash the AA tune, which was only a few megabytes if I remember correctly.
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      03-01-2011, 04:41 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
We don't have the M3 transmission, and no one really knows how our cars handle high horsepower applications. It would suck to break the ECU coding (or pay someone to do it like most tuning companies do), build a kit up, and then find out major parts can't handle the torque.

The Z4M is a small market. We have a different and supposedly better ECU than the M3, although we still use the M3's slow communication bus so its potential isn't realized. For reference it took an hour to flash the AA tune, which was only a few megabytes if I remember correctly.
I thought I remembered Hammond commenting during his Top Gear review that the Z4M DOES have the same trans as the M3? I could be mistaken though.

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      03-01-2011, 04:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPWEraser View Post
I thought I remembered Hammond commenting during his Top Gear review that the Z4M DOES have the same trans as the M3? I could be mistaken though.
No, it doesn't it's the same transmission as the 3.0si. The M3 tranny doesn't fit.
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      03-01-2011, 04:55 PM   #6
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different trans, but ess had a 650hp z4m, and it seemed to handle the power ok until it crashed (at least I THINK it crashed)
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      03-01-2011, 05:18 PM   #7
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ECU is different, they are not interested in modifying the kit.
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      03-01-2011, 05:18 PM   #8
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Ah I see. I will have to watch it again to see if I was high when I watched it last!
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      03-01-2011, 05:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnieAces View Post
Has anyone ever contacted HPF (Horse Power Freaks)??

I know they have some insane S/C kits for the S54 (e46 M3 fitted) and so all that would have to be done is refitting it into the Z4M bays..

anyone try asking them if it was possible? Tho i know this company usually costs big bucks but you truly get big gains!


Edit: Why cant we just ask every company that has made a S/C for the E46 M3 to fit it into our cars? (noob question)


Actually it's a good question. I contacted HPF before I decided on my ESS VT2-500 and was told they weren't ready to start a turbo project for the Z4 M as of yet. I was told to hit em up in about a year before they would consider making a turbo kit for the Z4 M. The E46 M3 actually has a weaker sub frame and that is a "must do" reinforcement before they install the turbo kits. The Z4 M doesn't have this issue or any issue with the transmission to handle high horse power. The weak links will be the head studs under high boost just like the m3 and lowering compression with lc forged pistons and HD forged rods. The tuning is always a major consideration as well as fitment parts as Beedub noted. The head studs have been addressed by HPF with L19 studs that can handle major boost without lifting. Hpf has also found a way to bore and hone without any taper to allow 1200 horsepower out of these S54 motors. They don't actually reflash the DME like ESS does for our supercharger kits. They use a EMS in conjunction with the DME with amazing results. I think an HPF 2.75 kit on a Z4 M would be an absolute blast!!! You will be forking out $30,000... but what a ride that would be. Emissions would also be a concern as well. The problem with our cars isn't the ability to handle the power or tune them.... the problem is with supply and demand to support the cost involved with building these kits. Remember the Z4 M is a relatively rare car and was developed 4 years after the first E46 M3 which I believe was 2002. The E46 M3 was mass produced and is older with warranty not a player and price of cars being lower. Cheers

note: I predict you will see HPF Z4 M's in the next couple of years, with maybe 1 or 2 by next year
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      03-01-2011, 05:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
We have a different and supposedly better ECU than the M3, although we still use the M3's slow communication bus so its potential isn't realized. For reference it took an hour to flash the AA tune, which was only a few megabytes if I remember correctly.
The E46 M3 has a MSS54 ECU and the Z4M uses the MSS70 ECU.

I have heard/read that the MSS70 is very similar to the MSS65 ECU on the M5/M6. O-cha should have more/better info on this subject..
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      03-01-2011, 06:17 PM   #11
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just a quick clarification... HPF does not re-tune or re-flash the DME. They use their HPF Engine Management System(EMS) to control fuel and spark and the factory DME maintains control of TPS and idle functions. They use AEM engine management software for tuning their EMS. This could be considered a stand alone system except that they allow factory DME to maintain some functions of the car. This allows the car to be returned to full stock configuration if desired without hacking up DME wires. This setup would allow a very easy tune to the Z4 M especially with their master tuner. The problem is "supply and demand" economics 101 and getting the hardware to fit in the perfect place..which cost money boys. They are considering a Z4 M project within a year and that will require a loaner.
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      03-01-2011, 06:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fr8tdog View Post
This setup would allow a very easy tune to the Z4 M especially with their master tuner. The problem is "supply and demand" economics 101
From the horses mouth the tuning is the reason they refuse to do it. They are afraid it will be too difficult to adapt. I have spoken to them directly.
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      03-01-2011, 06:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
From the horses mouth the tuning is the reason they refuse to do it. They are afraid it will be too difficult to adapt. I have spoken to them directly.
Interesting I was told they would consider a loner for a Z4 M project next year when they had time. They never said anything about tuning problems, but I didn't ask them specifically about tuning problems either Thinking out loud though.... it seems that this would not be difficult considering they tune the E46 with basically a stand alone EMS. They do not tune through the factory DME, so it seems reasonable that they would tune the Z4 M the same way through their EMS with AEM software. Either case, they did tell me to hit them up in 12 months for a possible Z4 M turbo project.
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      03-01-2011, 07:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fr8tdog View Post
Interesting I was told they would consider a loner for a Z4 M project next year when they had time. They never said anything about tuning problems, but I didn't ask them specifically about tuning problems either Thinking out loud though.... it seems that this would not be difficult considering they tune the E46 with basically a stand alone EMS. They do not tune through the factory DME, so it seems reasonable that they would tune the Z4 M the same way through their EMS with AEM software. Either case, they did tell me to hit them up in 12 months for a possible Z4 M turbo project.
Right that's the same thing I said, but they had a lot of difficulty just getting the m3 up and running I don't think they wanted to take the chance of the z4 throwing similar "roadblocks".

At the time they were not interested at all, it's interesting they told you maybe in a year.

But FYI if you don't know the rule of the rule of thumb for automotive time estimates you multiply it by three and add 1 week.
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      03-01-2011, 07:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
Right that's the same thing I said, but they had a lot of difficulty just getting the m3 up and running I don't think they wanted to take the chance of the z4 throwing similar "roadblocks".

At the time they were not interested at all, it's interesting they told you maybe in a year.

But FYI if you don't know the rule of the rule of thumb for automotive time estimates you multiply it by three and add 1 week.
HAHA! right you are and some times longer. I think my last email sent to them was around 11/10. I was told they might be interested in a loner car for a Z4 M project, but they wouldn't be ready for at least a year because of too many projects they have going on. Hopefully they take the plunge. Cheers
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      03-01-2011, 09:13 PM   #16
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I suppose I wouldn't mind loaning my car for the development of a turbo setup. However, I doubt I could afford even the most basic turbo kit they're going to make [ 1) if they make one, 2) if they have different "stages"/kits ]
Also, assuming I can afford the R&D and downtime of my car, I'd still need reassurance that they will cover me a new motor if they blow mine up

Otherwise, hurray! Turbo!
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      03-01-2011, 09:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfanatic325 View Post
I suppose I wouldn't mind loaning my car for the development of a turbo setup. However, I doubt I could afford even the most basic turbo kit they're going to make [ 1) if they make one, 2) if they have different "stages"/kits ]
Also, assuming I can afford the R&D and downtime of my car, I'd still need reassurance that they will cover me a new motor if they blow mine up

Otherwise, hurray! Turbo!


yea... it's tempting. I know they have replaced a couple blown motors because of bad gas even with the knock siren working. The owners of these kits seem to be well taken care of. I would just like to see a turbo option for these cars
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      03-01-2011, 11:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fr8tdog View Post
The owners of these kits seem to be well taken care of. I would just like to see a turbo option for these cars
Well the better be lol...even for say $15k, which is relatively "cheap" for such a kit to be developed from the ground up; I'd still expect to be taken care of if I were a test mule

But yeah, I'm partial to turbos ever since my MR2
So I would love for a turbo option as well. Going to start saving up now for a few years, and hopefully I'll have enough by the time they ask for a mule/donor car
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      03-02-2011, 01:10 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by mfanatic325 View Post
Well the better be lol...even for say $15k, which is relatively "cheap" for such a kit to be developed from the ground up; I'd still expect to be taken care of if I were a test mule

But yeah, I'm partial to turbos ever since my MR2
So I would love for a turbo option as well. Going to start saving up now for a few years, and hopefully I'll have enough by the time they ask for a mule/donor car
haha yeah after i buy my coils i'm saving up with you!

exciting to hear that they were even considering this for our cars

thank you guys for your research!
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      03-02-2011, 04:07 PM   #20
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No problem man! Just to clarify what I said about being well taken care of.... HPF has replaced blown motors for the owners when they ( the owners) were driving their own cars with bad gas and a working knock siren system. Other HPF owners had the siren alert them to knocking and they saved the engine because they followed the proper procedure. My point is, HPF stood behind their customer even when they didn't have to. Regardless of the money spent on these kits..... it's nice to see this kind of backing. No one forces you to spend $30k or $40k to install a candle lit from both ends with zero margin for neglect, but when you do F up, it's impressive that HPF stood behind their customer base. I think this is a company with a bright future...just my take Oh, by the way.... I love my ESS kit and will hopefully progress towards the VT3-700. I just think a turbo Z4 M would be cool as F$#k.
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      03-02-2011, 05:04 PM   #21
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hell i'll loan MY car! I won't be able to drive it for at least a year come August anyway...might as well have someone making it faster, right? lol

but really id love to see something from HPF for our cars.
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      03-02-2011, 05:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fr8tdog View Post
No problem man! Just to clarify what I said about being well taken care of.... HPF has replaced blown motors for the owners when they ( the owners) were driving their own cars with bad gas and a working knock siren system. Other HPF owners had the siren alert them to knocking and they saved the engine because they followed the proper procedure. My point is, HPF stood behind their customer even when they didn't have to. Regardless of the money spent on these kits..... it's nice to see this kind of backing. No one forces you to spend $30k or $40k to install a candle lit from both ends with zero margin for neglect, but when you do F up, it's impressive that HPF stood behind their customer base. I think this is a company with a bright future...just my take Oh, by the way.... I love my ESS kit and will hopefully progress towards the VT3-700. I just think a turbo Z4 M would be cool as F$#k.
VT3-700 is 700hp at the crank????
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