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      07-08-2020, 04:59 PM   #1
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Z4M tuning issues with 288 280 cams (issues with stepped headers solved)

Hello guys!

I am new here. New in terms of posting, but been reading various threads for a long time. Finally decided to join and participate. AND, to ask for help. Help for how to solve the ECU tune for 288 280 Schrick std lift cams for mine 2006 Z4M coupe.

Before that I plan to write here a short history of tuning. It might be interesting for you guys to read about my experiences, especially because I also have one more S54 powered car, the lovely M3 E46 coupe in CSL silver color.

In 2012 I bought both cars as excellent condition low mileage cars. Z4M coupe had 34 tkm, now 45tkm. M3 had 42 tkm, now 89 tkm. M3 E46 is supposed to be a slightly modified daily, and it was for 5 years – how much pleasure it has given me – always makes me happy and puts a smile on my face. Now I drive it far less because I want to keep it preserved, and it really still is. With a Superspint street muffler, resonated mid section, decat anti rasp front section and stock euro headers it is just slightly louder, but has a nice tone and extra grunt. There is a tune with CSL rev match, also ESS SMG software, underdrive pulleys.. B12 Bilstein kit just slightly lower than stock, but with both anti roll bars upgraded.. a great and hassle free ride.. love it, love it! A 3.91 diff is the next “smooth” upgrade for M3.

Now, the Z4M coupe has a totally different role, as the character of the car really is different from factory – a beast! A complete TC Kline Racing suspension setup: DA coilovers, cambers plates, camber rear arms, just front thicker bar, geometry.. weight reduction, Supersprint race mufflers (light), forged light wheels, Li battery.. and NA power: Supersprint V1 stepped headers (good gains) with decat oversize front section, air scoop, underdrive pulleys.. a very intensive driving experience – a track focused car driven on the track.

In stock configuration I am sure Z4M has a bit more power than M3 E46 due to the more aggressive tuning from BMW and different ECU and harness (MSS70). I measured everything on the same dyno. Z4M had 300 whp peak power stock. Then with ESS tune got 309 whp, but power increase began only above 5000 rpm – proving how aggressive the tune is from stock. With the “power” button on, it is difficult to drive it smoothly, you guys know that. Adding just Supersrint x-pipe with race mufflers a gain of 3whp - 5whp is evident across the rev range, resulting in 312 whp of peak power.

Here is the dyno graph of stock tune vs ESS tune (showing gains only above 5000rpm):

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Here is the dyno showing gains of just the Supersprint x-pipe + race mufflers. Pleasant surprise was it for me:

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So, for the next step I was so excited! Supperprint V1 stepped headers with belonging catless first section! Proven from many sides as a great power upgrade. BUT, then first problems started rising.

First drive with same ESS tune shown a lot of issues.. Hick-ups, hesitations between 2k and 4k rpm, as well as torque loss… Only after 5000 rpm the car got power. Had no will to take the car to the dyno. On website ESS was very clear that their tune is not compatible with stepped headers , and they told me the same… so I was in search for another tune. I also tried the stock map and got less hesitations. Following some advice I bought new O2 sensors, no change. Also tried MAF from my M3, no change. So, I bought an Evolve map for V1 headers and decat. It was really better, but hesitations and hick-ups were still there.. If full throttle was applied bellow 4k rpm, it cuts the power. I was unable to do short 2nd gear power slides in city driving, while with M3 it was so easy to slide on bellow 4k revs. Frustrating. But, with the Evolve map the power was really there after 5000rpm. In the meantime I added underdrive pulleys and RPI air scoop. I decided to go on the dyno. And, peak power was 327 whp, but with hesitations evident. Here it is:

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Then I met two nice guys (today my friends) who started cooperation with one ECU tuner from Bulgaria – Madness Motorsport, Raychinov is his last name. At first we started by trying some maps just to eliminate the hick-ups and hesitations. And after two attempts, the issues really vanished – what a pleasant surprise! (I was beginning to lose hope, since Evolve was surprised with my issues, and their test tunes never solved the issues.) Then we went for a remote dyno session  And the result was 334 whp of peak power without issues! Great! A true 11% of power gain from stock. Here is Evolve (with gentle throttle) vs Raychinov dyno:

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With this power, the car was a blast to drive. Starting from 50 km/h up to 290 km/h my front was just a couple of meters away from the back of my buddies stock M5 V10. He was shocked to see me so close on those speeds, since he was used to see cars vanishing in his mirror after 200 km/h. Ok, my car had 40kg less already. The 7 speed SMG has closer ratios, the weakest point of our cars is shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear, when the revs drops too much.

So, issues with using stepped headers on Z4M were evident in my case, but they can be solved. And Supersprint V1 headers give serious gains over euro headers, so it’s worth the hassle.

My buddy also had and still has a stock E92 M3 manual, which is slower than my Z4M, so we went to measure his V8 M3 on the same dyno. While we were at it, the same day a took mine M3 E46 too. (While my M3 is very, very close stock V8 M3, it is even up to 200 km/h and then starts losing a few meters..) Here were the results of peak power:
• Z4M – 334 whp
• E92 M3 stock – 340 whp
• E46 M3 – 312 whp (gentle mods described above)
Here is the graph my Z4M vs M3 V8 stock:

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See how close they are! S54 is a masterpiece! Here is the graph M3 E46 vs Z4M:

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See what headers do above 6000 rpm. Since that the only difference between the two S54, both are decat, air scoops and have same underdrive pulleys. Ok, Z4M has race muffler, M3 has street version of Supersprint muffler.

THEN …

I was quite happy, and instead of just going for a 3.91 diff for Z4M (which I did later) and continue with weight reduction (Recaro Pole seats and A/C delete) I ordered Schrick 288 280 std lift cams with new Schrick DLC coated rocker arms.

Installation was done nicely, but it did look scary LOL. I was there and followed every step. Did not do any vanos related repairs since the engine is really like new. When I turned on the engine first time after the cam swap, it was just like nothing has been done. No vanos noise on the start up, everything smooth, valve clearance job done, no codes, everything great.

First drive was with the previous custom map from Raychinov. I also ordered the Evolve “cam” map for those cams, just to check it out. I was difficult for me to conclude the power difference from before. The power rise on high rpms was felt, but it can also be due to the loss in lower revs – I know that could happen. Unfortunately the hesitations and hick-ups returned. Before going to the dyno I’ve measured with gps accelerations from 100 to 200 km/h and the car was 0.5 seconds slower. At that time I was thinking: “OK, don’t get upset, Raychinov will make a custom tune for cams and everything will be fine”.

So, we setup a dyno session. We started from the previous (“precam”) Raychinov tune. The car had less power. Here is the graph:

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Green is“old” 334whp, blue is cams with same tune, red is cams with evolve cam tune. So above 7500 rpm the power is similar, but there is a 20 WHP POWER LOSS ON 7000rpm ! And, 10 to 15 whp less bellow 6000 rpm. Raychinov started working on the tune and after a couple for tunes we reached 340 whp on 8000 rpm, but on 7000 rpm and bellow the power was increased but still was significantly less than before cam swap. Then he asked for AFR readings, and they were all ok, but he cancelled developing the tune saying he is not ready and is not sure what to do next.

The plan was to get prepared for the next dyno session in some time, but that never happened. He was swearing the Siemens MSS70 ECU on Z4M all the time I remember. He gave up to do that job. So, I was left with a slower car and with hesitations under 4k rpm. Splendid! And that was two years ago!

I then asked Evolve for help. They’ve sent me a few test tunes, but all were similar, with similar slower acceleration times than before and with hesitations. I even tried their alpha-n tune from another Z4M with same cams and there was no power difference, but the hesitations were less. And, with that alpha-n map heel-toe rev matching is not possible – what a frustration that was when I found out.

I contacted TTFS, Frank Smith. It was very difficult to reach them.. I got a reply after some time: “.. we don’t have time to work a proper map for the MSS70 platform..”. What a pity.. So, I got stuck

I’ve been recommended to contact a tuner from Germany – MK Motorsport. They are known for serious NA tuning, they have their own developed carbon airbox. If you check their website you will see they have several stages of tuning for Z4M, including “engine kit C” which contains cams and is advertised with 70bhp gains over stock 343. They also have an “engine kit D”, which is like C + headwork and is advertised with 85bhp gains (15bhp gains on headwork!). So they must know there business. I expressed my concerns due to what I went through, and they consider that job as a “piece of cake”. Finally I bought their map.

And, really, hick-ups were gone. But… what really happens is that a power limit occurs if pushing the throttle beyond a certain point, but that power limit is gentle and smooth. After 5000 rpm I can feel the power is far less. At one point I was driving full throttle on 7000 rpm in 5th gear and when I lift the throttle a short lasting burst of acceleration occurred. After that I was experimenting with throttle positions and the car runs faster if 70% - 90% is applied, with best results when lowering the throttle slowly. Dyno showed the truth:

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So, a 50whp peak power drop! I am waiting for the next map. Or next step. I asked for a remote dyno session. We’ll see.

At this moment while I am waiting and don’t sense any eagerness from MK and I am stuck. And worried. Is there anybody out there who went through similar issues and that can give me some advice? Does anybody know who can do the job? People mention EPIC, Randy, any opinion? Guys, help me.



Ok,there is a spare option. In fact, that is the best option, though it is costly. A stand-alone. Plug and play, keeping the stock harness. Emtron KV8. Map sensor. Far, far easier to tune and potential for some additional benefits. I have a friend who does the job. They already did an E30 S54, as well as a E36 S54. They get 2-3 hp on max revs when they open idle valve LOL! They can add DCT from E82 135i or E9x 335i or E9x M3 with adapter plate. Going to do that one day for sure! For track, with DCT is easier to focus on braking and corner entry than with manual.

With Emtron KV8, in the future when I decide to go for a carbon airbox – tuning will be easy and heal-toe possible. Add some even crazier headers – easy to tune. If I decide to supercharge – again easy… Ok, I will lose DSC, but I always drive it with OFF. It confuses me if it’s on.

But, as I said, quite a lot of cost, just to get a tune. Especially if there is a solution using a stock ECU.

Thanks for reading (who had the nerve… )
Vuki
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      07-08-2020, 08:58 PM   #2
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Thanks a lot for sharing your experience, a lot of great information and details.

I have to say that you probably had already found a sweet spot and in the chase of more power you ended up finding trouble. for the cost of going to a stand-alone ECU I'd rather revert back to stock cams and the tune from your friend, or add the CSL Box and the non-stepped headers with an Alpha-N tune, both of which are tested solutions.

I have a CSL box with EU headers with EPIC's tune and I have no driveability issues (no hesitations and I have a smooth power delivery), I also can do heel and toe. Due to the CSL box mine is an Alpha-N tune.

I was also wondering if any day we will find someone that can really tune the MSS70 ECU, but since our cars are so low volume I understand why tuners have not dedicated time to develop their knowledge in our platform.
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      07-08-2020, 11:07 PM   #3
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Pokeybritches (Josh) is a fantastic tuner that puts a ton of time and research into tuning the MSS70. He does all of my tuning.
Very knowledgeable and great guy! I would contact him directly for any questions regarding our ECU.
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      07-09-2020, 02:07 PM   #4
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Great post.

On my 2006 Z4M Roadster I have an Evolve CSL style intake, SuperSprint v1 Stepped Headers, Stepped Section 1, X-Pipe and SuperSprint Street Mufflers. I have a tune from Randy at EPIC.

I did a pre-upgrade dyno, but have not done a post-upgrade dyno as I still have a "service engine soon" light that I want to address before doing another dyno.

I do not have massive low RPM throttle response issues, but I do detect some flatness down low. I need to do some more track driving to get a better idea of it - I've only had one track day due to COVID.

I will follow and contribute to this thread where possible.
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      07-09-2020, 04:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maupineda View Post
Thanks a lot for sharing your experience, a lot of great information and details.

I have to say that you probably had already found a sweet spot and in the chase of more power you ended up finding trouble. for the cost of going to a stand-alone ECU I'd rather revert back to stock cams and the tune from your friend, or add the CSL Box and the non-stepped headers with an Alpha-N tune, both of which are tested solutions.

I have a CSL box with EU headers with EPIC's tune and I have no driveability issues (no hesitations and I have a smooth power delivery), I also can do heel and toe. Due to the CSL box mine is an Alpha-N tune.

I was also wondering if any day we will find someone that can really tune the MSS70 ECU, but since our cars are so low volume I understand why tuners have not dedicated time to develop their knowledge in our platform.
Hi Maupineda,

Yes I agree, the sweet spot was with stock cams and V1 stepped headers with a tune sorted out. I should've just added a 3.91 diff and it would really be a super sweet spot

To come back to stock cams is one of the options, and then I can put those cams on my M3. I must admit I would like to avoid this option. When driving the Z4M with these cams with lower and medium throttle inputs it is so responsive and eager, it promises so much and shows such potential.. it is such a pity the ECU won't allow full power. I did put the 3.91 diff on my Z4M and trust me, it feels torquey like a big V8 (with moderate driving).

Regarding making mistakes, let me introduce one more that I did. This 3.91 diff - I bought another unit (it is interchangeable with M3), and I bought with a new clutch plate LSD. The LSD is setup to have too much lock. On the track with the TC Kline setup, there was zero under-steer with stock LSD, the front end was amazing, grips and grips. I changed the diff and I got so frustrated with the introduced under-steer, unbelievable! It is with 12 active clutch plates and 40/65 ramping angles. Stock diff is back on the car, so I did a new setting according to advice from the supplier. Now it is set to have 8 active clutch plates (33% less locking "power"), ramping angles the same.. but I would prefer ramping angles with less lock (higher angles, such as 50/65 for instance). Until I sort out the tune I won't be putting back that diff. I want to compare 100-200 km/h acceleration times, step by step - what do cams provide, what does a 3.91 diff provides.

BTW, I measure those times with precise GPS tool and on same roads and similar conditions (temps). Z4M managed 9.8 sec with stock diff and 334whp (stock cams). My M3 E46 does 11 sec with 312whp, my friends stock manual E92 M3 does 10.7 sec. What is interesting here is that when I put 17 inch wheels on M3 (from my E36) which have a 5% smaller diameter, I measured M3 and got 10.5 sec. So, 0.5 seconds less. The diff is shorter 8%, which means that I highly recommend this mod in any case. Needless to say, M3 E92 has a 3.85 diff stock, and a 6th gear which is 0.87.. while on M3 is 0.83 and on Z4M is 0.85. Either way with a 3.91 diff, our cars have the same revs on the highway as does the M3 E92 in stock form.

Another advice regarding the choice of LSD. Our cars are lighter than other M cars. They're not turbo or huge displacement. I have rear tires Toyo R888R 275/35 R18 and an aggressive LSD is not needed. Hell, with such big sticky tires it would run with an open diff LOL I will experiment and share my experience. My driving style is smooth, and I like to manage the rear end while having the front end like a go kart. I am not a fan of trying too hard to keep the front end gripping in order to have huge lock LSD. Probably if I were to have a square setup, the diff "pushing" would cause less problems.. The point is everything affects everything and it should be properly matched, and, according to your taste. Hope this will help
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      07-09-2020, 04:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eggman51 View Post
Great post.

On my 2006 Z4M Roadster I have an Evolve CSL style intake, SuperSprint v1 Stepped Headers, Stepped Section 1, X-Pipe and SuperSprint Street Mufflers. I have a tune from Randy at EPIC.

I did a pre-upgrade dyno, but have not done a post-upgrade dyno as I still have a "service engine soon" light that I want to address before doing another dyno.

I do not have massive low RPM throttle response issues, but I do detect some flatness down low. I need to do some more track driving to get a better idea of it - I've only had one track day due to COVID.

I will follow and contribute to this thread where possible.
Thanks!

The CSL style intake is so addictive and I will be doing it for sure one day. But I do have second thoughts on the Alpha N mapping. I trust it is not "street friendly" as with stock MAF mapping. M3 guys can choose to go for a true M3 CSL ECU setup with MAP sensor, but on Z4M Alpha N is a must.

Here is a qoute from bimmerworld for Epic Alpha N tune:

"Since there is no Lambda-based adaption with Alpha-N it's critical to have the car re-tuned for any major changes to the engine spec. We will re-tune the car once after the initial tune or more often for a nominal fee. You will also want to have the tuning adjusted for a significant change in elevation. You must also ensure the engine is maintained to a very high standard as even things like a clogged air filter will alter performance and drivability. Alpha-N is not recommended for street use unless the engine is heavily modified and you use more than 70% throttle most of the time. Part throttle tuning is not as important in Alpha-N strategy and we mostly focus on full throttle tuning. An HFM-based adaptive tune will be far more compatible for life on the street."

Ok, for my car which is just for fun and track and with WOT there is no issue I suppose with Alpha N.. Perhaps it is OK to sacrifice the daily features in my case.. but I don't think maybe everybody is prepared for that. But just because of that noise it's worth it! Especially roadster
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      07-09-2020, 04:24 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Residentj3553 View Post
Pokeybritches (Josh) is a fantastic tuner that puts a ton of time and research into tuning the MSS70. He does all of my tuning.
Very knowledgeable and great guy! I would contact him directly for any questions regarding our ECU.
Hi!

I am interested. Can you give me some more info? Or send me some links, if there are any reviews on Josh working on Z4Ms with big cams, etc (remember I am new here)..

Practically I need someone to remotely (dyno) tune my car. I would like to gather as much info as I can and then decide what to do.
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      07-09-2020, 05:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voockey View Post
Hi!

I am interested. Can you give me some more info? Or send me some links, if there are any reviews on Josh working on Z4Ms with big cams, etc (remember I am new here)..

Practically I need someone to remotely (dyno) tune my car. I would like to gather as much info as I can and then decide what to do.
I also highly recommend pokeybritches to tune. All be it my car is an M54 it now runs 16# boost, Porsche injectors and Audi RS4 MAF and Josh has it darn close to perfect.

I have no doubts he can get very best out of your setup.
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      07-10-2020, 01:57 AM   #9
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Josh is doing my tune, top notch stand up guy. give him a holler. PM Pokeybritches and say G'day.

Def dont pull the 280/288, works absolutely fine and i love it a lot .

cheers
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      07-10-2020, 03:53 PM   #10
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Thank you guys for advice, I've already sent a message to Josh.
Looking forward for what comes next
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      07-11-2020, 12:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voockey View Post
Thank you guys for advice, I've already sent a message to Josh.
Looking forward for what comes next
Hi Voockey! Feel free to send me a PM and I'll get you set up.
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      01-13-2021, 02:32 AM   #12
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Hi guys! Been a while since Josh and me started our “adventure” of solving the tune for my Z4M with 288 280 cams. Just as a reminder – after having a solid 334whp (dynojet) with SS V1 headers cat-less, was not being able to improve at all and as the last try before joining and posting here ended up with 285whp with the MK Motorsport tune (tuner for Germany).

Tune is not totally done yet but already it’s obvious it’s working great and gains are there! Don’t think it took us all 6 months, many times we had periods of not having time to do anything, especially me after I became a father

First two to three months were the most difficult to get rid of the “limits” which obviously occurred every time I press the throttle more than 60%.. (hesitations, hick-ups, low power). My car has the stock box and MAF, which means that all the stock tune features are there – meaning there are many, many safety features, torque limiters etc. This is NOT an Alpha N tune, this is a MAF based tune which remains adaptive. Speaking with Josh various times I learned how complicated the MSS70 is (much, much more than E46 MSS54) and no wonder nobody had interest to figure it all out, especially because of the low numbers of our cars. We also suffered and lost time trying to get the right logging tool – managed to solve that later in a good enough way. All in all, patience paid off. And Josh is so persistent and full of knowledge. I am happy that my case helped Josh to solve all those limiting features of the MSS70. Once Josh got rid of those limits with one test tune I took a drive and felt that there are no hesitations – you can’t imagine what a difference that was and how nice the car felt. And on the dynojet it showed at once – without any adjusting to new cams the car showed +13whp at some spots in the highest rpm range (compared to stock cam best curve). I was sure of that since my usual testing was highway driving in 5th gear to red line LOL!

After that we went on another very conservative dyno (which was the only one available in late hours due to European time differences) to actually do the tuning for power and we got +15hp peak power over the tune that already showed +13whp over the stock cam best curve. I’ll stop there with the numbers since I still didn’t go back to the dynojet to have the exact comparison before/after! – that is going to be the most interesting part! I won’t do it before we finish the tune completely. At the moment we’re in a phase of finalizing the fuel trims (though for the last 1.5 months I simply had no free time to spare and the weather was shitty). During this month we expect to be done and have the comparison.

What Josh and I will report to our community is only 100% truth. There is no interest in showing better gains than they actually are, there is no interest in any marketing here. I’m saying this because what we expect to get on that final before/after comparison is not as wonderful as I was seeing in some M3 E46 posts. Perhaps I was being influenced, but Josh was aware how will it work. Also my “Emtron stand-alone tuner friends” told me that most of those M3 post results were unrealistic. What I can say now is that the peak power gains are there and the area under the curve is fine but do not expect to be like the ones I used to see on some M3 posts. Here I must also add that engine reliability was most important!!! Since, if a tuner chooses to sacrifice reliability a modest amount of extra power can be gained.

And here I must write this: we are so, so lucky to have Josh! The way he approaches each project is as if it is his own car. Imagine how would you fix a lunch for your own kid – that is how Josh treats tuning cars – with utmost care, taking care of every detail and so much knowledge. From my experience I can say for typical tuners there is simply no commercial sense in having such a detailed and careful approach with so much time invested. That’s why I’ll repeat – so, so lucky! I just remember some situations from before where I ask the tuner what is he doing and get zero answers like he is doing some kind of a spaceship design which I won’t understand and then when Josh tells me how that tune looks like and what’s done – you just end up laughing and realize that you were just one order request which needed to be dealt off pretty quickly so they can move on to the next one. After this experience with Josh there is no way I will give my M3 E46 to anyone for tuning! Except Josh! I plan to persuade him to cover the MSS54 platform also!

So, let us wait for the final results (which will also include 100-200 km/h accel. times vs stock cam times) Then I’ll also write some technical analysis of the results.

Last edited by Voockey; 01-13-2021 at 02:40 AM..
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      01-13-2021, 06:16 AM   #13
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I have also had an excellent experience working with Josh. No one equals his enthusiasm and passion for tuning.

I owe Josh a follow up post on my thread on our tuning day.

I have also been following your tune experience talking with Josh. Am interested in the final outcome as cams could be in my future...
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      01-13-2021, 08:25 AM   #14
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I can also vouch for pokeybritches passion.
My non M is a work in progress and Josh is right there along for the ride.
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      01-16-2021, 09:01 AM   #15
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Interested to see the final results!

Cams are on my list but I am undecided on 288/280 or 280/272. I have heard the 280's are easier to tune and the gains of the 288's might not be worth. Interested to see your final results to hopefully sway me to the 288s.
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      01-16-2021, 04:06 PM   #16
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Josh and I have a clue how will the curve look when I get back on the dynojet (where I have the stock cam run), but it is still just a clue, not precise enough to give claims right now. Above 6500rpm there is no doubt – just on a test tune it showed +13whp on 7500 rpm before actual tuning.. As mentioned, then we got +15hp on the other dyno in that same rpm range.. we’ll see if we manage a bit more.

S54 is known to have one of the highest Nm/l figures for NA engines. With 114Nm/l (in CSL trim) it was no.1 for a long time, until Ferrari 458, 997 GT3RS 4.0 and Co showed up. Now let us bear that in mind. S54 has nearly max torque in the 4500 to 6000 rpm range. Is it realistic now to expect gains in that range which are comparable (in %) to gains in the highest rpm range? Are stock cams good enough for that range? Well, I think I can already say that we don’t expect much in this range. Some M3 posts used to show dyno graphs where starting from 2500rpm the power is gradually and linearly increasing, more revs, more gains – not sure it works that way. If you check my first post, max torque went from bone stock of 334 wNm to 338 wNm by adding stepped headers, race mufflers, de-cat, pulleys, optimized tune – that is 4wNm which is only +1.2%.

Bellow 4500rpm on the other dyno we got plenty of improvement over the test tune, we’ll see how will it look on the dynojet. We expect to have more power/torque than with stock cams bellow 4500rpm (but above 2000rpm).

Regarding bellow 2000rpm – there is no question – “cammed” S54 feels noticeably more dead than it is in stock form.. Stock S54 is driveable under 2000rpm, but “cammed” not nearly as much – but who cares? - I never drive my stock cam M3 E46 bellow 2000rpm (except in 1st gear), we all know what a jump in power comes after 2000rpm.

So to conclude 288/280 vs 280/272 vs stock (260/260):
-above 6500 – gains YES! – more “cam” more gains (expected)
-bellow 2000 – losses YES! – more “cam” more losses (also expected)
- 4500 to 6000 – hard to tell before the end results – if 288/280 cams are similar to stock then I wouldn’t expect much different from 280/272 – or am I mistaken?
- 2000 to 4500 – expecting 288/280 to have more than stock, but not sure where would the 280/272 would fit – perhaps in between?

Vanos plays a big role. It is not that simple as it was with S38 and S14. In a scenario where all cams are similar in the mid-range, I would rather choose the 288/280 because of the high rpm power and lose more bellow 2000. Though I think it is a small difference in any case. Idle is louder with 288/280, but I suspect it would be also with 280/272. Perhaps cam followers can remain stock (existing) with 280/272 cams – which is an advantage of cost saving and less work.

Regarding tuning, if it’s Alpha N then I suppose there is more work with 288/280 than with 280/272. But if you have Josh – that is not an issue. If you retain MAF and have Josh – then you are great in any case!

If we’re talking about a built engine, than it is good to “match” the CR and chosen cams. Dynamic compression is affected by CR, cam choice and vanos settings. Will come back to this after the final results.
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      04-28-2021, 02:27 PM   #17
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I just stumbled upon this thread and I’m glad I did! I have 288/280 cams that I’ll be putting in my car within the next few weeks and tuning was something that I was still kind of scratching my head over as to which one to go with. I’m glad you had such a good experience with Josh. Looks like I’ll be going with him! Also, our cars will be similarly modified so hopefully some of the lessons learned with your tuning can be carried right over.
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      04-28-2021, 03:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfjaws View Post
I just stumbled upon this thread and I’m glad I did! I have 288/280 cams that I’ll be putting in my car within the next few weeks and tuning was something that I was still kind of scratching my head over as to which one to go with. I’m glad you had such a good experience with Josh. Looks like I’ll be going with him! Also, our cars will be similarly modified so hopefully some of the lessons learned with your tuning can be carried right over.
You cannot go wrong with Josh.

Follow him on social media.
Here's his latest achievement. Impressive.

https://www.facebook.com/11460346027...1086285963172/

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      04-29-2021, 10:01 AM   #19
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I’ve been following his Facebook page for awhile now. He has some really impressive cars on there!
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      05-04-2021, 06:26 AM   #20
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It has been a while. Unfortunately the last two months we’ve done nothing which is my fault due to having a “covid situation” at work (been doing 2 and ½ jobs..). But, the good news is that we plan to proceed just now in May. I really miss the Zed

Last time we were tweaking the 3000 rpm range for what a dyno was not necessary. Looking forward to finally visit the dynojet (where I have the stock cam run) to verify the expected gains mentioned in my previous posts (15hp over +13whp) and then we’ll continue from there since according to the logs there is some juice left in the red-line range.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dfjaws View Post
I just stumbled upon this thread and I’m glad I did! I have 288/280 cams that I’ll be putting in my car within the next few weeks and tuning was something that I was still kind of scratching my head over as to which one to go with. I’m glad you had such a good experience with Josh. Looks like I’ll be going with him! Also, our cars will be similarly modified so hopefully some of the lessons learned with your tuning can be carried right over.
Very glad to read this! There is no doubt – we will be helping each other! Josh is great great! - and always ready to explore further and I am so glad to be a part of it.
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      05-04-2021, 07:01 AM   #21
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288/280 is fine, no issues. Josh will help you out a lot. Top notch bloke.
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