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      03-14-2011, 08:20 PM   #45
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This dyno was done last summer 94F with stock headers and 93-109 mix.....notice how timing is being pulled back at 7600rpm's! with water/meth sprayed 6" post intercooler this timing pull back won't happen. So imagine where the numbers would be and that isn't including the higher oxygen for cool air. Throw on another 20+ for the headers and I think we are getting close to 480whp in the heat of the worst summer Big winter horse power with sticky summer drag radials this will be very noticeable!
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      03-16-2011, 09:49 PM   #46
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update... water/meth install scheduled for 3/22 and dyno for 3/23. water/meth tank will be the oem washer fluid tank to keep a clean install.
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      03-16-2011, 10:02 PM   #47
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can't wait to see the results
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      03-16-2011, 10:09 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fr8tdog View Post
update... water/meth install scheduled for 3/22 and dyno for 3/23. water/meth tank will be the oem washer fluid tank to keep a clean install.
Good idea, looking forward to more dyno runs.
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      03-16-2011, 10:16 PM   #49
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Thanks, but i'm not expecting anything major because of the cool temps we have. Summer is when this kit will truly shine. I'm still expecting something reasonable and I think the DME will still add timing because of the higher effective octane. If I remember correctly, Roman told me that the ESS tune will adjust up to about 98 octane.
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      03-16-2011, 10:44 PM   #50
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how much torque does the car put down stock? 300rwtq doesn't sound high for a kit, although I've never driven an ess stage 2 z4m
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      03-17-2011, 09:53 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roffle Waffle View Post
how much torque does the car put down stock? 300rwtq doesn't sound high for a kit, although I've never driven an ess stage 2 z4m
That's a good question. The devil is in the details with this one The stock tq is already weak for the Z4 M and the stock tq at max RPM is just down right terrible. This means that the tq drops off drastically from a peak of about 230-240 depending on car at 5500rpm to about 175-180 tq at 8200rpm. This why many people complain that the car seems to give up the ghost at 7000rpm. With the ESS VT2-500 the tq maxes at 300+ at 5500rpm and continues or holds that tq to redline. You feel a constant and strong pull right to redline and in fact it's very easy to bounce the rev limiter if you're not paying attention. With headers and water/meth my tq should be closer to 330-340 (which means my tq will be double the stock tq at redline!!!) climbing all the way to redline which is a hard pull. I included a stock Z4 M dyno and my Dyno from last summer. Keep in mind my car would probably dyno more like 475-480 in 45f temps with stock headers. Compare the two tq curves and notice how drastically the stock curve falls off...this equates to weak pulling car as opposed to a constant(flat line or slight rise) tq curve with FI. Cheers

One extra note:: on my dyno notice the tq drop at 7600-7700...this is from heat soak and timing being pulled, it was 94 F. With water/meth this would not happen and would likely still be rising to about 310-320 tq. This is why I feel every FI application should have water/meth.
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      03-17-2011, 10:08 AM   #52
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yeah, that does sound good. BUT, can you imagine if it was a twinscrew setup with some whine to it? That would be in a perfect world =)
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      03-17-2011, 10:09 AM   #53
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im basically trying to convince myself that I DON"T NEED this thing asap, and need to invest my money better. hahaha. don't take it as me putting down the kit
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      03-17-2011, 10:27 AM   #54
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Don't have to explain that one. You're talking to a guy that was trying to sell this thing not to long ago
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      03-17-2011, 11:02 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fr8tdog View Post
Thanks, but i'm not expecting anything major because of the cool temps we have. Summer is when this kit will truly shine. I'm still expecting something reasonable and I think the DME will still add timing because of the higher effective octane. If I remember correctly, Roman told me that the ESS tune will adjust up to about 98 octane.
are you talking about the normal tune, not a race gas tune? when i send in my results for the handheld, i want to get a 93 oct tune. at most i will do a 50/50 mix of 100 and 93. which is well under 98. will my tune adjust to the added octane without a seperate race gas tune?
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      03-17-2011, 03:43 PM   #56
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I think it was regarding my VT2-500 tune, but I'm not sure. Would have to call Roman on this one.
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      03-18-2011, 12:03 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4Murder View Post
are you talking about the normal tune, not a race gas tune? when i send in my results for the handheld, i want to get a 93 oct tune. at most i will do a 50/50 mix of 100 and 93. which is well under 98. will my tune adjust to the added octane without a seperate race gas tune?
I just read this again and need to clarify something.... This is not a race gas tune that allows the DME to adjust timing up to about 98 octane. Im just not sure if it only apply's to my VT2-500 tune or any ESS tune. This would need to be verified with Roman. Cheers
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      03-20-2011, 12:46 PM   #58
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Temps today are around 80F and I can tell the car is losing power (butt dyno)...timing being pulled. My water/meth kit goes in on Tuesday, so this should be very telling!
I suspect we should see nice improvements.... will post dyno rsults. Cheers
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      03-22-2011, 08:55 AM   #59
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thansk for all the updates. its exciting to see progress on big power z4m's since there is so few of them
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      03-22-2011, 11:49 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4Murder View Post
thansk for all the updates. its exciting to see progress on big power z4m's since there is so few of them

Thanks.... yea I think I will be close to 500whp SAE with the headers and water/meth. The install goes in tomorrow and Dyno is set for the 24th. I'm going to guess 93 octane+water/meth+headers will yield somewhere between 480-500whp SAE at 8-8.5 psi boost. VT3 is going to be around 580whp, but with the water/meth I'm confident I can hit 600whp
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      03-22-2011, 01:31 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fr8tdog View Post
Thanks.... yea I think I will be close to 500whp SAE with the headers and water/meth. The install goes in tomorrow and Dyno is set for the 24th. I'm going to guess 93 octane+water/meth+headers will yield somewhere between 480-500whp SAE at 8-8.5 psi boost. VT3 is going to be around 580whp, but with the water/meth I'm confident I can hit 600whp
insane! that's going to be a monster. i'd like to end up somewhere around the vt500 kit, by the time im ready to do that, im hoping there may be a couple other options on the market as well. probably next year.
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      03-22-2011, 03:32 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4Murder View Post
insane! that's going to be a monster. i'd like to end up somewhere around the vt500 kit, by the time im ready to do that, im hoping there may be a couple other options on the market as well. probably next year.

I think with AA stepping into the game this is a very good sign! I'm betting there will be some turbo options for us in the next year or two as well. You will definitely have more options in a year
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      03-30-2011, 05:49 AM   #63
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my car has been on the dyno for a couple of days now with some stumbling blocks. My dyno last summer with the smaller pulley was with MS109 race gas. Apparently the smaller pulley I had was making to much boost for 93 octane in order to make a nice smooth power curve. The tq numbers and power are very impressive until 6000rpm which is peak tq as high as 320 and then the power falls off with a shit load of timing being pulled. The ecu starts adding timing back in but the car only recovers back to 400-405 whp. So you get a pop of tq to 6000rpm(which feels good on the street) and then timing gets yanked out for a top end power sacrifice. I put the original 7psi pulley back in and reset ecu adaptations yesterday and the power curve returned to a smooth line up to 408whp without water/meth, but this comes with a compromise to tq. The water/meth system is working great and we didn't have time to use it with the 7psi pulley, but holly shit with the 8-9 psi pulley the water/meth tq was F'n unreal!. The problem is this causes the ecu to say"nope! that's all you get son" and pulls timing at 6000rpm for top end power loss. The only way around this is to either run at least 100 octane, straight meth, or drop compression with new internals to keep the curve smooth and avoid timing retard. With the 50/50 water/meth and largest spray nozzle the octane doesn't increase enough to prevent timing retard, but it definitely! and I mean definitely cools the air intake charge.


I'm doing another dyno this morning with the original 7psi pulley and water/meth to see if we cant pick up another 40 or 50 hp with a smooth power curve. I will post up pictures of the install later today and will include dyno graphs. When this tank of 93 octane is empty I will do another dyno with race gas and water/meth with 8-9 psi pulley and see what numbers can be had. Should be fun...enjoy
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      03-30-2011, 07:00 PM   #64
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Finished the dyno work today with the original 7 psi pulley after ECU adaptations were cleared and water/meth 50/50 mix. This has been a very educational experience for me regarding this ESS kit and it's true limitations. Long story short... if you want 475whp with VT2-500 you will need catless headers,8-9psi pulley, water/meth and oxygenated MS109 race fuel at a minimum and possibly a revision to the tune. My AFR's were running a tad lean above 7500rpm, so I might need a new fuel filter or pump.. not sure yet.

I made more whp on my 7psi pulley than i did on my 8-9ish psi pulley. What happens is the torque is so sweet on the higher boost up to about 6000rpm and then timing just gets yanked out by ecu and your hp nose dives and then the ecu starts adding timing back in slowly and you only get 400whp at max rpm. With MS109 race fuel this doesn't happen. Water/meth at 50/50 made no impact at relieving this problem....in fact it just ramped up the tq even more because of the cool air charge...tq was great below 6000, but then falls and slowly rises. If I had Ms109 and water/meth together I would probably see 450 easy on stock headers and maybe more...thats another day. The good news is that my baseline dyno after many runs and a warm engine looked good with 7 psi pulley and water/meth. We did back to back for a good comparison of water/meth no water/meth and we tried many different variations of nozzle size and progression rate. As "Tone" (this is his name) at Renn-spec in Los Angeles informed me...use the smallest nozzle and start spray at 2psi and stop at 6. He was right on the money with this advise. We went from 408whp 296TQ 7psi pulley no water/meth to 420+whp 311TQ on a low 40'sF morning. This spread will look more impressive in the summer as the heat gets worse the water/meth will excel. I still think I have a fuel delivery issue up top because of filter or pump, but I was happy with the results. I was using 93 octane, 7psi boost, 50/50 water meth smallest nozzle to achieve these results. If I find that I have a fuel issue I will post this info on this thread. My SS V2 step headers should be in soon and I will get a new dyno with these baseline no water/meth, with water meth, and with race fuel. This should be educational. I'm replacing my fuel filter in the next couple of days. I will have dyno sheets tomorrow when I get my car. In the mean time enjoy the pictures of intercooler piping and water/meth nozzle install. The nozzle has a bung that was beautifully welded into the pipe. I used the washer fluid tank for my water/meth and I have a power switch and controller in the glove box for operating my water/meth system. Cheers
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      03-30-2011, 08:22 PM   #65
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I'm guessing your stock headers are bottlenecking your top end, just as you are
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      03-30-2011, 08:23 PM   #66
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so the meth was good for 12rwhp at 40* temps?
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