FI options for Z4M: VT2-500 with water injection, other kits?

[iPhoneEngineer]

After about a year and a half with my 2007 Z4MC, I've started to seek more power. The ESS N/A tune and RPi intake scoop were definitely worthwhile, but at the headers vs forced induction juncture, I've decided to go FI.

1) Are there any solidly engineered FI kits for the Z4M besides the current ESS VT offerings? I've heard rumblings about a HPF turbo kit, but also a lot of skepticism about running a turbo on stock S54 internals.
2) Who is running water/meth injection on S54, particularly with the VT2-500?

I'm ignoring the VT1-445 because I just can't trust a non-intercooled FI setup, and would rather run a lower PSI pulley on the VT2-500 that has both the intercooler and enlarged oil cooler. Despite the intercooler, however, we're still talking about ~7-8PSI of hotter-than-usual charge being crammed into an 11.5:1 engine, which I can't imagine has any substantial margin of safety on 91 octane. In particular, I'm sure the knock detection system would be getting a workout, and these incidental bouts of knocking will add up over time. So, I'm quite interested in adding water/meth injection (without making the tune specifically more aggressive).

The most informative thread I've found on the subject is here: http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthre...=491054&page=5

[SYT_Shadow]

I wouldn't do any kit other than the ESS one, but that's just me.

Forget about HPF. They've blown too many engines to be trusted.

Someone named Tonester is running a VT2 500 with meth on a E46M. He's over at e46f.c site.

[Beedub]

AJ builds these tunes with massive safety margin, i absolutly promise ESS would simply not release a kit that has even the slightest of chance of being troublesome for them.......... they simply would not sell the kit.

The vt kits for the s54 engined cars have been tried and tested with serious punishment, they run these cars without coolers in desert conditions just to see the effect on the Aits and engines, Ess do proper research and developement.....

Drop Ess em email and get the low down and you will get all your questions answered and more.....

BTW the vt1-445 is a fabulous kit...... one of our texas members runs that kit in the most extreme circumstances that you could run and car........ and he's getting consistant safe running of his car.... i orginally had the vt1 and then moved to the vt2-500kit as i wanted more consistant power, i know have a car that can take on supercars.

check out my threads below for some detailed images of my kit.... its over engineered which is what i like.... intercooler flows 700bhp.... vortech v3 si Trim has 1150CFM, again can make 775hp @25psi, @ 78% efficiency...... This kit is awesome.... no other way to put it....

throw ess's legendary customer service and you cant fail.

[iPhoneEngineer]

Originally Posted by Beedub

[...] check out my threads below for some detailed images of my kit...

Beedub! Thanks so much for all the information you've contributed back to the community about your car and experience with the ESS kits. Your threads across forums are popular amongst my Google queries

OK, VT2-500 it is...though I'm still interested in water/meth injection, I suppose I'll hold off until the kit worth 1/3rd the value of the car is installed!

Given ESS's reputation (solid, I agree, despite the rational concern over boosting a high-compression motor), do you think a wideband probe is essential?

I've been to Laguna Seca twice, and will probably see a track 2-3 times a year...though with this kit I don't think I will be sustaining greater 6.5k RPM, and definitely will run 100 octane. My daily commute involves 2000ft of altitude change (near sea level to 2,200ft) and a quite rigorous mountain road, so that scenario alone may warrant monitoring...though I'm hoping I can safely get away without it until I have the water/meth, and can really breathe easy about avoiding detonation.

For those who have driven both the VT1-445 and VT2-500, do you have any comments on the difference? Is the decreased throttle response from the intercooler annoying at times? Do you wish you had gone with the VT2 from the start or did you enjoy experiencing the car's different stages of performance?

[pokeybritches]

I wouldn't say it's headers vs forced induction... more like headers AND forced induction. Catless headers will cut down on underhood temps and make the engine breathe better, whether you stay NA or go FI. It only becomes an "or" if finances are an issue and you can't afford to do both. ESS require catless headers in some of their higher hp applications.

There's a thread on M3forum in which a Supersprint rep shows some dynos of their systems. V1 step headers with race cats made more than 20 hp over a stock Euro system. Gains on a US-spec model should be over 30 hp because our primary cats are in the headers. On a car with FI, you'll see higher gains because of the greater exhaust flow. Plus, underhood temps will go down.

If it was me, I'd throw on some V2 (standard) headers or V2 step headers and relocate my secondary O2 sensors to avoid a SES. THEN I would go FI.

[iPhoneEngineer]

Originally Posted by pokeybritches

I wouldn't say it's headers vs forced induction... more like headers AND forced induction.

Great point...this is what I want, though I have run into issues finding good headers that ESS won't refuse to support with their software (Supersprint is not supported). I was planning on solving this later especially if I see temps that are too high, though since I don't intend to do heavy track work, superheating of the cats might not be as much of a risk for me as some others.

I've pulled this important (for me) discussion into a new thread: http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9802497

[Beedub]

iphone...... imo wideband is ESSENTIAL...... your concerns re the high compression are definatly founded and one that i was very worried about....... honestly, vt1 had absolutly no throttle lag at all, if anything the super short charge pipework meant just instant power...... i can simply not recommend vt1 enough.... im actually glad i did vt1 for a year then upgraded, vt2 puts this car into a different league, and i love the the cooling additions.....

BTW vt1 never made my oiltemps high, vt2 runs cooler than stock, mpg is better than stock with both kits off boost.

again checkout my gauge solution, i used stack pro step range, insanely expensive but well worth the accuracy and the look in the inside of the car, the 3d design pod was specially imported from japan, again at massive cost... very very pleased with the outcome.

iphone any questions, shoot me a pm, ive gone through this kit from vt1 to vt2 with minute detail, every part thoroughly inspected and in some cases modded for the perfect fitment... i simply will not install any part on my car that doesnt perform and look like it was always their...... i expect nothing less.

just one thing... prepare to need a BBK, this kit will kill your stock brakes in no time, vt1 or vt2.

imo you should go vt1.... and see how you feel, its a very good kit and VERY upgradeable......... shoot AJ an email and tell him weve spoken and you want to know some info Re the tune ect ect, his knowledge will blow you away.

BTW Ess also now have a flash loader which will allow you to data-log, knock log, keep 10 different tunes, valet modes..... you name it, we got it..... like our very own Cobb AP.
The s54 just LOVes boost....... imo i totally agree with the HPF summary, too many blown engines, and the power delivery just simply wouldnt suit the z4m..... The vt1/2 just basically feels like a engine swap to a bigger CC.

Also another note the big centri we use is so easy on the drive train/engine i feel much more confortable, hell im getting 1 psi per 1k rpms, no mad torque unload just a power line thats a good few knotches above stock, it feels like we put the s65 v8 under the bonnet..... as you can tell, im very pleased with my kit....
ontop on everything, the engine bay is now a work of art.

[iPhoneEngineer]

So, I ordered the VT2-500 this morning. I'll be getting it installed ASAP; having the kit sent directly to Alekshop in Pleasanton.

Despite ESS' reputation, the performance increase of the kit is so substantial, I'll definitely need a way to monitor detected knock or have water/meth injection to be pretty much certain it is avoided.

I do have the Direct Flash unit, but didn't realize it could be used to log things like knock...I have an OBD-II WiFi interface as well, so I wonder if Rev can do that. Since I won't have a wideband or water/meth right after the installation, that would be a perfect interim monitoring solution.

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by iPhoneEngineer

So, I ordered the VT2-500 this morning. I'll be getting it installed ASAP; having the kit sent directly to Alekshop in Pleasanton.

Despite ESS' reputation, the performance increase of the kit is so substantial, I'll definitely need a way to monitor detected knock or have water/meth injection to be pretty much certain it is avoided.

I do have the Direct Flash unit, but didn't realize it could be used to log things like knock...I have an OBD-II WiFi interface as well, so I wonder if Rev can do that. Since I won't have a wideband or water/meth right after the installation, that would be a perfect interim monitoring solution.

absolutly...... imo running a proper set of gauges is essential with this engine on boost, i went for oil pressure, boost, Wideband AFR

[Z4-VILLA]

this is a healthy thread

[Beedub]

arhh man i hate the long wait for shipping and install time.... then youve got the usual things go wrong down time!! But its well worth it....

if i can tell some things to make your life easier to stop any downtime its this!!!

tel you shop to be VERY VERY VERY careful when installed the pulley, a simple pulley change if not done 110% correct will damage the s/c unit!!! trust me i know!! Luvkily i was ocvered under my ESS warranty and used an ess approved installer, know, again not a massive issue that was sorted quickly but id definatly like to save you the hasstle.

This one is the biggy!! the oil cooler lines have small o rings...... i will 10000% tell you these will rip once you take out the stock oil cooler, for the sake of 2 o-rings buy 2 new ones for the shop to install with the kit, the are like $5 each!!! an absolute no brainer....

make sure your happy with the belt tension as it WILL slip if its not bang on, my pulley is an 7.5-8psi pulley, so hopefully you'll see the same as you'll gain good power... AFRs should be 12.5ish : redline, the higher gears will see a rich 11.9ish figure!!

make sure your shop drain off the s/c unit it WILL be overfilled from vortech, if you run it over filled it will blow the internal seal.

keep on eye on the road hose the relocated powersteering tank bracket can get very close once that pip has expanded with heat, i used a pipe protector just in case :-)

your oil temps will now be lower than stock, oil pressure gauge is helpful, i saw low oil pressur before i even released i had a leak :-)

[Beedub]

excuse my grammer im typing with my 12 day old boy in my arms :-)

[ZStig]

Originally Posted by Beedub

excuse my grammer im typing with my 12 day old boy in my arms :-)

hope thats YOUR 12 day old boy

[Beedub]

lol :-) hes gorgeous, my first son, my first baby.... i cant stop looking at him, ive just created the worlds youngest pistonhead!!! He experienced boost @ 3 days old on the way home in my TT RS, lol!!

[ZStig]

you have a TT RS AND a z4m, AND a kid? thats awesome

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by Roffle Waffle

you have a TT RS AND a z4m, AND a kid? thats awesome

its my daily hack!!! lol my z4m is my pride and joy, it only see's warm dry weather use!!

just pulled the trigger on this



Really glad to loose some of that extra heat under the bonnet :-)
Every s/c car should have one. this will be painted ti silver as per my car leaving the vents black.

[SCHMOUPE]

Originally Posted by Beedub

lol :-) hes gorgeous, my first son, my first baby.... i cant stop looking at him, ive just created the worlds youngest pistonhead!!! He experienced boost @ 3 days old on the way home in my TT RS, lol!!

in unrelated news, Audi is going to start shipping TTRS's to US end of this year.

[ZStig]

ahh yes, the coveted Varis hood

[iPhoneEngineer]

Originally Posted by Beedub

lol :-) hes gorgeous, my first son, my first baby.... i cant stop looking at him, ive just created the worlds youngest pistonhead!!! He experienced boost @ 3 days old on the way home in my TT RS, lol!!

Congratulations, that is so awesome!!! I look forward to your review on the new hood; I'm tempted.

About the O-rings...ESS doesn't include new ones with the new oil cooler?! Where can I find the right size? Definitely want to have them ready for the shop.

Fortunately Alekshop is an ESS "Dealer" listed on esstuning.com, so I should have full warranty coverage with their installation. I was tempted to get a lower pressure pulley to put on at times I didn't want to push the car as hard, but after your warning I think I'll stick with the standard ~7-8PSI one for a while!

"keep on eye on the road hose [...]" -> What is this?

Thanks so much for pointing out these specific pitfalls...even though Alekshop is great, it's worth making sure their protocol includes handling some lesser known issues.

[esqu1re]

Originally Posted by Beedub

its my daily hack!!! lol my z4m is my pride and joy, it only see's warm dry weather use!!

just pulled the trigger on this



Really glad to loose some of that extra heat under the bonnet :-)
Every s/c car should have one. this will be painted ti silver as per my car leaving the vents black.

So much win in this post.

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by shakib

in unrelated news, Audi is going to start shipping TTRS's to US end of this year.

ow man i think my post was slightly misleading, my TT rs is the limited edition mk1 version that we got over here in the uk..... still a great Daily drive,

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by iPhoneEngineer

Congratulations, that is so awesome!!! I look forward to your review on the new hood; I'm tempted.

About the O-rings...ESS doesn't include new ones with the new oil cooler?! Where can I find the right size? Definitely want to have them ready for the shop.

Fortunately Alekshop is an ESS "Dealer" listed on esstuning.com, so I should have full warranty coverage with their installation. I was tempted to get a lower pressure pulley to put on at times I didn't want to push the car as hard, but after your warning I think I'll stick with the standard ~7-8PSI one for a while!

"keep on eye on the road hose [...]" -> What is this?

Thanks so much for pointing out these specific pitfalls...even though Alekshop is great, it's worth making sure their protocol includes handling some lesser known issues.

the part number for the orings is 17222245358 you need to order two and no the kit doesnt come with new orings, it relies on the old ones being in good condition, they current ones will be flat and need renewing, as i found out the hardway!!! if you do nothing else, make sure order these otherwise you WILL get an oil leak, plus imo they need to be exchanged everytime the line is loosened....

also as the oil cooler unit is mounted upside down you'll ALWAYS get a high engine oil reading as all the oil drains back into the engine!! lol, you have to be very quick to check engine oil to get a good reading, its quite difficult to get an accurate reading.......

do not change your pulley to a lower psi, trust me their is more than enough revs without building boost to keep a completly tractable and nice drive/ecomical drive....