Sound Deaden Z4M Roadster

[donoman]

I've sound deadened a roadster before (Miata) and it helped with road noise a little. On top of that, it helped the audio quality of the stereo so that I didn't have to blast it so loud. I just bought some insulation from RaamAudio. I've been dealing with them for years.

Most of the noise seems to come from the rear of the car. I'll insulate my doors and the rear firewall. I can tell the noise is coming from the rear particularly in the rain.

[gtMc]

Originally Posted by beta

Would seem that the biggest wins would be adding a bit of sound dampening to the doors (see ron stygar's link here) and maybe some to the trunk; since I think both of these sites have none by default. Ron commented that it gets rid of a lot of the road noise.

^ Beta or anyone, did you ever end up accomplishing this in the doors? Both areas seem to make a lot of sense as bieng effective in noise reduction.

Originally Posted by ZStig

you could also sound deaden the wheel wells

^ This could clearly be a huge help, but is this really feasible? I envision a staple gun and then hanging insulation on the inside of a wheelwell. haha

Originally Posted by donoman

Most of the noise seems to come from the rear of the car. I'll insulate my doors and the rear firewall. I can tell the noise is coming from the rear particularly in the rain.

^ keep us posted!

I added the Mich PSS tires recently and they are certianly quiter. Frankly, getting rid of some road/tire noise would help enhance the sounds of the car you really want to hear more (Like the S54!). Doesnt need to be as quiet as a 5 series... and I dont care about adding 10lbs.

[donoman]

Last night it rained and I could hear a lotta road noise coming from the parcel shelf area. I'll check it out.

[antennahead]

Originally Posted by donoman

Last night it rained and I could hear a lotta road noise coming from the parcel shelf area. I'll check it out.

Sit in the passenger seat with the top up looking to the back of the car. Between the rollbar and the inside roof liner you can see straight down above the rear fender/wheel well area. You can even get your hand down in there ....... it collects dirt, I have reached in there many a time to clean it out. There is a plastic cover there that is to the right and left of the parcel shelf, if you were looking at this from the back of the car facing the trunk. Under this plastic piece is open air above the plastic wheel well cover, I believe. This is where all the tire/road noise, the sound of the tires rolling on the pavement is coming from .................... at least that's my opinion on the noise. Check it out and tell me if you agree with this assessment.

John

[beta]

Originally Posted by gtMc

^ Beta or anyone, did you ever end up accomplishing this in the doors? Both areas seem to make a lot of sense as bieng effective in noise reduction.

I'm waiting to see if the carbon fiber doors happen. I think there's lots of great ideas here, but I want to start with the doors to add as little weight as possible, then go from there.

[donoman]

Originally Posted by antennahead

Sit in the passenger seat with the top up looking to the back of the car. Between the rollbar and the inside roof liner you can see straight down above the rear fender/wheel well area. You can even get your hand down in there ....... it collects dirt, I have reached in there many a time to clean it out. There is a plastic cover there that is to the right and left of the parcel shelf, if you were looking at this from the back of the car facing the trunk. Under this plastic piece is open air above the plastic wheel well cover, I believe. This is where all the tire/road noise, the sound of the tires rolling on the pavement is coming from .................... at least that's my opinion on the noise. Check it out and tell me if you agree with this assessment.

John

I totally agree. I only had time to deaden the doors the weekend but ill strip the trunk soon enough and hunt for noise monsters!!!

[antennahead]

Originally Posted by donoman

I totally agree. I only had time to deaden the doors the weekend but ill strip the trunk soon enough and hunt for noise monsters!!!

I did another layer of foam (dynamat closed cell foam) inside my doors and it helped some, made the stereo fight less against noise coming through the door and the weight of that stuff is negligible. I'm afraid to kill the sound of the rear tires on the pavement we'd need to remove the rear fender liners, and either barrier the back side of the liner, or the under side of that plastic piece next to the parcel shelf. Closed cell foam is light though, so at least it's having pretty much no impact on performance.

John

[beta]

Originally Posted by antennahead

remove the rear fender liners, and either barrier the back side of the liner

That sounds really promising. If anyone does it and it helps, please post pictures of the process.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by Z4-Villa-Renovatio

i would go with Dynamat

LOL who is this? Villa Part Deux!?

[elerner61]

Originally Posted by Twisted Six

When restoring my 240-Z I used 3 rolls of Dynamat against the sheet-metal in the entire car. That included inside the door cans, upper and lower roof, B-pillars,quarter panels and fender arches in the rear. I also did the inner walls of the hatch as well as outside the car just above the muffler and exhaust tubing under the car.

That's because the Z's sheet metal is the thickness of tissue paper!

My Dad and I had a bunch of Z's and ZX's. I still love the look and the sound of that straight six. Slap an Ansa dual vertical tip on one and you've got heaven.

[gtMc]

Originally Posted by antennahead

I did another layer of foam (dynamat closed cell foam) inside my doors and it helped some

John, when you did this, is it a real challenge to pull the doors apart? to do this right, is it possible for a novice like myself to pull it off, or am I just better off taking it to someone. And by someone, I am thinking the best body shop I can find/trust?

[Twisted Six]

Originally Posted by elerner61

That's because the Z's sheet metal is the thickness of tissue paper!

My Dad and I had a bunch of Z's and ZX's. I still love the look and the sound of that straight six. Slap an Ansa dual vertical tip on one and you've got heaven.

I too thought thin for its day... But BMW sheet metal is way flimsier . I can push down on my Z4 fender top or roof and it flexes inward much easier than my Datsun. They are side by side here to check.( could be the datto has more body filler too.
If I ever cut into my spare Z4 parts to modify, I'll micrometer it so we'll know.

[elerner61]

Originally Posted by Twisted Six

I too thought thin for its day... But BMW sheet metal is way flimsier .

Wow, maybe it's just my memory that is thin . I actually think the sheet metal/paint quality on my Z is pretty hefty. Certainly scads better then that on a 2010 Acura TSX we have. The paint is so suspect on the TSX that if someone told me they paint them in a 100ft long spray booth that the cars are driven slowly through I wouldn't totally doubt it.

[bucko521]

Originally Posted by GaryRudolph

Anyone go through the trouble of sound deadening a Z4M roadster? At a minimum I'm considering doing the trunk with Dynamat Xtreme or SecondSkin Pro.

I'm just tired of the road noise and from what I can tell most of the road noise is coming from the rear tires.

Any experience?

Is this for your 2012 Z4 sDrive35is, or do you have another Z4M? Seems that if you have the 2012 car, there is not much more you can do other than change tires as others have suggested.

The trunk area of the 2012 is rather packed with sound deadening already.

[Sprint57]

Bought a 03 Z4 3.0 in Jan have driven a few times and it seemed noisy from behind the seats. Bought a $4 bath towel folded in half and laid it on the package tray behind the seats. Seems to be quieter, but will have to remove before lowering top!

[intocars]

Originally Posted by Twisted Six

When restoring my 240-Z I used 3 rolls of Dynamat against the sheet-metal in the entire car. That included inside the door cans, upper and lower roof, B-pillars,quarter panels and fender arches in the rear. I also did the inner walls of the hatch as well as outside the car just above the muffler and exhaust tubing under the car.

Result ?? Huge difference in the interior decibel rating reduction. I could now drive the car with windows down at 90mph + and speak to a passenger with a non-strained voice.

Penalty= about 9lbs. But I could shave that with CF parts no problem.

I actually have a Decibel meter and will attempt some 'before & after' testing when I do the same to my Z4 coupe.(maybe this Winter).

I don't think anyone should worry about adding 9 lbs of weight to their car. Better that the driver should lose weight if you want better performance from your car...and your body.

[Asianoak]

After reading this thread and several others I went ahead and purchased a box of Stinger Expert Series for my coupe, figured I'd use any leftovers on my 3 series or whatever other car replaces it. I also bought a foam camping pad from a local store. After seeing how BMW and other manufacturers used foam chunks to fill dead spaces between panels other body cavities I figured using chunks of the camping pad in a similar manner would help eliminate some of the creaking I was experiencing in the Z. My goal wasn't really to block out any road noise but to cut down on the rattles and hopefully enhance the factory stereo system a little.

To start I lined the inside of the doors in order to enhance the door speakers, focussing on the outer door skin and a little bit around were the speaker mounts to the door panel itself to cut down on vibrations, resonance and any rattles that popped up because of them. As mentioned above, I was impressed with how much clearer the speakers were and the fact that I didn't have to turn the volume up as much to hear them. I also noticed aspects within various tracks that I wasn't able to hear before except when listening with over ear headphones.

Based on this success I lined the inside of the kick panel speaker pods. Not really sure if this helped at all but since it was such a small space I figured it couldn't hurt (not much weight being added). I did notice that the pods are "ported" into the frame or chassis. I suppose I could have filled the holes or made sure to thoroughly cover them in an attempt to form a somewhat sealed speaker enclosed but it's a tight fit in there and I have big hands so... meh.

At this point I stripped the trunk and all the bulkhead trim panels. As mentioned in previous threads, the factory Carver sub enclosures are connected and the encloser is horribly sealed with many small holes, cracks and seams letting air out. So with music playing a went around the bulk head and notated all the spots that I could feel air escaping when bass was present. I found holes in the center section where the storage compartment would be, holes on the back side that look to be mounts for something and open seams along the top, as well as a few plastic rivets. I sealed all of these with epoxy caulking stuff I had laying around and after letting cure I covered with the Stinger. I also used the Stinger on the insides of the sub boxes, outside of the sub panels, rear bulkhead, inside of center storage compartment area and the trunk floor.

Then I used chunks of the foam camping pad to fill gaps on either side of the bulkhead and around the wheel wells. I didn't bother to sound deaden the wheel wells or the entire trunk floor, back, cabin floor or roof because as I mentioned earlier I wasn't concerned as much with road noise as I was with rattles and getting a little more out of the stock system.

Finally I used felt tape on all the panels where they touched each other or any metal and where the clips attached to them to help eliminate the annoying rattles and creaking. I also used to felt tape on the hatch panels but no sound deadening.

The end result is night and day compared to before. I still have two full sheets of Stinger left, plus probably a full sheet worth of scraps that I threw out. The vehicle feels much tighter and better put together than before with almost no rattles. I love how solid the doors feel now that the tin can feel is gone... they close with a solid thunk and not the rattly clank like before. The stereo is vastly improved as well, primarily the mids and highs. There is much more clarity present and the bass is much tighter. The Carver subs are still, well... they're still sub par (see what I did there?) but they sound much better than before. I have a feeling that if I ever get around to doing the roadster coding for the amp that it will be just about perfect for my tastes.... for a factory system.

Anyway, I'm sorry I didn't take pictures but ultimately for those considering the sound deadening I would highly recommend it, especially for the coupes.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Asianoak

After reading this thread and several others I went ahead and purchased a box of Stinger Expert Series for my coupe, figured I'd use any leftovers on my 3 series or whatever other car replaces it. I also bought a foam camping pad from a local store. After seeing how BMW and other manufacturers used foam chunks to fill dead spaces between panels other body cavities I figured using chunks of the camping pad in a similar manner would help eliminate some of the creaking I was experiencing in the Z. My goal wasn't really to block out any road noise but to cut down on the rattles and hopefully enhance the factory stereo system a little.

To start I lined the inside of the doors in order to enhance the door speakers, focussing on the outer door skin and a little bit around were the speaker mounts to the door panel itself to cut down on vibrations, resonance and any rattles that popped up because of them. As mentioned above, I was impressed with how much clearer the speakers were and the fact that I didn't have to turn the volume up as much to hear them. I also noticed aspects within various tracks that I wasn't able to hear before except when listening with over ear headphones.

Based on this success I lined the inside of the kick panel speaker pods. Not really sure if this helped at all but since it was such a small space I figured it couldn't hurt (not much weight being added). I did notice that the pods are "ported" into the frame or chassis. I suppose I could have filled the holes or made sure to thoroughly cover them in an attempt to form a somewhat sealed speaker enclosed but it's a tight fit in there and I have big hands so... meh.

At this point I stripped the trunk and all the bulkhead trim panels. As mentioned in previous threads, the factory Carver sub enclosures are connected and the encloser is horribly sealed with many small holes, cracks and seams letting air out. So with music playing a went around the bulk head and notated all the spots that I could feel air escaping when bass was present. I found holes in the center section where the storage compartment would be, holes on the back side that look to be mounts for something and open seams along the top, as well as a few plastic rivets. I sealed all of these with epoxy caulking stuff I had laying around and after letting cure I covered with the Stinger. I also used the Stinger on the insides of the sub boxes, outside of the sub panels, rear bulkhead, inside of center storage compartment area and the trunk floor.

Then I used chunks of the foam camping pad to fill gaps on either side of the bulkhead and around the wheel wells. I didn't bother to sound deaden the wheel wells or the entire trunk floor, back, cabin floor or roof because as I mentioned earlier I wasn't concerned as much with road noise as I was with rattles and getting a little more out of the stock system.

Finally I used felt tape on all the panels where they touched each other or any metal and where the clips attached to them to help eliminate the annoying rattles and creaking. I also used to felt tape on the hatch panels but no sound deadening.

The end result is night and day compared to before. I still have two full sheets of Stinger left, plus probably a full sheet worth of scraps that I threw out. The vehicle feels much tighter and better put together than before with almost no rattles. I love how solid the doors feel now that the tin can feel is gone... they close with a solid thunk and not the rattly clank like before. The stereo is vastly improved as well, primarily the mids and highs. There is much more clarity present and the bass is much tighter. The Carver subs are still, well... they're still sub par (see what I did there?) but they sound much better than before. I have a feeling that if I ever get around to doing the roadster coding for the amp that it will be just about perfect for my tastes.... for a factory system.

Anyway, I'm sorry I didn't take pictures but ultimately for those considering the sound deadening I would highly recommend it, especially for the coupes.

Thanks for sharing the experience. I'm guessing this added very little weight.

Sub par.

[Asianoak]

It added more than I would have preferred, which of course is none. But considering the alternative which is an aftermarket sub enclosure or larger aftermarket speakers I personally feel that it was worth the very minor weight penalty. And getting rid of all the rattles makes the experience so much more enjoyable.

Plus, I'd already installed a lighter battery when my stock one died so that helps offset some off the increase. And let's be real, if I was that concerned about 10lbs I'd stick to my diet.

[tominizer]

I think that anything that can be done to get rid of squeaks, rattles and groans of the Z4 is a big help. My roadster seems to rattle a lot more than I would like. It's something on my to-do list.

I need to source out that felt tape to place around all the contact points where panels touch each other or metal. And especially on clips. That apparently is a big help as noted above.

My understanding through many years of car audio is that you do not need to sound deaden an entire panel. I believe it's something like 20-30% only and the rest is over-kill and a waste of material.

De-coupling stuff is also HUGE is reducing unwanted vibrations. A big thing is car audio is to de-couple speakers from their surroundings. If when a speaker vibrates, if causes door panels to vibrate (for example), that door panel starts to act like a crappy speaker as well as it's moving similar to the speaker that's activating it. That destroys audio staging and imaging.

We use to sound deaden, decouple and add a layer of closed cell foam for the ultimate in noise reduction (if my memory serves me right.... its been a while!!). But it was a pain in the butt to try and re-assemble the factory bits over that much stuff I tell you.


But at the end of the day, cars are a terrible acoustical environment and incredible hard to fully tame. But something are worth the effort for sure. I hate rattles and squeaks. And roadster are bad for that.....


Other thing I was going to add here, if anyone is finding good resources online for buying supplies, please do post up links for the rest of us. thanks in advance.

[Asianoak]

I ordered the felt tape from Amazon... it worked okay and was cheap but there were long sections where the adhesive wouldn't stick to anything. I don't know if this was a quality issue, or if I got an order of old stock. Ultimately it didn't matter too much since I ordered two rolls and really only needed one... if that.