ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BMW Z4 Roadster and Coupe > General BMW Z4 Forum
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-20-2010, 10:16 AM   #133
Blind32
Certified Adrenaline Junkie
Blind32's Avatar
United_States
41
Rep
1,325
Posts

Drives: '07 Z4MC
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dallas TX

iTrader: (2)

Well I just got an email from LeatherZ stating that the RE mounts might be backordered until the end of the month. I'm thinking about cancelling the order and going with the UUC option 1 complete or option 2. Decissions decisions.

From what I've read, it is an easy swap so maybe I should gamble the 35 bucks and try the option 2. If I don't like, try to sell them and go option 1. Yup, thats what I'm going to do, just decided.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2010, 10:24 AM   #134
esqu1re
Lieutenant Colonel
esqu1re's Avatar
41
Rep
1,855
Posts

Drives: M Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: East Coast

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind32 View Post
Well I just got an email from LeatherZ stating that the RE mounts might be backordered until the end of the month. I'm thinking about cancelling the order and going with the UUC option 1 complete or option 2. Decissions decisions.

From what I've read, it is an easy swap so maybe I should gamble the 35 bucks and try the option 2. If I don't like, try to sell them and go option 1. Yup, thats what I'm going to do, just decided.
Dang it. I just ordered from leather z 2 minutes ago.
__________________


///M Coupe: RPI Scoop, OE Strut, CDV, Volk RE30, SS Brake Lines, Stromung Exhaust
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2010, 11:19 AM   #135
inTgr8r
Lieutenant General
inTgr8r's Avatar
Canada
2422
Rep
11,665
Posts

Drives: M2 Comp
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (10)

Just ordered UUC (cupless) before you guys suck up all the inventory there too.
__________________
'21 M2C Hockenheim Silver
'18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold)
'13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold)
'07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2010, 12:08 PM   #136
jragan
Imola Lover
jragan's Avatar
United_States
26
Rep
749
Posts

Drives: 2007 Imola Red M Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

iTrader: (0)

I'm going to be the a-hole and come out and say that your bushings aren't going to "solve" this. Because you're now trying to re-create the "problem" (which is changing, subconsciously, how you work the clutch just the slightest bit) you will not, as a result, be able to reproduce it. In fact, you're actually solving the problem by your deliberate attempts and resulting subconcious adjustment. The problem is in the synchros and the speed at which they engage (which is why a fraction of a fraction of a second of added pause with the clutch in or slipping the clutch the tinyest bit solves the problem). After you install the bushings, once you relax and settle back into your driving habits, you'll start grinding again.
__________________
His: RIP-"Ruby" E86 ///M Coupe: Pics Track Pics Short Vids Long Vids
Hers: 997-1 C4S: Pics
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2010, 12:28 PM   #137
inTgr8r
Lieutenant General
inTgr8r's Avatar
Canada
2422
Rep
11,665
Posts

Drives: M2 Comp
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (10)

^ bushings = CDV?
__________________
'21 M2C Hockenheim Silver
'18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold)
'13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold)
'07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)

Last edited by inTgr8r; 07-20-2010 at 12:34 PM..
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2010, 01:05 PM   #138
esqu1re
Lieutenant Colonel
esqu1re's Avatar
41
Rep
1,855
Posts

Drives: M Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: East Coast

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
Just ordered UUC (cupless) before you guys suck up all the inventory there too.
I got the cupped one. We can compare afterwords. =)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragan View Post
I'm going to be the a-hole and come out and say that your bushings aren't going to "solve" this. Because you're now trying to re-create the "problem" (which is changing, subconsciously, how you work the clutch just the slightest bit) you will not, as a result, be able to reproduce it. In fact, you're actually solving the problem by your deliberate attempts and resulting subconcious adjustment. The problem is in the synchros and the speed at which they engage (which is why a fraction of a fraction of a second of added pause with the clutch in or slipping the clutch the tinyest bit solves the problem). After you install the bushings, once you relax and settle back into your driving habits, you'll start grinding again.
I'm not completely sure I understand what you're saying, but if the problem is indeed in the synchros, then nothing we do this side of upgrading the synchros will work? First thing I'm going to do when I get this in is to rev it up beyond 5k and do a quick shift into 2 and repeat until I'm satisfied. Someone with this mod should post more of their results for the same.
__________________


///M Coupe: RPI Scoop, OE Strut, CDV, Volk RE30, SS Brake Lines, Stromung Exhaust
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2010, 01:22 PM   #139
inTgr8r
Lieutenant General
inTgr8r's Avatar
Canada
2422
Rep
11,665
Posts

Drives: M2 Comp
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (10)

IMO, we're dealing with 3 separate issues in this thread.

a) 1-2 grind which is tranny design/synchos; other fluid may help RP Synchromax, Redline MTL etc.
b) Downshift to 2nd gear rejection under loading conditions. = tranny mounts
c) Clutch engagement feel = CDV
__________________
'21 M2C Hockenheim Silver
'18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold)
'13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold)
'07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2010, 01:28 PM   #140
007MCoupe
Lieutenant Colonel
007MCoupe's Avatar
United_States
91
Rep
1,546
Posts

Drives: '18 Sakhir M3 ZCP
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: ( ///// )

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
IMO, we're dealing with 3 separate issues in this thread.

a) 1-2 grind which is tranny design/synchos; other fluid may help RP Synchromax, Redline MTL etc.
b) Downshift to 2nd gear rejection under loading conditions. = tranny mounts
c) Clutch engagement feel = CDV
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2010, 02:08 PM   #141
thekurgan
Bad Lieutenant
thekurgan's Avatar
United_States
232
Rep
3,517
Posts

Drives: E90M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragan View Post
I'm going to be the a-hole and come out and say that your bushings aren't going to "solve" this. Because you're now trying to re-create the "problem" (which is changing, subconsciously, how you work the clutch just the slightest bit) you will not, as a result, be able to reproduce it. In fact, you're actually solving the problem by your deliberate attempts and resulting subconcious adjustment. The problem is in the synchros and the speed at which they engage (which is why a fraction of a fraction of a second of added pause with the clutch in or slipping the clutch the tinyest bit solves the problem). After you install the bushings, once you relax and settle back into your driving habits, you'll start grinding again.
The synchros are always engaged, no? they don't move when selecting other ratios, only the fork does. The bushings will not solve the notchiness, which I agree, is BMW's "design" but the denial under load was indeed solved, which was my goal. I never had any grinding of any kind, just a really bad inconsistency. Many BMWs suffer from this condition, ask anyone with an E36 M3 how fast they changed their bushings
__________________
02 E39M5 | TiAg/Schwartz | Tubi Rumore | Ultimate Ti Pedals | E60 SSK | Jim Blanton 3.45 40/100% | Coby Alcantara | StrongStrut STB
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2010, 02:23 PM   #142
esqu1re
Lieutenant Colonel
esqu1re's Avatar
41
Rep
1,855
Posts

Drives: M Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: East Coast

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
IMO, we're dealing with 3 separate issues in this thread.

a) 1-2 grind which is tranny design/synchos; other fluid may help RP Synchromax, Redline MTL etc.
b) Downshift to 2nd gear rejection under loading conditions. = tranny mounts
c) Clutch engagement feel = CDV
Ah! Yeah, denial into 2nd is a huge problem for me.
__________________


///M Coupe: RPI Scoop, OE Strut, CDV, Volk RE30, SS Brake Lines, Stromung Exhaust
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2010, 02:33 PM   #143
inTgr8r
Lieutenant General
inTgr8r's Avatar
Canada
2422
Rep
11,665
Posts

Drives: M2 Comp
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (10)

^ me too, I'm good otherwise.

I had a track day recently that has a hard right hairpin requiring a 3-2 shift.
I could get it maybe 25% of the time.
It also has a hard left hairpin requiring a 3-2 shift, which was no problem.

Another M Coupe had exactly the same problem.

I'll be back there in Sept with the new mounts, so it'll be a great comparison.
__________________
'21 M2C Hockenheim Silver
'18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold)
'13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold)
'07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2010, 03:01 PM   #144
Blind32
Certified Adrenaline Junkie
Blind32's Avatar
United_States
41
Rep
1,325
Posts

Drives: '07 Z4MC
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dallas TX

iTrader: (2)

The problem I speak of is the denial of going into 2nd and that hideous grinding noise that comes with it. Feels like the shifter only goes 1/2 way in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
^ me too, I'm good otherwise.

I had a track day recently that has a hard right hairpin requiring a 3-2 shift.
I could get it maybe 25% of the time.
It also has a hard left hairpin requiring a 3-2 shift, which was no problem.

Another M Coupe had exactly the same problem.

I'll be back there in Sept with the new mounts, so it'll be a great comparison.
25% of all your laps? How many laps did you do? Just trying to determine how many times it denied you. Sounds like your report will definitely be a great comparison.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2010, 03:26 PM   #145
esqu1re
Lieutenant Colonel
esqu1re's Avatar
41
Rep
1,855
Posts

Drives: M Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: East Coast

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind32 View Post
The problem I speak of is the denial of going into 2nd and that hideous grinding noise that comes with it. Feels like the shifter only goes 1/2 way in.
For me it's this:

Denial into 2nd can happen without grinding. This happens more often than grinding (that bzzzt sound), which always also results in denial into 2nd.
__________________


///M Coupe: RPI Scoop, OE Strut, CDV, Volk RE30, SS Brake Lines, Stromung Exhaust
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2010, 04:00 PM   #146
inTgr8r
Lieutenant General
inTgr8r's Avatar
Canada
2422
Rep
11,665
Posts

Drives: M2 Comp
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind32 View Post
The problem I speak of is the denial of going into 2nd and that hideous grinding noise that comes with it. Feels like the shifter only goes 1/2 way in.

25% of all your laps? How many laps did you do? Just trying to determine how many times it denied you. Sounds like your report will definitely be a great comparison.
lol... damned if I know; lots!
There were only ~ 16 of us there & had the track all day.
__________________
'21 M2C Hockenheim Silver
'18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold)
'13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold)
'07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2010, 06:17 PM   #147
jragan
Imola Lover
jragan's Avatar
United_States
26
Rep
749
Posts

Drives: 2007 Imola Red M Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

iTrader: (0)

Interesting. This is the first I've heard of a problem from 3-->2 under load. My local road course is extremely tight and very technical (i.e. fairly slow) and I've never needed to touch 2nd gear (and I was always one of the faster on the track). Maybe you should drive faster so you don't need to downshift into 2nd... I keed, I keed!
__________________
His: RIP-"Ruby" E86 ///M Coupe: Pics Track Pics Short Vids Long Vids
Hers: 997-1 C4S: Pics
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2010, 06:32 PM   #148
RBull
Captain
Canada
12
Rep
725
Posts

Drives: 2007 M Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nova Scotia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
IMO, we're dealing with 3 separate issues in this thread.

a) 1-2 grind which is tranny design/synchos; other fluid may help RP Synchromax, Redline MTL etc.
b) Downshift to 2nd gear rejection under loading conditions. = tranny mounts
c) Clutch engagement feel = CDV
Pretty straight forward to me too that these are 3 genuine and separate issues with this car.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2010, 06:47 PM   #149
inTgr8r
Lieutenant General
inTgr8r's Avatar
Canada
2422
Rep
11,665
Posts

Drives: M2 Comp
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragan View Post
Interesting. This is the first I've heard of a problem from 3-->2 under load. My local road course is extremely tight and very technical (i.e. fairly slow) and I've never needed to touch 2nd gear (and I was always one of the faster on the track). Maybe you should drive faster so you don't need to downshift into 2nd... I keed, I keed!
lol.... I've driven that corner faster a couple of times with negative (oh shit ) results.

This isn't a high speed track. I barely get into 4th on the back straight.
It's a very technical 2.5 mile loop with 14 corners.
It shows your short comings in a hurry.

The funny thing is the downshift is not just driver error, since others find the same thing on that corner.
It's also strange that it's only the right hander that's a problem, the left hand hairpin is no problem at all.

I'm really looking forward to testing new tranny mounts to see the difference.
I'll definitely post my findings.
__________________
'21 M2C Hockenheim Silver
'18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold)
'13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold)
'07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2010, 06:58 PM   #150
RBull
Captain
Canada
12
Rep
725
Posts

Drives: 2007 M Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nova Scotia

iTrader: (0)

LOl, ours is 1.6 miles with 11 corners and lot of elevation changes and I also just hit 4th on the back straight with the G. They claim it to be one of the most technical tracks in the country. My shortcomings were certainly evident early too.

I experienced the 3>2 rejection a couple of times in CB. Just can't remember now which direction of turn but sounds like it must have been a right hander.

Too bad you aren't down a little earlier to have a run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
lol.... I've driven that corner faster a couple of times with negative (oh shit ) results.

This isn't a high speed track. I barely get into 4th on the back straight.
It's a very technical 2.5 mile loop with 14 corners.
It shows your short comings in a hurry.

The funny thing is the downshift is not just driver error, since others find the same thing on that corner.
It's also strange that it's only the right hander that's a problem, the left hand hairpin is no problem at all.

I'm really looking forward to testing new tranny mounts to see the difference.
I'll definitely post my findings.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2010, 07:04 PM   #151
inTgr8r
Lieutenant General
inTgr8r's Avatar
Canada
2422
Rep
11,665
Posts

Drives: M2 Comp
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBull View Post
Too bad you aren't down a little earlier to have a run.
Yeah, that'd be great.
I'm definitely planning on CB, just not sure when we'll hit it.
__________________
'21 M2C Hockenheim Silver
'18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold)
'13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold)
'07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2010, 07:20 PM   #152
jbh
Private First Class
jbh's Avatar
18
Rep
156
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4M
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fort Worth

iTrader: (2)

Lots of 3-2 rejection for me last Sunday. It happened 100% of the time on my 8 laps autox. This is the issue I am trying to fix.

Local Indie shop was aware of the problem and recommended the uuc mounts with the cap over the RE mounts. Recommended black over red due to the vibrations. I ordered them last night. Also ordered the replacement cdv valve as well. Hopefully it will all be better now.

Indie shop said about 25% of the BMW cars they see have updated mounts and most of those cars never see the track.

Last edited by jbh; 07-22-2010 at 09:43 PM..
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2010, 08:43 AM   #153
Blind32
Certified Adrenaline Junkie
Blind32's Avatar
United_States
41
Rep
1,325
Posts

Drives: '07 Z4MC
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dallas TX

iTrader: (2)

1-2 rejection for me last night leaving a stop sign. Only ran it up to about 4k.
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2010, 09:03 AM   #154
jragan
Imola Lover
jragan's Avatar
United_States
26
Rep
749
Posts

Drives: 2007 Imola Red M Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbh View Post
Lots of 3-2 rejection for me last Sunday. It happened 100% of the time on my 8 laps auto. This is the issue I am trying to fix.

Local Indie shop was aware of the problem and recommended the uuc mounts with the cap over the RE mounts. Recommended black over red due to the vibrations. I ordered them last night. Also ordered the replacement cdv valve as well. Hopefully it will all be better now.

Indie shop said about 25% of the BMW cars they see have updated mounts and most of those cars never see the track.
Are you talking about Lonestar Bavaraian? Which track were you at?
__________________
His: RIP-"Ruby" E86 ///M Coupe: Pics Track Pics Short Vids Long Vids
Hers: 997-1 C4S: Pics
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:51 PM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST