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      09-22-2017, 03:29 PM   #1
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More lead than a fishing weight. (updated with break in results)

Whelp.. that's bad.



I'm not sure if 105 is a record but it's the highest I've ever seen.

Car is new to me, just completed an oil change and sent in the sample to Blackstone. Vehicle was very well maintained by previous owner, runs beautifully, no noise at startup, nothing to suggest that it's digesting itself as the numbers above represent.

I can't rule out contamination, I used my topside extractor and I guess it's possible something really really horrible was in there.

Blackstone suggested a re-sample in 1500 miles, here's to hoping I make it that far.

Last edited by steffenme1; 02-28-2018 at 11:16 PM..
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      09-23-2017, 06:52 PM   #2
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Holy lead poisoning Batman! How many miles on the car? If it's over 40k I'm not sure I'd wait 1,500 miles. Bearings and labor are under 2k, a new engine or rebuild is 7-8x that.

The car could have been wonderfully maintained and still need bearings. Good discussions on that, driving style, oil, bearings, below.

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1419042
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      09-23-2017, 07:54 PM   #3
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Yikes! Your copper and iron are elevated, too. At ~57K, you're definitely in the sweet spot for bearings. A lot of us also cut the recommended oil change interval in half for ~7500 mile oil changes for regular driving, and some like going 1/3s on the interval at 5000 miles for simplicity.

Hey, just curious, did you happen to run a bottle of Techron fuel treatment concentrate before you did the oil change? I did right before I got my 43 lead reading, and I've wondered if that might have somehow contributed to the higher reading. There is no lead in Techron, but there are some anecdotes out there where people had elevated lead readings after using the full bottle of the concentrated fuel system cleaner. The thought is the cleaner in Techron is leaching some lead. I have no idea idea if this is possible, just anecdotal comments I've read.

That's interesting about the topside extractor. It's probably a coincidence, but when I got my reading of 43, I used a topside extractor on my "in-between" oil change. The next oil change, I drained it from the pan and caught the sample mid-stream. That analysis showed 18 in the oil, and I think I had done a Techron treatment then, too.

I've got a bottle of Techron in my tank right now, because I let the car sit for about 2 months, and after I go through a couple more tanks of gas, I'm going to do an oil change and NOT do the Techron before my next analysis and see if lead is still low.

I'm still doing my bearings, regardless, just for peace of mind. I'm going with BE Bearings and BE-ARP bolts. Until this week when I went research-crazy, I was going to do WPC with OEM bolts. I think either of these solutions are good for the S54, but not a permanent fix. The nice thing about the BE bearings is that they are made by the same company making the OEM bearings. BE had them make them slightly thinner, so when they add an additional anti-friction layer, they are not thicker, but rather retain slightly more clearance than OEM bearing shells. So, we get just a little more oil layer, we gain an anti-friction layer, and we retain the same ability to do oil analysis and watch for lead. The BE-ARP bolts solve the problem with the original ARP bolts. The OEM bolts have a more complex torquing procedure.

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      09-24-2017, 12:28 AM   #4
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Yup. Mileage right there on the report.

Bearing time!
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      09-24-2017, 01:45 PM   #5
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for sake of 1500 bucks, with that report , the only place id be driving that car is to the garage to get the bearings done.
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      09-25-2017, 09:47 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
I'm not sure I'd wait 1,500 miles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beedub View Post
for sake of 1500 bucks, with that report , the only place id be driving that car is to the garage to get the bearings done.
Yeah after sleeping on it over the weekend I begrudingly came to the same conclusion. It seems like the effort and cost of being proactive and just replacing the bearings pales in comparison to the effort and cost if it 'splodes. I cleaned the garage and put it up on jackstands yesterday, it'll live there until parts arrive and I swap them out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyNC View Post
Hey, just curious, did you happen to run a bottle of Techron fuel treatment concentrate before you did the oil change?
So I've only owned the vehicle for a 1000'ish miles so I don't have full context into it's history but I contacted the previous ownwer and he stated that he never ran any kind of fule or oil treatment. The PO was a really good owner, always took care of the car but never monitored oil and not being much of a BMW guy wasn't aware of the S54 rod bearing history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyNC View Post
That's interesting about the topside extractor. It's probably a coincidence, but when I got my reading of 43
That is interesting... topside is just so much easier though, and I'm unsure how the method of removal could have such a profound impact on lead levels like that.. :

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyNC View Post
I'm still doing my bearings, regardless, just for peace of mind. I'm going with BE Bearings and BE-ARP bolts.
Thanks for your thread here Salty:
http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1422880
I've been watching it with great interest, and appreciate you sharing the research you've done, I plan on ordering the same bearings.

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Originally Posted by SaltyNC View Post
The BE-ARP bolts solve the problem with the original ARP bolts. The OEM bolts have a more complex torquing procedure.
Did you already get the torquing procedure from BE? Their website is a bit sparse on details but I'm assuming that much like the regular ARP bolts you can use either a stretch gauge or a much simpler standard torque value?
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      09-25-2017, 11:43 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steffenme1 View Post
Did you already get the torquing procedure from BE? Their website is a bit sparse on details but I'm assuming that much like the regular ARP bolts you can use either a stretch gauge or a much simpler standard torque value?
I haven't spoken to BE, yet. I was planning to get details in the near future. With the S65, and the BE-ARP bolts, I believe it is a simple torque to 50 procedure. Good luck with everything. I hope it goes smoothly for you.

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      09-25-2017, 01:37 PM   #8
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Yeah, the ARP bolts call for one of (1) stretch to .0065-.0070, or (2) lubricated torque to 50lbs-ft. Don't forget to use the ARP lube otherwise 50lbs-ft will translate to significantly less clamping force than intended.

I would also advise that you step from finger-tight to ~20lbs-ft to full torque on alternating sides of the rod cap just to avoid pinching or slightly rotating the cap-side bearing shell. But I'm kind of paranoid.
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      10-14-2017, 07:26 PM   #9
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Update:

Finally dropped the pan and took the bearings out today, went with BE Bearings and ARP bolts, looking at the condition of the old bearings it was well timed.

Lots 'o copper! number 2 specifically looks like it was getting ready to hurl itself out into the daylight.



I only remembered to take three pics all day...

On the support (my garage looks like a tomb in this pic but I promise the lighting is quite good)



And of course everyone loves the bright blue crank!

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      10-14-2017, 08:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattfwalters View Post
Yeah, the ARP bolts call for one of (1) stretch to .0065-.0070, or (2) lubricated torque to 50lbs-ft. Don't forget to use the ARP lube otherwise 50lbs-ft will translate to significantly less clamping force than intended.

I would also advise that you step from finger-tight to ~20lbs-ft to full torque on alternating sides of the rod cap just to avoid pinching or slightly rotating the cap-side bearing shell. But I'm kind of paranoid.
Great points, and I watched an old video on Youtube where they were assembling the S54 engine in Munich. They actually have a special dual-head torque wrench that is pneumatic, and it tightens both sides simultaneously. It was cool. You can see it here around the 3 minute mark:



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      10-14-2017, 08:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steffenme1 View Post
Finally dropped the pan and took the bearings out today, went with BE Bearings and ARP bolts, looking at the condition of the old bearings it was well timed.
So glad you caught this in time. I don't think I've ever seen lead readings that high posted on the forum, so good call on changing them, and impressed you did it yourself.

I hope you don't mind if I ask a few questions. This is in my immediate future.

1. I see you have what appears to be a ring-bound manual. Did you make that yourself from DIYs? Were there any DIYs you found really helpful?

2. Did you only use front jack stands, and were able to get the oil pan off OK?

3. Did you completely remove the front suspension?

4. Any gotchas or unexpected difficulties you encountered?

5. Did you lube the bearings with assembly lube or just wipe them with oil?

6. How long did it take, and did you do it solo or with a helper?

Thanks!

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      10-15-2017, 08:46 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyNC View Post
So glad you caught this in time. I don't think I've ever seen lead readings that high posted on the forum, so good call on changing them, and impressed you did it yourself.
Salty

I hope you don't mind if I ask a few questions. This is in my immediate future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyNC View Post
1. I see you have what appears to be a ring-bound manual.
It's actually a torque spec reference I found in DIY somewhere... it's for the E46 but for the purpose of my DIY I thought it would be worth printing it out. I just sent the file to a local FedEx Office and a few hours and 25 bucks later I had a spiffy bound copy.





Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyNC View Post
Did you make that yourself from DIYs? Were there any DIYs you found really helpful?
In no particular order here are a bunch of links I read through.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=455681
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=584535
http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=607732
http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=657662
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=558412
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...W_Z4M_Tech.htm
http://www.rfdm.com/Daniel/MRoadster/BMWDocs/TIS/

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyNC View Post
2. Did you only use front jack stands, and were able to get the oil pan off OK?
I'm up on four stands, I really like the ESCO's I have; a friend of mine gave me the set in exchange for some work I did on his 997, if I had known how stable and easy they are to use I would have bought them for myself years ago.



I think most people also use these urethane inserts as well, I am also a big fan.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyNC View Post
3. Did you completely remove the front suspension?
No.... but man I hate that thing, it is ALWAYS in the way! If you look in this old thread by Pal

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthre...t=rod+bearings

you can see how far the subframe will move out of the way if you remove the FCABs, which is awesome if you have a lift but the subframe just hogs up floor space otherwise and is a general PITA. When I removed my splash shields for this repair I found my power steering loop to be leaking. Because I had to remove that I should have just gone whole hog and removed the entire subframe, it would have been more work in the long run but I think it would have made my life easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyNC View Post
4. Any gotchas or unexpected difficulties you encountered?
The BMW TIS for the rod bearing is short but well written and specifically calls out something I found helpful. When you remove the bearing caps the TIS suggests using a piece of cardboard to keep from scratching up the journal, I did exactly that, slipped a long skinny piece of cardboard around the journal and using a binder clip kept in in place by pinning it to itself. It was super cheap and easy piece of mind.

The oil pan is a giant unwieldy jerk of a thing, I hate it so much but don't forget the two 'hidden' bolts that hang out inside the trans case.

The oil cooler on the Z4 is actually a lot easier than the E46, but I still removed the top bolt on the line to give myself more room, I would absolutely do so again rather than fight the line.

No DIY I found really mentions getting our engine on a support, you have to use a board or something to bridge the gap between the radiator support and the strut towers. The E46 engine sits back much further and it's not an issue, but for our cars a but of backyard ingenuity is required. I'm sure there is a fancy BMW tool that negates the need for this but I don't have one.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyNC View Post
5. Did you lube the bearings with assembly lube or just wipe them with oil?
Assembly lube, redline specifically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyNC View Post
6. How long did it take, and did you do it solo or with a helper?
Solo, two full days total but I'm a pretty slow and doting worker so you could probably do it in less if you were more ambitious.

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      10-15-2017, 11:55 AM   #13
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well done!!! Love the crank colour on this car!!!!!
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      10-15-2017, 04:07 PM   #14
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Great call on the bearing change! with all that copper showing, I wonder why the analysis report is only showing normal copper level :
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      10-15-2017, 09:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steffenme1 View Post
Solo, two full days total but I'm a pretty slow and doting worker so you could probably do it in less if you were more ambitious.

Thanks so much for answering my questions, and really appreciate the DIY links. I wasn't familiar with a couple of them. Very kind of you to take the time to post those with the additional pics.

I have the jack inserts, so I'm good to go there, but it looks like it is time to make an Harbor Freight run for the engine support.

Impressive job! I bet after completing a bearing swap, you feel like a boss!

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      10-16-2017, 02:22 PM   #16
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Wow! That a lot of lead. On my last report my lead was at 30 I was like dam 10 over what it should be haha.. car has 102k miles and sees track days. Glad mines doing well, but still gonna change them next month. Nice write up!!
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      10-17-2017, 09:02 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4M_GT3 View Post
Wow! That a lot of lead. On my last report my lead was at 30 I was like dam 10 over what it should be haha.. car has 102k miles and sees track days. Glad mines doing well, but still gonna change them next month. Nice write up!!
at 103k your doing really well, get them changed asap however!! this is danger zone!
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      10-18-2017, 05:08 PM   #18
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Impressive work there. And just in time too. Great tips DIYing. Thank for that!

Guess Salty is next up at bat!
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      10-18-2017, 07:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
Impressive work there. And just in time too. Great tips DIYing. Thank for that!

Guess Salty is next up at bat!
Yeah... sorry I didn't have the chance to take more pics, working solo I was usually filthy and didn't want to handle a camera.

I will say that I have seen several mentions of this car being easy to wrench on and I absolutely agree. The documentation that exists on various forums and the easy layout of the car makes it great to DIY, as the car comes apart everything 'makes sense' and at no point did I ever feel like I was fighting some awful design decision.

Happy wrenching to everyone, I'll be sure to update this thread again when my 1200 mile oil report comes back. (hopefully clean)

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      10-18-2017, 09:19 PM   #20
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Guess Salty is next up at bat!
Yeah, I'm studying like I'm a college kid again, Finnegan. Woke up last night and couldn't get back to sleep, so studied DIYs and tech diagrams from 2 AM until 4 AM.

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      10-19-2017, 02:53 AM   #21
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Quote:
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Yeah, I'm studying like I'm a college kid again, Finnegan. Woke up last night and couldn't get back to sleep, so studied DIYs and tech diagrams from 2 AM until 4 AM.

Salty
Lol. At least I'm not the only one who does that. I wake up from time to time, research projects, at least I'm not getting madder about not falling asleep. I usually wake up at 6 in a chair after finally dozing off, but smarter for the effort. Not sure I'm brave enough to try this one though--while I've done this job, rings, and even ground valves on a one cylinder Briggs and Straton that's not a S6 S54.

But I am looking forward to watching your progress/experience. As I learned a thing or two in this thread. I've learned a lot hanging out here and take on jobs I never would have imagined doing a few years back. Besides, every screw up by a shop leans me more toward "well, at least if I f*** it up, I'll know, be honest, and not say 'just drive it' only to have the work fail". And there's good folks here who've got your back should something go amiss.
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      10-19-2017, 08:06 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
Besides, every screw up by a shop...
This is what scares me. If I lived in Florida or California, I would almost certainly take it to Lang or Kaiv to have the work done. They do so many, their prices are reasonable and they obviously know what they are doing. I get the feeling a lot of folks around my area are basically practicing on our cars. I even had one mechanic tell me he did a bearing job and a year later, the guy lost his engine at a track due to bearing failure. Well, who knows, maybe the indy did the job perfect, or maybe he didn't.

The other thing is that my S54 just went past 50K, and I'm still running the same suspension, so I know I need new bushings, etc. I need to replace the guibo. I probably should replace the CPV with the Viton o-ring. While I have the bottom off, all of this will be fairly easy, so can take care of a bunch of maintenance items at one time. I'm going to be installing coilovers, too.

After this, I'll feel like I can really drive the car without much worry for failure. All of the weaknesses will have been addressed in the S54. After the vanos work, my engine is pulling like a freight train and smooth as can be, and it's making me crazy I can't take it out and give it a proper flogging.

I agree 100% about the community here. It's awesome that we have so many true enthusiasts. With our group and the M3 guys and gals, we really have a great amount of knowledge, and everyone is friendly and helpful.

Salty
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