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      03-23-2024, 08:28 PM   #1
mousitch
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Rod bearings done at 44000 miles. Ugh

Figured as I have had high lead levels since 24000 it was time. Had bearings replaced and engine mounts replaced. While subframe was off had them install euro headers and tune out o2 sensors. Hardest part is trying to stay under 4k rpm for 600 miles before changing the oil and letting her rip. First post in what? Five years? Find me a good photo hosting sight and I’ll toss up bearing pics…they had some copper showing…

Also after my tune cruise control will not activate. Heard of that before? Going back to tuner Thursday.
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      03-24-2024, 07:06 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mousitch View Post
Figured as I have had high lead levels since 24000 it was time. Had bearings replaced and engine mounts replaced. While subframe was off had them install euro headers and tune out o2 sensors. Hardest part is trying to stay under 4k rpm for 600 miles before changing the oil and letting her rip. First post in what? Five years? Find me a good photo hosting sight and I’ll toss up bearing pics…they had some copper showing…

Also after my tune cruise control will not activate. Heard of that before? Going back to tuner Thursday.
Your mechanic told you to observe a 600 mile break in period?
Rod and main bearings don't require breaking in, only piston rings do.
44,000k is a pretty short life span, are you doing a lot of track work?
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      03-24-2024, 09:27 AM   #3
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If you've treated your engine right it must have had a really hard life in the hands of the previous owner(s).

Here's what the rod bearings looked like on my E46 M3 at 100K miles, it's an US import so it might have had a recall. But if/when I don't know. It's my strong belief that the rod bearing issue is highly exaggerated and heavily concentrated to the internet. I simply call it regular maintenance, keep in mind it's a race engine for the street. How many race engines lasts as long as the S54 does? Blows my mind really.

Cylinder 1-6, Övre = Upper and Nedre = Lower.

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      03-24-2024, 11:31 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westersund View Post
If you've treated your engine right it must have had a really hard life in the hands of the previous owner(s).

Here's what the rod bearings looked like on my E46 M3 at 100K miles, it's an US import so it might have had a recall. But if/when I don't know. It's my strong belief that the rod bearing issue is highly exaggerated and heavily concentrated to the internet. I simply call it regular maintenance, keep in mind it's a race engine for the street. How many race engines lasts as long as the S54 does? Blows my mind really.

Cylinder 1-6, Övre = Upper and Nedre = Lower.

That's what I thought too - that the rod bearing issue is highly exaggerated and heavily concentrated to the internet. But I ultimately decided to believe my oil analysis instead of burying my head in the sand. I did mine at approx. 55k and glad I did it. If read just that one single thread, there are a lot of engines with similar issues on a lower production runs than the E46M3 => https://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1461006
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      03-24-2024, 11:42 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XMetal View Post
That's what I thought too - that the rod bearing issue is highly exaggerated and heavily concentrated to the internet. But I ultimately decided to believe my oil analysis instead of burying my head in the sand. I did mine at approx. 55k and glad I did it. If read just that one single thread, there are a lot of engines with similar issues on a lower production runs than the E46M3 => https://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1461006
I know that there's quite a few rod bearings that have been changed out on S54s, but what no one knows is how the engines have been treated. The S54 seem to bring out the worst in people. I've decided to revert back to an oil weight that the bearing clearance in the S54 calls for so I'm using Motul 300V 10W-40.
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      03-24-2024, 12:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grannyknot View Post
44,000k is a pretty short life span, are you doing a lot of track work?
Here in mainland europe, the common guideline amongst (german) specialists is every 50k Miles (or 80k km).
This was already a common guideline in the mid/late 90's when we got the euro s50 (s54 predecessor).
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      03-24-2024, 12:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westersund View Post
I've decided to revert back to an oil weight that the bearing clearance in the S54 calls for so I'm using Motul 300V 10W-40.
Are you sure that's wise? the bearing clearance on the s54 rodbearings is considerably larger than on say a m54.
10W40 is also an oil weight that is used by a lot of people that have a m54b30.
Although it's difficult to say which engine runs hotter. The s54 takes longer to heat up evenly (cast iron block) but also has an oil cooler with thermostat.
I think in the end rodbearings are just a part of life for the s54/65/85 owner. Calculated costs for high revving undersquare engines.
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      03-24-2024, 12:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Here in mainland europe, the common guideline amongst (german) specialists is every 50k Miles (or 80k km).
This was already a common guideline in the mid/late 90's when we got the euro s50 (s54 predecessor).
Just through casual reading of forums over the years there does seem to be huge differences sometimes in the mileage owners get from S54 rod bearings.
I guess "I take care of my engine" is completely subjective.
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      03-24-2024, 01:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grannyknot View Post
Just through casual reading of forums over the years there does seem to be huge differences sometimes in the mileage owners get from S54 rod bearings.
I guess "I take care of my engine" is completely subjective.
There is indeed a wide spread on wear and if or not it goes all the way down to the copper layer, however, I've only seen 1 or 2 cases of the hundreds where no wear was showing at 80k km and the in place bearings could be considered still acceptable.
Compare that to say an m54, where pretty much no wear is showing all the time at double the mileage, also on supercharged versions.
So rodbearing wear is a pretty certainty in owning an S54 and can be considered as a calculated cost. Loads of specialists here that specialize on this.
A typical rodbearing swap incl parts/oil/filter costs here (germany) about €1400 (incl 21% VAT salestax), so thats 2.8eurocents per mile (or 3 yankiecents/mile). I think that's a normal additional running cost for a high rev engine, and not something to cheap out on (penny wise pound foolish)

Still it's also not really known how the wear in the s54 is forming. To me it looks like cavitation wear.
However that doesn't necessarily have to do with rpm. The oil pump pressure regulator piston in the s54 also wears.

But indeed the "I take care of my engine" is very relative. Most s54 owners even don't put serious miles on their engines and inherit the miles of a previous owner. How many s54 owners here have actually put down say 100k miles themselves on their s54?
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      03-24-2024, 01:49 PM   #10
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Car was tracked by previous owner yes. Knew it would need early service. Mechanic said the motor is in great shape. Warm up that oil people.
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      03-25-2024, 11:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Are you sure that's wise? the bearing clearance on the s54 rodbearings is considerably larger than on say a m54.
10W40 is also an oil weight that is used by a lot of people that have a m54b30.
Although it's difficult to say which engine runs hotter. The s54 takes longer to heat up evenly (cast iron block) but also has an oil cooler with thermostat.
I think in the end rodbearings are just a part of life for the s54/65/85 owner. Calculated costs for high revving undersquare engines.
According to BMW TIS the crankshaft bearing clearances are similar, they're actually slightly tigher on the S54. But the con rod bearing clearances are a little looser on the S54, but not a lot. Depending on the clearances I would run 10W-40 (lower end clearances) or 5W-50 (higher end clearances). But that's just my opinion.

S54: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...arings/5rYXcUH

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...arings/5wRWhGB

M54: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...arings/6zJ8es4

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...arings/79Vl9k3

My S54 in the E46 M3 doesn't have an oil thermostat nor does it run hot. On a track day during summer the oil never reaches over 100 degree and the water stays below 90 degrees, always. But I do agree that the rod bearings should be considered a service item on a S-engine.

Edit: And if you compare to a newer engine like the N55 in the M2, the con rod play is even larger than the S54 and the recommended oil weight is 0W-30 to 5W-40.
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      03-25-2024, 11:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grannyknot View Post
Your mechanic told you to observe a 600 mile break in period?
I second this question. Completed a full blown track day in my coupe <400mi after a rod bearings and VANOS overhaul, joint trackside by the shop owner (and racer) who oversaw the work and expressed no concern.
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      03-25-2024, 01:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westersund View Post
According to BMW TIS the crankshaft bearing clearances are similar, they're actually slightly tigher on the S54.
ok, but the crankshaft bearings don't have any problems. They also aren't exposed to enormous G forces. That is what's critical about rod bearings. And the S54 is of course higher revving, and the crank stroke is also bigger (91mm vs 89mm), and those alterations increase g forces squared, so also the chance of cavitation erosion wear, what is happening in the rodbearings.
But in truth I couldn't tell whether a thicker or thinner oil gives more cavitation under high g forces. And part of that cavitation might not even be caused in the rodbearings themselves as the pressure regulator piston in the S54 also wears, so that's bouncing around like crazy too.

Quote:
My S54 in the E46 M3 doesn't have an oil thermostat
Have you removed the oil thermostat from the filterhousing?
Why?
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      03-25-2024, 01:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
ok, but the crankshaft bearings don't have any problems. They also aren't exposed to enormous G forces. That is what's critical about rod bearings. And the S54 is of course higher revving, and the crank stroke is also bigger (91mm vs 89mm), and those alterations increase g forces squared, so also the chance of cavitation erosion wear, what is happening in the rodbearings.
But in truth I couldn't tell whether a thicker or thinner oil gives more cavitation under high g forces. And part of that cavitation might not even be caused in the rodbearings themselves as the pressure regulator piston in the S54 also wears, so that's bouncing around like crazy too.

Have you removed the oil thermostat from the filterhousing?
Why?
Doesn't really matter as long as the oil temps are under control. And like I linked, the N55 rod bearing clearances are even bigger than the S54 and the recommended oil is even thinner than what I use.

Yes, it's replaced with a dummy for higher flow and better cooling.

https://www.mk-motorsportteile.de/en...mmy-m3-e46-s54
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      03-25-2024, 03:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
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And like I linked, the N55 rod bearing clearances are even bigger than the S54 and the recommended oil is even thinner than what I use.
But the s65 also has that same bearing clearance that the n55 has, and for that BMW recommends 10w60, just as for the s54.

Maybe ideal oil weight is more than just bearing clearance?

Have you done a lot of miles/km in your z4m with the thinner oil? (like 50k km or more?)
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      03-25-2024, 10:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 86Zed View Post
I second this question. Completed a full blown track day in my coupe <400mi after a rod bearings and VANOS overhaul, joint trackside by the shop owner (and racer) who oversaw the work and expressed no concern.
I broke in my VANOS rebuild also for 500 miles to make sure seals seated properly. Met my mechanic in 2008 and he races also. But you do you. It’s just a preference from people I trust. Everyone has options.
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      03-26-2024, 09:54 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
But the s65 also has that same bearing clearance that the n55 has, and for that BMW recommends 10w60, just as for the s54.

Maybe ideal oil weight is more than just bearing clearance?

Have you done a lot of miles/km in your z4m with the thinner oil? (like 50k km or more?)
Oil weight depends on more than bearing clearance, yes. S54s are notorious for running hot because of inadequate cooling, both oil and water. The cooling on my E46 M3 race car is very good, that's why I can run an oil that's more suitable to the bearing clearances used. On a standard car I wouldn't run 10W-40 because of the poor cooling. If I didn't have 30L Castrol 10W-60 laying around I would run 5W-50 on my Z4 M because it's not driven very hard. A track car without proper cooling 10W-60 is nothing more than a band aid, but a must if you want the engine to survive. Same goes for the S65, inadequate cooling combined with a high RPM engine means very high temps.
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      03-26-2024, 03:52 PM   #18
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I fully agree that the oil weight is just a band aid, and relies on higher temps that thin out the oil and be equivalent to what a 40 weight would be with lower operating temps.

I use 15-50w as I prefer to have a thinner oil weight span for more stability. I also add Ceratec or MoS2 additive.

I am also of the believe that 10w60 is also a variable on bearing wear for street driven cars as it just flows more poorly during cold starts.
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