1M is out... How does it compare to our cars?

[Swashplate]

This would be like trading my GF for Katie Couric... the 1M appears to have no soul. Only a drive will end all of this speculation.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Nikki

0-100km/h in 4.9s. how is that possible with 70 extra torque? it should be a lot faster.

As a comparison, the official BMW 0-100km/h time was 5.2s for both Roadster and Coupe and is 5.4s for the 135i with N55 and manual transmission.

[wrh3]

The motor in the 1M is the same N54 I had in my 335 with different software to get HP/TQ gains.....not even close to the S65 or S54, the last of the real M motors.

If they had put the S65 in the 1M, that would be something to talk about. No doubt the 1M chassis is M engineered but the motor hardware is not.

[Nikki]

Originally Posted by aerobod

As a comparison, the official BMW 0-100km/h time was 5.2s for both Roadster and Coupe and is 5.4s for the 135i with N55 and manual transmission.

hm. the 0-60 in the US brochure for both M Coupe and Roadster is listed at 4.9s.

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by wrh3

The motor in the 1M is the same N54 I had in my 335 with different software to get HP/TQ gains.....not even close to the S65 or S54, the last of the real M motors.

If they had put the S65 in the 1M, that would be something to talk about. No doubt the 1M chassis is M engineered but the motor hardware is not.

Which should make for a lot of laughs. Since the 335i debuted, people have belittled the cost/benefit of getting the M3, saying the advantages of the M3 were negligible since you can tune the turbo engine to S65 power levels and make a few suspension mods.

Now, in a situation where those arguments should have even more weight, we'll hear the reverse: that the fact that the 135i can be tuned to similar horsepower means nothing, because the brakes and suspension are "M-tuned" and every part that's the slightest bit different than the 135i is worth its weight in gold.

[Rick Hunter]

I was so excited until I heard about the engine. What a letdown! It was inevitable but it's sad to see the M division whoring themselves in every chassis just like AMG did with their brand. An "M" tuned N5x engine... that ain't an original M engine! And with a shameful rev limit too.

This iteration of the 1er really should be called the updated "M Sport" and not a true M car. Until they plop in a real M engine this car is a farce.

I had such high hopes for this car too, and would have considered it over an M3 if ONLY they had the S65 engine in it. I can't wait to see an enthusiast do the transplant.

[RBull]

100km = 62 mph

Originally Posted by Nikki

hm. the 0-60 in the US brochure for both M Coupe and Roadster is listed at 4.9s.

[ANILE8]

Originally Posted by Rick Hunter

I was so excited until I heard about the engine. What a letdown! It was inevitable but it's sad to see the M division whoring themselves in every chassis just like AMG did with their brand. An "M" tuned N5x engine... that ain't an original M engine! And with a shameful rev limit too.

This iteration of the 1er really should be called the updated "M Sport" and not a true M car. Until they plop in a real M engine this car is a farce.

I had such high hopes for this car too, and would have considered it over an M3 if ONLY they had the S65 engine in it. I can't wait to see an enthusiast do the transplant.

I agree, the engine is a let down to many hardcore BMW M enthusiasts.

Others will not mind as much as some I guess as it still raises the bar of performance over the 135i in many ways.

This seems the way BMW M department are heading with the new M3, M5 and M6 engines too.

It saddens me to see the traditional naturally aspirated high revving M power-plants die out.

[dazed^]

Originally Posted by RBull

100km = 62 mph

Still, the Euro M manual states 5.0 s for 0-100 Km/h, not 5.2.

On topic, the 1 M specs didn't seem very surprising to me (though I was surprised by its weight being lower than that of the 135i). I don't want one anyway.
I chose the Z, because it is just a different kind of car, mostly because it is a real two-seater I guess, and if I'd need the rear seats I'd go for something larger; a 3-series maybe. One with a very fuel-efficient 4cyl or something... leave the wild stuff for the roadster.

[tarheel91]

Originally Posted by Rick Hunter

I was so excited until I heard about the engine. What a letdown! It was inevitable but it's sad to see the M division whoring themselves in every chassis just like AMG did with their brand. An "M" tuned N5x engine... that ain't an original M engine! And with a shameful rev limit too.

This iteration of the 1er really should be called the updated "M Sport" and not a true M car. Until they plop in a real M engine this car is a farce.

I had such high hopes for this car too, and would have considered it over an M3 if ONLY they had the S65 engine in it. I can't wait to see an enthusiast do the transplant.

I think people magically forget the E36. The S52 is essentially a bored and stroked M52 with slightly more aggressive cams. To me it seems like the uniqueness of the M engines is directly related to BMWs involvement in motorsports. A lot of the "S" engines are reapplications of motors designed for racing. The S54 is practically a detuned race engine for the street. The S85 was built based on F1 engine technology. The S65 was built based on the S85. With BMW scaling back it's racing division because of the economy in recent years, it's not really surprising to see M engines becoming less and less unique. It's not something that you can really blame them for, either.

[chickdr]

The European E36 had a more aggressive 282hp motor. It was only the US which got the shaft. The S52 is a much different beast than the M52 in any event, thus why it has a different designation. They are not even bothering to call the 1M's engine anything else than a "M division tuned" N54...

[Nate2046]

Originally Posted by tarheel91

I think people magically forget the E36. The S52 is essentially a bored and stroked M52 with slightly more aggressive cams.

You hit the nail on the head and thats why many enthusiasts found the US version of the e36M to be a somewhat half-assed effort. I would put the 1M into the same category. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure its a cool car and a lot of fun but it ain't no real M car. It does however fit perfectly with the current direction of the M division as it morphs into AMG. And can somebody explain why they're limiting production of this car but building all the X5M's and X6M's they can churn out?

[Rick Hunter]

In this case, I would have accepted this car with open arms if they named it a tii instead of an M.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by dazed^

Still, the Euro M manual states 5.0 s for 0-100 Km/h, not 5.2.

North American car has slightly less power output due to cats in headers, than Euro cars. Canadian spec was 5.2s 0-100km/h, same car as US from a power output perspective.

[Eccentric]

Way too much speculation on this thread. Scott26 said that the engine would based off of the n54, not a direct swap with a chip, like most suspect. Also, the 1m is not a limited build. BMW said they would start by building 2,000 or so but would continue production, so long as it has buyers. And while the 1m's engine may be a torque-heavy "low-reving" engine, it still bangs up to 7krpm.. not exactly miniscule.

Stop bashing m for changing their formula. If anything this is a success. We get a manny tranny, great milage/c02 emissions, and genuine technological progress in a chassis similar to the size of an e46 m3.

[johanness]

Originally Posted by RBull

100km = 62 mph

So it takes a full 4/10ths to get to the TWO extra mph after already hitting 60mph? Lol.
Point is, the 0-60 (62) times in print are ALL underrated on our cars. Period.

Originally Posted by Eccentric

Way too much speculation on this thread. Scott26 said that the engine would based off of the n54, not a direct swap with a chip, like most suspect. Also, the 1m is not a limited build. BMW said they would start by building 2,000 or so but would continue production, so long as it has buyers. And while the 1m's engine may be a torque-heavy "low-reving" engine, it still bangs up to 7krpm.. not exactly miniscule.

Stop bashing m for changing their formula. If anything this is a success. We get a manny tranny, great milage/c02 emissions, and genuine technological progress in a chassis similar to the size of an e46 m3.

It's STILL not an M. Saying so just dilutes the brand, which is EXACTLY what BMW is doing. I totally agree with Rick Hunter. If they would've called it a tii, then it may have been tolerable.

And last I checked, it's okay to bash. ESPECIALLY when our personal rides are what amounts to the last of the TRUE M-division cars in their pure format. Thus it stings more and people are expressing their disgust in the path BMW is heading toward. It'll get the Vanilla-Car-Company-of-the-Year Award in a few years at the rate they're headed.

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by Eccentric

Stop bashing m for changing their formula. If anything this is a success.

They haven't really changed their formula; they've diluted it. As has been mentioned, they've done this sort of tuning before - they just didn't use the M brand for cars without M-division engines. I don't think there'd be ANY negative blowback if BMW had used the tii name (as they themselves floated a while back) or 135iM or 135i ZHP.

And they should expect to be bashed for changing their formula. They've spent decades and millions (maybe billions) building the brand as one thing, and 2-3 years changing it to something else and there shouldn't be backlash? Did New Coke not make it to Bavaria or something?

This, the X5M and X6M means they're going to be dealing with some strong negative reaction from the monster they created: BMW enthusiasts. Rather than expecting everyone to sit there quietly, accepting whatever they dish out with a polite flutter of applause, they (and thier defenders) need to ride it out. If the cars are actually good, people will come around eventually. Or die off.

[Rick Hunter]

The unfortunate thing is that BMW WILL get away with this shash only because their marketing direction will draw in more sales, mostly non-enthusiasts. You can't argue the amount of Joy one receives with a BMW. It's just that they aren't getting an ultimate driving machine anymore.

[tarheel91]

Originally Posted by Nate2046

You hit the nail on the head and thats why many enthusiasts found the US version of the e36M to be a somewhat half-assed effort. I would put the 1M into the same category. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure its a cool car and a lot of fun but it ain't no real M car. It does however fit perfectly with the current direction of the M division as it morphs into AMG. And can somebody explain why they're limiting production of this car but building all the X5M's and X6M's they can churn out?

You missed the point. The M division does not have the resources to make a new engine for each M car. There are several situations in the past where they've simply modified a "normal" engine to produce an M engine (i.e. they can't make a brand spanking new engine just because the S50 doesn't meet emissions in the US). Most of their "unique" engines are simply street applications of race engines. With a scaled back racing operation, it's not hard to see why the M division isn't releasing cars with entirely unique engines left and right. The engines they start with aren't half bad in the first place. I really don't think everyone really needs to complain as much as they do. Hell, the McLaren F1's engine originally started out as a M73.

@chickdr: The S52 has a 20% boost in power versus a 14% increase in displacement compared to the M52. There really isn't much else going on. As I said before, just a few changes. A more aggressive cam and an adjusted lubrication system. That's it.

[Rick Hunter]

BMW doesn't HAVE to produce a new M engine for each M car. I think the problem is that they HAVE a perfectly good M engine that is in the M3 that they aren't using in the 1er. Use that in the 1er if you're too cheap to develop a new engine (or chop off a couple of cylinders to make it 6 cyl, whatever)... that would still be purist M. The fact that they are weaseling their way out of the S65 in a 1er to prevent cannibalism to their beloved M3 is utter utter naff.

Hell... look at what they did with our Z4Ms... plopped in the S54 engine. Parts bin special? Yup. Cheaped out? Yup. Winning formula? Yup. Still a pure M.

[ANILE8]

Originally Posted by Rick Hunter

BMW doesn't HAVE to produce a new M engine for each M car. I think the problem is that they HAVE a perfectly good M engine that is in the M3 that they aren't using in the 1er. Use that in the 1er if you're too cheap to develop a new engine (or chop off a couple of cylinders to make it 6 cyl, whatever)... that would still be purist M. The fact that they are weaseling their way out of the S65 in a 1er to prevent cannibalism to their beloved M3 is utter utter naff.

Hell... look at what they did with our Z4Ms... plopped in the S54 engine. Parts bin special? Yup. Cheaped out? Yup. Winning formula? Yup. Still a pure M.

Very good point.

Not that I would buy a 1M anyway even if it did have the S65 because I love my Z4-MC. Just saying the N54 engine in the 1M is a real let down.

If I was in the market for something new I could never buy a performance vehicle with a turbo engine.

No high revving naturally aspirated engine = NO INTEREST FROM ME.

[tarheel91]

Originally Posted by Rick Hunter

BMW doesn't HAVE to produce a new M engine for each M car. I think the problem is that they HAVE a perfectly good M engine that is in the M3 that they aren't using in the 1er. Use that in the 1er if you're too cheap to develop a new engine (or chop off a couple of cylinders to make it 6 cyl, whatever)... that would still be purist M. The fact that they are weaseling their way out of the S65 in a 1er to prevent cannibalism to their beloved M3 is utter utter naff.

Hell... look at what they did with our Z4Ms... plopped in the S54 engine. Parts bin special? Yup. Cheaped out? Yup. Winning formula? Yup. Still a pure M.

Right, because using a V6 makes perfect sense. Talk about brand dilution. You're answering your own question without even realizing it. What SHOULD they have done? Dropping the same engine in a downmarket car that weighs less isn't logical, so the V8 was out of the question. So the least powerful M engine isn't available. The S54 was fully exploited in the E46 M3, and that's not going to cut it in something that weighs the same as an E46 M3. What has ///M normally done in the past? Modify a "normal" engine to bring it more in line with ///M expectations. However, the changes you're looking for would lead to a car MORE powerful than the M3. Upgraded internals + much more boost on an engine that is more like 320-330hp in the 135i and regularly sees M3 level power with just a chip would be overkill.

The problem I have with this whole outrage is most people simply aren't visualizing it right. There's no black and white line that marks "regular" engines vs. "performance" engines. It's a spectrum of variables that influence how an engine behaves. No, the N54 did not start out its life as an M engine, but it was an engine built with power in mind.

P.S. The Z4 has always shared a lot with the 3 series. It makes sense for it to get the 3 series engine, suspension, etc.