Is it ok to mount PS2's inside out?

[dschultz]

My front tires took a beating at my last track weekend. I'd like to get at least one more track weekend out of them. I've read various opinions on whether PS2s can/should be mounted inside out to even out tread wear. Does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks

[DRedman45]

Correct me if I'm wrong but ps2's are asymmetric, so you can rotate left and right

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by dschultz

My front tires took a beating at my last track weekend. I'd like to get at least one more track weekend out of them. I've read various opinions on whether PS2s can/should be mounted inside out to even out tread wear. Does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks

As they say you can do anything , but sometimes you should not . The PS2 like the newer /better ( you should switch by the way) PSS are bicompound tires . They have an outer tread block that is a dry compound / design and an inner tread block that is a wet compound/design . You can imagine the negative impact of putting the performance portion of the tire away from the contact patch in a turn . If you have outside wear on just one side , you can rotate your wheels left to right , but if all are worn on the outside edge , it's time for new tires . Also you need to run more negative camber to prevent this in the future .
George

[nekky]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

As they say you can do anything , but sometimes you should not . The PS2 like the newer /better ( you should switch by the way) PSS are bicompound tires . They have an outer tread block that is a dry compound / design and an inner tread block that is a wet compound/design . You can imagine the negative impact of putting the performance portion of the tire away from the contact patch in a turn . If you have outside wear on just one side , you can rotate your wheels left to right , but if all are worn on the outside edge , it's time for new tires . Also you need to run more negative camber to prevent this in the future .
George

George knows

[dschultz]

Agreed. I should mention that when I got the car it had PS2s all around, but the rears were shot while the fronts were fresh. I didn't want to switch to PSSs on just one axle so replaced the rears with new PS2s. At the time I wasn't planning on tracking the car (very much). Well, that has changed and while I will be dialing in more neg camber before my next event the damage is done. Will 2.5 deg prevent much more outside wear on these tires?

Best option would probably be dedicated track tires since the Michelins are still healthy for street, but I'm not sure they can handle another track weekend without cording the outside shoulders, and I have to drive home on them. When I bought this car I told my wife and myself that I wouldn't collect stacks of wheels, tires, and other track paraphernalia. This was just going to be a fun weekend car that wouldn't see the track. Hmmm... I guess it's off to tirerack I go!

[Finnegan]

-2.5 will help considerably, easily done with camber washers (Turner, about 20 bucks).

I do not recommend PSS for hard track work. RS-3s or Dunlop Direzza ZIIs are much more suited to the track use IMO.

I ran the new Dunlops last weekend on my E36 and was quite impressed. No greasiness, up to speed quickly, very predictable and held up great! I found they ran best at 37-38 hot (I started the day at 30 cold) and adjusted through the days as it got warmer. I always liked the old Star Specs (used on my Z4M); these are better.

[dschultz]

Thanks. I've already ordered the Turner washers. I assume that was you I was talking with at Thunderhill last weekend? Thanks for the tips! I think I'll just bite the bullet and order some apex wheels for the track. No point in screwing around anymore.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by dschultz

Agreed. I should mention that when I got the car it had PS2s all around, but the rears were shot while the fronts were fresh. I didn't want to switch to PSSs on just one axle so replaced the rears with new PS2s. At the time I wasn't planning on tracking the car (very much). Well, that has changed and while I will be dialing in more neg camber before my next event the damage is done. Will 2.5 deg prevent much more outside wear on these tires?

Best option would probably be dedicated track tires since the Michelins are still healthy for street, but I'm not sure they can handle another track weekend without cording the outside shoulders, and I have to drive home on them. When I bought this car I told my wife and myself that I wouldn't collect stacks of wheels, tires, and other track paraphernalia. This was just going to be a fun weekend car that wouldn't see the track. Hmmm... I guess it's off to tirerack I go!

If you are going to track a lot , I would def get a set of track wheels and tires . Apex is a great choice , I have a set of EC-7's 18x9 and 18 x10 with 265/285 Hankook TD's . I strongly recommend the TD's , best DOT-R I have ever used and very close to the performance of a Hoosier R6 while not heat cycling out and lasting much longer . They also are not grip then gone totes and are a really very communicative about reaching their limit, both by feel and noise ( they do make a little noise at the limit ).Camber wise , optimal front camber for the Z4M is in the 3.0-3.5 range for even track wear and maximal performance with rear camber at around 2 . If you plan on doing coilovers I would go ahead and get camber plates instead of washers bc of clearance issues with springs if you go with coil overs as well a being able to achieve more neg camber . In the end it depends on being honest with yourself about what you plan in doing with your car as far as track use . If you are going to do 10+ days a year the camber plates will pay for themselves very quickly , by extending you're tire life . As far a extreme summer tires( if you decide against track wheels ) , the RE-11a , Dunlop star spec 2, , BFG rival , RS3 are all better options than the PSS for track use . The PSS is the best all around tire available currently but it does not hold up to hard track use .
George

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by dschultz

Thanks. I've already ordered the Turner washers. I assume that was you I was talking with at Thunderhill last weekend? Thanks for the tips! I think I'll just bite the bullet and order some apex wheels for the track. No point in screwing around anymore.

+1 on the post above. I'll as the camber washers are still a good idea even with plates as getting -3.5 with some coils still means using those plus washers. In any case you can use them as a path forward.

From what I saw last weekend tires plus alignment are the priorities now, and other considerations such as coils can come a little further on.

And Yeah, that's me! (Ron)

Definitely wheels and tires. Can't say enough good things about those new Dunlops....

Use two washers and get it set for street at around -1.7--1.8. 1/16th total toe-in. Mark the strut nuts. Then move them all the way inward for track days. That will get you -2.5 to -2.7 and a bit of toe-out. Tire wear will vastly improve as will front grip. (Plan on adjusting a bit since it changes the dynamics--in a good way--of the car.)

Let me know when you plan to be there again.

[Finnegan]

Good to know about the Hankook TD as well. Think I may be moving up to those after this set goes.

[z4msteve]

I would not at all recommend going to an R-Compound tire unless you are already very experienced at the track. The lack of feedback compared to a street tire makes them less predictable, and R-Comps also have the added effect of covering-up bad driving with extra grip.

You're far better off getting some good time in on a tire like the Hankook RS3 or Nitto NT-05, then transitioning to an R-Compound later.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by z4msteve

I would not at all recommend going to an R-Compound tire unless you are already very experienced at the track. The lack of feedback compared to a street tire makes them less predictable, and R-Comps also have the added effect of covering-up bad driving with extra grip.

You're far better off getting some good time in on a tire like the Hankook RS3 or Nitto NT-05, then transitioning to an R-Compound later.

The Hankook TD is the first DOT-R I've driven where I would disagree with you're feedback statement , it even makes noise at the limit and has reasonable grip when it's cold out . It's absolute grip isn't that much more than a fresh pair of heat cycled RS3's , it just maintains it for the entire session , and lasts much longer , while having a ton more feedback from it's very stiff sidewalls . It comes in two compounds , hard and soft . The hard compound is the one I an referring to and rec . The soft compound acts like an R6 and has holy hell levels of grip but wears out fast . I agree with not using slicks , but there is little downside to using the TD . Yes the grip will be higher than an extreme summer but with the new ones being so good the main difference is the stability over a 20 lap session vs the extreme summers that get too hot then become greasy . The Hankook TD is a whole new animal and suggest everyone try a set out.
George