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      05-17-2013, 01:59 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfanatic325 View Post
I saw significant gains on the dyno when I got the AA tune....
You are running an uncatted Supersprint section 1 and hence have a lot less back pressure than my full OE catted section 1. The header tune may be optimized for that.

AA is sending me a software update that is a bit conserative past 7000rpm and we hope that will alleviate the dip. Updates to follow.
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      05-17-2013, 03:08 PM   #24
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Looking forward to the updates!
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      05-17-2013, 06:40 PM   #25
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The gains I'm referring to were software tune-only gains, as compared to stock baseline (albeit my baseline was muffler-less). Even if going muffler-less is worth 5rwhp (which is highly unlikely), I recall still having 14rwhp gain. Haven't taken a close look at my old dyno since it's been a while since I got the tune originally, but that's what I recall.
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      05-17-2013, 06:52 PM   #26
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I just got my car back a couple of days ago with some work done and AA tune (Intake, Header and exhaust). I couldn't turn down the offer since my AA dealer said "Drive with it, if you don't like it, I give you your money back. Plus, I get it to you for cheap!" I said go ahead and they got it done in the same afternoon.

I unplugged the battery overnight and reset the throttle. 200+km so far.

pal is right! the drivability is much MUCH improved. There is definitely more torque that is useable on the street. I felt the differences as driving off the parking lot. Some streets that I drove everyday felt different in power, shift point and rpm. It's less twitchy in climbing the rpm and it seems to rev a bit quicker.

I'm happy with the tune. The power delivery is so much smoother now and there's more torque around 2k~3.2k range. I just need to drive it more to have the ECU to adapt to the tune. (I have the 7100 rpm drop off, too when I was pulling all the way to redline)

Track day this summer, I'll know more after those sessions. All I can say right now: AA tune is smooth and more torque for the street.

Is it money well spent? YES! I feel better driving it, I want to drive it more and it's more fun at cruising speed.
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      05-17-2013, 09:56 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeD4Mr View Post
The power delivery is so much smoother now and there's more torque around 2k~3.2k range. I just need to drive it more to have the ECU to adapt to the tune. (I have the 7100 rpm drop off, too when I was pulling all the way to redline)
We will get to the bottom of the 7100 rpm dip with AA's help. Lets hope the latest changes they sent me help alleviate the dip and make some more power over stock.

I just drove 260 miles to Watkins Glen and can most definitely say the much smoother throttle is a pleasure to drive. Lets get the dip sorted and pick up a few additional hp and this will be a great tune.

mfanatic - Did you get the flash BEFORE you de-catted section two?
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      05-17-2013, 10:18 PM   #28
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      05-18-2013, 01:46 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pal View Post
mfanatic - Did you get the flash BEFORE you de-catted section two?
Yes sir, when my car was bone stock. Just revisited my original thread:
http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=449998

I got peak of 27rwhp gain along with peak 3rwtq gain just from the tune alone. Again, my baseline was without mufflers, but I seriously doubt they affected the results much if any. As you can see from my dynos, I also had the slight dip just past 7000 rpm. But it seems that OEM tune also did the same thing according to my baseline.
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      05-18-2013, 04:59 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pal View Post
We will get to the bottom of the 7100 rpm dip with AA's help. Lets hope the latest changes they sent me help alleviate the dip and make some more power over stock.
From looking at the dyno plots of many different posters on this forum, the dip and rebound in the torque/HP plots at around 7,100 - 7,600rpm seems to occur for all, irrespective of cars being run OEM or with mods. I would suggest that this is possibly a result of resonant effects, specific to the Z4M air intake, that occur from the velocity of air when filling the cylinders at an engine speed of around 7,100rpm. Has anyone got dyno plots of the Z4M with Macht Schnell silicone elbow, GruppeM or Macht Scnell/GruppeM combination for comparison?

Last edited by exdos; 05-18-2013 at 05:11 AM..
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      05-18-2013, 11:03 AM   #31
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Yeah, I'm glad to see that it isn't just my car. Does the Macht Schnell tube for the e46m3 fit the z4m?

Quote:
Originally Posted by exdos View Post
From looking at the dyno plots of many different posters on this forum, the dip and rebound in the torque/HP plots at around 7,100 - 7,600rpm seems to occur for all, irrespective of cars being run OEM or with mods. I would suggest that this is possibly a result of resonant effects, specific to the Z4M air intake, that occur from the velocity of air when filling the cylinders at an engine speed of around 7,100rpm. Has anyone got dyno plots of the Z4M with Macht Schnell silicone elbow, GruppeM or Macht Scnell/GruppeM combination for comparison?
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      05-18-2013, 07:47 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exdos View Post
From looking at the dyno plots of many different posters on this forum, the dip and rebound in the torque/HP plots at around 7,100 - 7,600rpm seems to occur for all, irrespective of cars being run OEM or with mods. I would suggest that this is possibly a result of resonant effects, specific to the Z4M air intake, that occur from the velocity of air when filling the cylinders at an engine speed of around 7,100rpm.
Interesting thought. I have a stock airbox with a K&N panel filter and the charcoal filter still in place. I wonder if the charcoal filter does not flow enough air at high rpms? I think I have an e46 silicone elbow sitting around somewhere in the garage but never got around to installing it as it does not have the fitting for the vaccum line on the Z4M. I will look into it again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfanatic325
my baseline was without mufflers, but I seriously doubt they affected the results much if any. As you can see from my dynos, I also had the slight dip just past 7000 rpm. But it seems that OEM tune also did the same thing according to my baseline.
In the interest of this analysis (no offense intended at all), do you happen to know if your before and after were adjusted to the same standard to account for pressure, temperature and humidity differences between the two runs?
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      05-19-2013, 12:15 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pal View Post
In the interest of this analysis (no offense intended at all), do you happen to know if your before and after were adjusted to the same standard to account for pressure, temperature and humidity differences between the two runs?
No offense taken. Yes sir, to the best of my knowledge, the operator of the dyno is a tuning guru and runs his dyno to the most unbiased degree.
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      05-19-2013, 03:37 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pal View Post
I wonder if the charcoal filter does not flow enough air at high rpms?
If the cause of the dip were as a consequence of any restriction in the intake system, then the rebound in performance at around 7600rpm would be unlikely to occur.
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      05-19-2013, 09:34 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exdos View Post
If the cause of the dip were as a consequence of any restriction in the intake system, then the rebound in performance at around 7600rpm would be unlikely to occur.
Agreed. And looking at my other dyno run, it appears that the drop is at 7400'ish rpms.

I spent the weekend at Watkins Glen and the flash did not have any hiccups and I enjoyed the smoothness and the slightly better low end and mid range torque. And while my lap times dropped from the last time I was here, the top speeds on the back straight did not go up. I tried new lines and was definitely pushing the car like never before with higher slip angles and earlier on throttle out of turns and I think the smooth and linear throttle response from the AA tune played a small part in that

Here is one of my better recorded laps - Harry's Laptimer on TomTom GPS cradle and connected via WiFi to Elm CAN WLAN II for rpm signal. It was recorded at 720p on a iPhone 4S (my channel is http://www.youtube.com/mistralvr6).



Got home a couple of hours ago and reflashed the car with the updated file from AA. Will report back with changes and review.
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      05-23-2013, 09:45 AM   #36
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Initial impressions on the updated flash after about 150 miles of driving is that super smooth throttle feel is gone and replaced with a feel closer to stock. That being said, the throttle 'curve' is smoother and more linear than stock. So what I am am trying to say is that the smooth and linear functionality is still there but not the feel. I am fine with this as long as it makes power.

From a seat of the pants, the updated software is at least as torquey as the first AA one. I would almost say it feels stronger- though that could be placebo given the feel difference.

Pocono Long course tomorrow and dyno next week sometime.
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      05-23-2013, 11:27 AM   #37
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When I first got mine, I didn't feel too much of a difference--albeit I was really trying hard to be as unbiased as possible and not allow placebo effect to take over.
However, the more I drove the car on the street and the track, the ECU started to learn and fully adapt. That's when I finally went in for my dyno and was pleasantly surprised by the numbers
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      05-26-2013, 08:22 AM   #38
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Spent Friday at Pocono Int'l Raceway running the Long Course-Single Infield configuration. This involves using NASCAR turns 1 and 2 and long straights where 4th can be redlined twice per lap and can get into 5th between 1 and 2. The AA tune was flawless- smooth and linear and the behavior between 7000-8000rpm feels more like stock where the rate of acceleration seems to slow down between 7000-7400'ish and then picks up urgency and thr tach wants to run to 8000 quick.

Car should have adapted as well as I was using about 5gals per session now to find a day to dyno to see what the updated flash has done
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      05-26-2013, 01:24 PM   #39
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Yeah, that should be plenty of adapting for the ECU. You should yield more gains this time on the dyno--as compared to stock baseline that is
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      05-26-2013, 02:39 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfanatic325
Yeah, that should be plenty of adapting for the ECU. You should yield more gains this time on the dyno--as compared to stock baseline that is
You are an optimistic person. All I am hoping for is keeping the gains under 5600 rpms and making more than my baseline over that. Fingers crossed; I will try and hit the dyno next week.
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      05-26-2013, 03:53 PM   #41
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Quote:
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You are an optimistic person. All I am hoping for is keeping the gains under 5600 rpms and making more than my baseline over that. Fingers crossed; I will try and hit the dyno next week.
Hah well I'm basing it off of my own personal experience. I'm a firm believer in that if my car can generate certain gains, other cars should be able to as well.
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      05-26-2013, 04:38 PM   #42
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pal,

After your track day, do you prefer the 1st re-flash which you had a few hundred miles on it and dyno'ed or your current re-flash?

I'm talking with AA next week to see my options on switching to the updated one if you think is a better re-flash..

thanks for your validation on performance and dyno map. I should put mine on dyno-pack sometime soon..

TIA,
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      05-27-2013, 08:40 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeD4Mr View Post
After your track day, do you prefer the 1st re-flash which you had a few hundred miles on it and dyno'ed or your current re-flash?

I'm talking with AA next week to see my options on switching to the updated one if you think is a better re-flash..
I did 2 track days at the Glen on the first AA flash and the car was great below 7100 rpm but felt a bit lazy over that.

The updated flash felt more eager over 7100 rpm and did not appear to have any loss below that. The only difference was in the feel - it did not feel as smooth as the first flash but was still more linear than stock.

If the car makes power over stock with the new flash, I would most definitely recommend the updated flash. If it does better than the first flash, then again I would recommend the updated flash. If it loses some power like the first flash but no worse, then I would stay stock - but that's just me. The flash is $$ and we all want some quantifiable gains besides just drivability improvements.

That being said, the drivability improvements are most definitely there on both the flashes and if you don't drive over 7000 rpm too often, then the first flash was noticeably smoother and made some more torque up to 5600 rpm. But both the flashes drive better than stock and depending upon your situation, this may be enough to make it worth your while.

Please stay tuned for dyno results as that will tell the final story. Also, keep in mind that I have headers with stock section 2 cats, stock section 3 x-pipe and Remus cans. According to AA, they had tuned the VANOS parameters for headers but went a bit aggressive over 7000 rpm and think my car had more back pressure than they expected for a header car; they dialed that back some and it most definitely changed the behavior.
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      05-27-2013, 11:46 AM   #44
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By the way, headers don't count as "section 1". They are their own section.

The actual section 1 is where your secondary catalytic converters are (aka S-pipe).
And section 2 is also known as the X-pipe.
Then the muffler cannisters are its own section as well.

So it goes: headers -> section 1 -> section 2 -> muffler cans; respectively from front to back of car.
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